Finally pulled the trigger for L1

[Ron Soto]

Early this morning after doing probably waaay to much research over the last couple of weeks for my L1 Cert., i pulled the trigger on the Zephyr, H100 AT DMS, Jolly Logic Alt. 2, Jolly Logic Chute Release.

As for my second rocket, i was thinking of either the mega initiator w/ebay, or the peringuene Thoughts on that?

r-

 

[Handeman]

Congrats on starting the journey. The Zephyr will be a good kit for the L1 cert.

As for a second rocket, what is your goal with the second one? Both are DD so I'm assuming that is at least one of the goals.

You might want to wait to decide until you've had a few flights with the Zephyr. Fly it on a large H and a low or middle I motor to get a feel for altitudes you will get. What you learn at each cert level is the power of the motors and flying to higher altitudes. You can run sims all day and get altitude estimates, but until you actually fly the motors, you won't really appreciate the power or what those altitude estimates really mean. If the largest motors you've flow are 120 Ns G motors in Hobbyline cases, a full I motor is more than 6 times that. Which doesn't really mean much until you fly one and recover it on your field.

The two kits you mentioned for a second rocket are both 4" like the Zephyr but with av-bays, so they will be heavier and won't get as high on the same motors that the Zephyr will.

If you find the altitudes acceptable with mid to large I motors in the Zephyr and want to get a little higher, you might want to consider a smaller diameter DD rocket with 38mm MMT.
If your field can handle 5K - 6K DD flights, you might want to go with a LazerLoc 223, or a Binder Design 3" Excel with Dual Deploy, or if you want to try a fiberglass kit, the 2.2" or 2.6" Madcow fiberglass DD kits are all good as are the Wildman kits like the INTIMIDATOR 2.6-38MMT.

Lots and lots of choices, but getting some experience flying H & I motors will give you a better outlook on what you want to do with the second, third, etc. rockets.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Ron Soto]

Congrats on starting the journey. The Zephyr will be a good kit for the L1 cert.

As for a second rocket, what is your goal with the second one? Both are DD so I'm assuming that is at least one of the goals.

You might want to wait to decide until you've had a few flights with the Zephyr. Fly it on a large H and a low or middle I motor to get a feel for altitudes you will get. What you learn at each cert level is the power of the motors and flying to higher altitudes. You can run sims all day and get altitude estimates, but until you actually fly the motors, you won't really appreciate the power or what those altitude estimates really mean. If the largest motors you've flow are 120 Ns G motors in Hobbyline cases, a full I motor is more than 6 times that. Which doesn't really mean much until you fly one and recover it on your field.

The two kits you mentioned for a second rocket are both 4" like the Zephyr but with av-bays, so they will be heavier and won't get as high on the same motors that the Zephyr will.

If you find the altitudes acceptable with mid to large I motors in the Zephyr and want to get a little higher, you might want to consider a smaller diameter DD rocket with 38mm MMT.
If your field can handle 5K - 6K DD flights, you might want to go with a LazerLoc 223, or a Binder Design 3" Excel with Dual Deploy, or if you want to try a fiberglass kit, the 2.2" or 2.6" Madcow fiberglass DD kits are all good as are the Wildman kits like the INTIMIDATOR 2.6-38MMT.

Lots and lots of choices, but getting some experience flying H & I motors will give you a better outlook on what you want to do with the second, third, etc. rockets.

Good luck and have fun.

Jeff... thanks for the well thought out reply. with this information i can ditch the second rocket, and DD the zephyr. and research more....

currently i have 2 goals. the first is to get my L1 cert. and the second is to multi-stage (2) to 10,000 and recover. i was doing this back in the 80's with fuse and electronics' for ignition. at that time i was testing H's to G's, using scratch-built. (there was significant testing as no electronics or simulator was around then (rocksim/openrocket)).

anywho, not sure what it is with multi-staging.. but i think it's the complexity of adding more, and getting it right.

thanks again,

ron-

 

[cwbullet]

Early this morning after doing probably waaay to much research over the last couple of weeks for my L1 Cert., i pulled the trigger on the Zephyr, H100 AT DMS, Jolly Logic Alt. 2, Jolly Logic Chute Release.

As for my second rocket, i was thinking of either the mega initiator w/ebay, or the peringuene Thoughts on that?

r-

Good luck. I would definitely do a test launch with the Jolly logic if you have never used one.

