Clay Lowery
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I'm just going to go with the Apogee Zephyr since it is a well covered rocket. In the future I am probably going to get a loc 4
What is the best L1 Cert rocket?
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I have the Fusion Flex a really hard look but the website description of the rocket turned me off of it. Quotes like these fly in the face of the bulk of the advice I've read or heard re L1 certifying:
"Using this simple laser-cut plywood mount allows the use of an altimeter to control your parachute for a PERFECT deployment every time! Why "guess" with motor ejection?"
"It's not as difficult as you may think"
"Low and Slow? We don't think so!"
Don't get me wrong - some people may like the idea of their L1 being a challenge, or may just really love the rocket. If that's your jam, go build it! It wasn't for me though. That said - conceptually it's very similar to what I've been designing in my head - a flexible platform with highly modular, swappable parts that allow you to change mission or do repairs quickly and easily. It's a very cool rocket.
And exactly why I bought one a couple of days ago. See my thread from Wednesday: https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/loc-4-iris-question.173995/
The rocket is intended to be dual use; L1 and L2. The payload/electronics bay are optional. I like that this kit has these options. I'm very unlikely to dual deploy on my L1, but am far more likely to on my L2 flight. Low and slow get harder as the level increases. Also, Scott's marketing is hyperbolic - the man really likes rockets that touch the stars. I don't mean to speak for him, but I imagine he also really like fast cars and loud motorcycles.
I've built a few SBR kits, and they are easy builds. What makes you think this is a difficult rocket to construct? Flexibility and swapable parts increase difficulty.
Generally I think it's best to build a rocket for each level. However, I'm very unlike to launch high power more than once a year (3 kids, work, old house, old parents, etc), hence my personal interest in a multi-use high power bird.
I've searched around a bit, but I can't find a sim file for the Diablo. OpenRocket preferred, .rkt of course will work. Anyone know where to find one? I'm surprised SBR doesn't provide them.asking "what's the best?" is always going to get you different subjective, opinionated answers, on any subject. I just finished a 4" SBR Diablo, it has the best instructions in the business, easily transported in a small car, cool looking design and brilliant graphics, 38mm and 29mm capable, and.....affordable. That's my 2 cents worth.
https://www.fusionrocket.biz/store-2/?model_number=DIA1
Wouldn't mind a file for the Fusion, either.
Hans.
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I was thinking about the whole "What's the best rocket" fiasco during lunch. If you don't mind the analogy, I think this is because people don't know what they want. It's the old 'Buy a Miata, because it's a track car *AND* you can use it as your daily driver", when in reality, these are two very different things. And by the time you modify the Miata to be a decent track car, you've ruined it as your commuter car because the stiffer suspension now allows you to feel every pothole like it was a moon-crater.
L1 and L2 are different, and attempting to use the same rocket for both is likely to cause you trouble. Anything light enough for L1 is going to go too high on an L2, and then you're going to be travelling 40 miles to retrieve your rocket. I'm a total noob, and even I can figure this out.
There's a post in LPR about being bummed when you lose a rocket... Well, you're going to be more bummed when you lose your $500 rocket (rocket cost, shipping, construction materials and other expenses). I think keeping to the minimum requirements of each Cert is the key to success, and the simpler it is, the less chance of something going wrong. There's some youtube video about a guy who built a rocket called "lumeier" or something like that, and he overdid it, and failed his cert attempt.
I consider myself a dum-dum, but I'm smart enough to try and learn from other people's mistakes. (hrmmm. maybe I should make that my signature here).
Titan II
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This is my choice (without much research) for a perfect L1 rocket.
https://www.fusionrocket.biz/store-2/?model_number=FUS3
Why this one? It's a 3" tube, not a 4". This makes it lighter and less draggy, meaning I can test fly with 29mm motors, heck a 29mm adapter is included with the kit. When I go for the L1, I put in the smallest L1 engine, and it should still come back without a lot of chasing. The fins are ABOVE the body tube, so hopefully no cracked fins on landing. This is about as KISS as you can get.
https://www.fusionrocket.biz/store-2/?model_number=FUS3
Why this one? It's a 3" tube, not a 4". This makes it lighter and less draggy, meaning I can test fly with 29mm motors, heck a 29mm adapter is included with the kit. When I go for the L1, I put in the smallest L1 engine, and it should still come back without a lot of chasing. The fins are ABOVE the body tube, so hopefully no cracked fins on landing. This is about as KISS as you can get.