 

[Ron Soto]

Good luck. I would definitely do a test launch with the Jolly logic if you have never used one.

in addition to the H motor, i also bought 2 G80's. so i'll be testing with those first.
r-

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Early this morning after doing probably waaay to much research over the last couple of weeks for my L1 Cert., i pulled the trigger on the Zephyr, H100 AT DMS, Jolly Logic Alt. 2, Jolly Logic Chute Release.

You might want to consider a tracker. You can borrow one of mine or the club has some and a receiver. I just tape it to the apogee shock cord.

 

[Ron Soto]

You might want to consider a tracker. You can borrow one of mine or the club has some and a receiver. I just tape it to the apogee shock cord.

i didn't think of that.. sheesh! i'm in on the tracker.. Thank you.

 

[Ron Soto]

Well.... Since Monday the 25th.... the FLU! sheesh, both my wife and i have literally been so sick that we have been in bed. we both went to a doc-in-a-box (me via VA) and was sent home with a bag full of meds. so today i'm up with no energy.

I received my order from Apogee. Zephyr, RMS DDT, and a 38mm AeroPack motor retainer (wish i got the tail-cone thou..) yesterday afternoon. motors are on there way from BSA. I've taken the bagged pieces and parts out of the box, but not gonna even try anything until tomorrow due to my energy level being so low. Apogee sent me a Rocket Buildings 101 on a cd... but my laptop does not have a cd player/reader..

hopefully everyone is having a great holiday season, and will have a great new year!

r-

 

[86mustang408w]

Great Choice! I've watched many get their L1's with this. It also fly's well on G80s, so you can do some shakedowns first. Especially with the release, you may not need it but get some practice with it. I used my Big Daddy and a D12-3 for its first flight, main set at 100ft. I've seen them go on up on G motors to J's. An H100 would be nice for that, what field do you have in mind?

A good, reliable tracker would be a Marco Polo drone tracker. But they only have a distance of 2 miles, I'm using one for my L2. So you'll be fine, I really like Featherweight GPS trackers as the next step up for me. I brought a chute release too but chose not to use it that day for my L1. Wasnt needed.

One suggestion is to cut off the nosecone shoulder and install a bulkhead/eye bolt. Also, sand down the tubes too, I like tobise thin CA on the top of thr forward airframe, and then down inside to about 2", then use a cotton swap and smear it all over. It really helps prevent a zipper. Make a launch day check list too, an remember to add the vent holes in the airframe, those nosecones will pop right out about 100 feet of the ground. You'll be fine, take your time, overbuild it a little, and have fun. Keep it as simple ans you can. Good luck!

 

[cbrarick]

not so much for the marco polo. Don't waste your money. Get the featherweight or a BRB. Buying a cheap set-up then upgrading to a real tracker or GPS is way more expensive then just getting a good tracker or gps in the first place.

Besides, a real system will hold you in good stead for your path up thru level 3 if you decide to go that far. My tracker rides every high powered launch I do, regardless of altitude. I've never lost a rocket with it.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Well.... Since Monday the 25th.... the FLU! sheesh, both my wife and i have literally been so sick that we have been in bed. we both went to a doc-in-a-box (me via VA) and was sent home with a bag full of meds. so today i'm up with no energy.

I received my order from Apogee. Zephyr, RMS DDT, and a 38mm AeroPack motor retainer (wish i got the tail-cone thou..) yesterday afternoon. motors are on there way from BSA. I've taken the bagged pieces and parts out of the box, but not gonna even try anything until tomorrow due to my energy level being so low. Apogee sent me a Rocket Buildings 101 on a cd... but my laptop does not have a cd player/reader..

You can get a cheap USB DVD player/recorder from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/s?k=dvd+play...refix=dvd+player+usb,aps,165&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

 

[Titan II]

Apogee sent me a Rocket Buildings 101 on a cd... but my laptop does not have a cd player/reader..

Check their site. They have lots of how to build videos.

 

[Rob Campbell]

You will like the Zephyr. It's easy to build and the interlocking fins and centering rings ensure perfect fin alignment without the need for a jig. And it's a great flyer as well

 

[86mustang408w]

not so much for the marco polo. Don't waste your money. Get the featherweight or a BRB. Buying a cheap set-up then upgrading to a real tracker or GPS is way more expensive then just getting a good tracker or gps in the first place.

Besides, a real system will hold you in good stead for your path up thru level 3 if you decide to go that far. My tracker rides every high powered launch I do, regardless of altitude. I've never lost a rocket with it.

It depends on where he flies if it would be waste of money, and even then it's not a waste to me. It was $120 less then then FW system I may never use.