I've been looking at the LOC IV as well, but one aggravating thing about it is that trying to fly it on an F motor and AT 29/40-120 case is that all the appropriate high thrust Fs are Hazmat. So, being cheap, this restricts me to Gs for club meets. Which isn't too bad overall, I guess.
Hans.
F67W? It's single use and therefore more expensive, but it's got high thrust and is non-haz.
Puzzling.... I see that motor on Apogee's website, but can't find it anywhere at Aerotech.
Hans.
Unfortunately, that link goes to a Facebook page. Which I absolutely will not use. I'll try a direct email.
Hans.
DAllen
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Titan II
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Didn't think about using the link. I would not go there either. I was focused on doing what the the last sentence mentions. Hope you get it.
.ork and .rkt files available for Fusion, Thor, and Diablo.... send us a message and we'll send you a file!
Thanks. When you buy a new car, you can go out for a demo ride. OpenRocket is the closest thing we have to a demo, short of watching someone else fly theirs!
Hans.
We're on the same page here. I also like the flexibility, very much! I just want my cert rockets to be painfully simple and boring, so I can get the cert and thus get what I really want, which is access to more thrust, which opens the door to all of the fun gizmos I want to play with in a rocket.The rocket is intended to be dual use; L1 and L2. The payload/electronics bay are optional. I like that this kit has these options. I'm very unlikely to dual deploy on my L1, but am far more likely to on my L2 flight. Low and slow get harder as the level increases. Also, Scott's marketing is hyperbolic - the man really likes rockets that touch the stars. I don't mean to speak for him, but I imagine he also really like fast cars and loud motorcycles.
It's honestly probably not all that complicated. I looked for an instruction sheet on their website but didn't find it (admittedly I didn't look TOO hard...) But any additional point of complexity or failure is a risk, and specifically for my cert flights, I'm looking to minimize that. YMMV, and you'll never see me judge someone for taking a different approach (so long as it's safe to others).
BTW, have you checked out the 3" FusionX? I NEED that bird.
AeroTech is going through some site updates. Currently it is in the Enerjet tab, 29x83mm motors.
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Use a Jolly Logic Chute Release but not without actually using it and getting comfortable with it on bunch of mid-power flights.
Drag and weight impact the thrust needed. Less drag and less weight means you can use lower thrust engines, but on higher thrust engines the rocket will go higher.
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You don't necessarily need bigger rockets just to play with more gizmos. 2.1"-3" rockets with G-Hs or Is can give you a really good weight budget; but it also depends on the altitude you wish to attain, our velocity/acceleration targets too.
Yes, I just found it moments before you posted. AT has their various motors with similar specs spread out all over...
Hans.
If you're looking for performance info, use ThrustCurve.org
FWIW, if you look at the photo of the F67, it shows the motor labeled as "EconMax" with an "EnerJet" sticker attached to the outside of the package. So they apparently are not even sure what to call it.
Hans.
Gary confirmed that they’re in the middle of rebranding. Enerjet by AeroTech will be the line of mid-power stuff going forward.
All this is happening because they acquired Quest recently and made that their low-power line. They also went all-in with composites, no more black powder once all the supply of MicroMaxx is used up.
I just hope they consolidate the listings. They have 24mm and 29mm in both the High power and Mid power sections. Have to look all over to find stuff.
Hans.
Based on my observations, this appears to be ongoing. Web stuff is hard.
You mean like rocket science?
I'm finding it easier to view a decently sorted listing of Aerotech /Enerjet motors by visiting the Apogee website. You can customize the columns in the listing to include things like max thrust, etc. and sort on any of the columns. Very handy. I leave the 24mm and 29mm pages open on my browser all the time.
Hans.
Hans.
Have you tried thrustcurve?
Yes, it's very useful. But I find it easier to view the entire product line all at once on Apogee. When you find something interesting, you can easily drill down to get more detailed info. As expensive as big, and even mid motors are, Thrustcurve is good to verify that you are making the right choice. It's to bad much of Apogee's pricing is actually above retail, though. Still, I do order from him occasionally.
Hans.
https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket_Motors/29mm_Motors
Scroll down to the customizable chart at the bottom. That's where I start my selection process. Be sure to add columns of whatever info interests you. Similar charts for other motor sizes, of course.
Hans.
Scroll down to the customizable chart at the bottom. That's where I start my selection process. Be sure to add columns of whatever info interests you. Similar charts for other motor sizes, of course.
Hans.
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