 

[cbrarick]

It depends on where he flies if it would be waste of money, and even then it's not a waste to me. It was $120 less then then FW system I may never use.

you missed my first paragraph. I specifically said that if you would plan or consider upgrading to a real gps then it was a waste of money

the problem is you never know about the future. It seems like at least once a regional launch someone with a marco polo is asking people if they saw which way their rocket went because they didn't see it - and they have no signal.

when i certified L1 I never thought I'd be out in Black Rock, but my comm-spec tracker worked just fine out there, too.

 

[Ron Soto]

It depends on where he flies if it would be waste of money, and even then it's not a waste to me. It was $120 less then then FW system I may never use.

i'll be flying in Dalzell SC next month if i can get over this damn flu! i'm so sick i don't have the energy to move much.. .

 

[86mustang408w]

you missed my first paragraph. I specifically said that if you would plan or consider upgrading to a real gps then it was a waste of money

the problem is you never know about the future. It seems like at least once

Ok!

i'll be flying in Dalzell SC next month if i can get over this damn flu! i'm so sick i don't have the energy to move much.. .

Feel better, I have sinus issues all year long and it gets really bad too. Hope you find a tracker that works for you. I love the Marco Polo tracker I just got. Its perfect for a starter kit. Featherweight is nice too, and I almost bought a full system but the price until I'm sure ill fly all the way up was just too much to waste.

But I've made the mistake of buy expensive parts to destroy them the first time out. So, I picked one up. Its mainly for my low power stuff. But it will work for the L2 cert flight. Then if I pass, I'll look at more expensive tracker if I go further. I hope you feel better, I was injured at work and left disabled years ago. I'm so fortunate I was able to do this again.

Ok, Feel better, this crap is everywhere again.

 

[JSW]

Well.... Since Monday the 25th.... the FLU! sheesh, both my wife and i have literally been so sick that we have been in bed. we both went to a doc-in-a-box (me via VA) and was sent home with a bag full of meds. so today i'm up with no energy.

I received my order from Apogee. Zephyr, RMS DDT, and a 38mm AeroPack motor retainer (wish i got the tail-cone thou..) yesterday afternoon. motors are on there way from BSA. I've taken the bagged pieces and parts out of the box, but not gonna even try anything until tomorrow due to my energy level being so low. Apogee sent me a Rocket Buildings 101 on a cd... but my laptop does not have a cd player/reader..

hopefully everyone is having a great holiday season, and will have a great new year!

r-
View attachment 621996View attachment 621996

My 2 cents:

I did my L1 with the Apogee Zephyr and an Aerotech H motor.

I followed the online Apogee build videos exactly. They are great. I would not deviate. Keep it simple to make sure less can go wrong for your L1 cert.

I did not use a Jolly Logic chute release. It didn’t go that high on the H. Rather walk a bit further rather than have something go wrong. (This Apogee videos also recommend no JLCR on L1 cert flight)

Trackers can be pretty expensive - and you'll have to modify the nose cone to create a e-bay for it. not worth it for this low of a flight. Keep it simple for the L1.

Good luck.

 

[cbrarick]

I just tape my tracker to the shock cord on my rocket. No modification needed, ever.

 

[Ron Soto]

So... literally for the past 8 days i've had the flu. just horrible!

yesterday, i finally woke up without a pounding headache, and was able to start on the MMT, and tacking the fins through the wall. also attached was the shock cord, and rail guides. i had to go to home depot to buy the building materials as hobby lobby did not have any CA or epoxy. i had to buy JB epoxy and loctite CA. the bottle of ca didn't even make it thru the MMT.. i had to use some gator glue CA that i had here at the house to finish building.

being so sick since receiving the kit, i've did some researched but wasn't able to 'click away' at the building materials i really needed. i still don't have the filler yet.. so i'll see if walmart has some. so... now im under the gun as the 13th is quickly approaching. (i was able to get 'most' of my building materials as HD.. just not all.

today, i'll epoxy the MMT, rail guide weld nut, and continue on.

 

[Handeman]

It depends on where he flies if it would be waste of money, and even then it's not a waste to me. It was $120 less then then FW system I may never use.

I looked at the Marco Polo site and they want $265 for the ultralight system. It only works when the receiver can get a strong enough signal from the transmitter. Kind of a modernized Walston RDF system.
I guess I don't understand why you wouldn't go with an actually GPS system that will send position packets on the way down so you at least know within a few hundred feet where the rocket landed. The Missleworks T3 system is only $260, works on 1S batteries, and the Xmit is only 1" x 2.075". You do need a bluetooth Android or Win PC to use it.
If you want to solder the system yourself you can get an EggFinder GPS Tx, LCD Rx with a GPS unit for $165 so you don't need anything else for it to work. You can add a voice unit for $20 so it'll tell you where to go. Of course for both of these, you will need a case for the receiver if you are going to carry it into the field. You can find 3D printed ones for sale, print one yourself, or spend about $10 to buy an electronics kit box. That just adds a little construction/assembly project with them.
With the Eggfinder, for $40 you can add a telemetry unit and Quark altimeter in the rocket and your LCD receiver with GPS & voice unit will speak out your real-time altitude, apogee, and deployment events (depending on which Eggtimer altimeter it’s used with) and then tell you which way you need to go and how far to go to get your rocket. You can plug it into an AUX input on the launch PA for everyone to hear or in the stereo of you vehicle to get voice direction while you drive out to your rocket.

At a $250 price point, there are GPS tracker options available, besides the RDF Marco Polo. Of course everyone has to pick the system that will work the best for them. My experience is that the Missileworks T3 works great, but I've never lost rocket using the Walston RDF or Eggtimer either. YMMV

 

[kjhambrick]

If I was getting into a tracker today, I would lean more toward a GPS like @Handeman describes rather than a simple dog tracker and an RDF receiver around my neck on the ground.

I am all-in for data collection from my flights so a GPS provides more info for me to gather and mess with.

OTOH, as @cbrarick said above, a Walston CA MODA 2338 Transmitter and now, @Brainstormz123's Comspec transmitters connect to my shock cord in a duck tape and bubble wrap gobby sheath so I don't need any special av-bay setup to fly a tracker ...

-- kjh

 

[Handeman]

If I was getting into a tracker today, I would lean more toward a GPS like @Handeman describes rather than a simple dog tracker and an RDF receiver around my neck on the ground.

I am all-in for data collection from my flights so a GPS provides more info for me to gather and mess with.

OTOH, as @cbrarick said above, a Walston CA MODA 2338 Transmitter and now, @Brainstormz123's Comspec transmitters connect to my shock cord in a duck tape and bubble wrap gobby sheath so I don't need any special av-bay setup to fly a tracker ...

-- kjh

I have a single board that my GPS tracker and battery is mounted on. It fits in the nose cones of the rockets I've modified. For the ones I haven't, I have a heavy wall tube it fits in with end caps that I tape to the shock cord with 4 - 6 wraps of electrical tape. Probably wouldn't work for anything smaller than about 3", but it does work great. I usually tape it to the main shock cord, but it works just as well, maybe better when taped to the drogue cord.

 

[cbrarick]

my gps holder is a 54 mm coupler and 45mm stiffy tube, with a bulkhead on the aft of the stiffy tube and forward on the coupler. The forward bulkhead has a eyebolt. The two slide together and are held by 2 plastic rivets. a piece of kevlar shock cord, and it can hang on any rocket 3 inches and above. Changing tit is super easy this way.

 

[ShadowSpire48]

For a secondary rocket, go with a LOC Goblin. You won't even need a chute release because it won't break 1000ft on a baby H motor, easy peasy. I honestly find the chute release a waste of money. I've had mine for a few years and have only gotten it to actually release maybe 2 times, the pin can easily get stuck on the release mechanism. I gave up on it.

Also, a LOC Goblin if built with wood glue will easily fly on G motors(I've seen one fly on a F67 although I wouldn't recommend it). It's also under the weight limit that you need a waiver for unlike the Zephyr and if you want to, you can push it for L2, it'll still hold up.

 

[waltr]

Did my L1 on a LOC Goblin. Was just under 1550gram and did 952 feet on an H238 with simlpe motor eject.
Added a LOC Ebay and extension for main chute for L2 (this was full DD but only my 50th or so DD flight). This weighted 6.5 pounds and did 3200 feet on a J270.

I did use BSI 30minute epoxy but only enough to bond everything. No big filits inside or out to keep weight down.
Stock LOC Goblin goes about 500-600 feet on G's as a Class 1 rocket.

 

[Handeman]

I'm not sure why this thread went to other rockets. The OP selected the Zephyr for his L1 cert rocket which I think is an excellent choice. It's a little small for L1, but will work well on small H to large I motors. If it stays low enough on large I motors to fly on the OPs home field is something he will have to decide.

I just don't understand why people want to fly a MPR with a 29mm MMT for an L1 cert or a small L1 rocket with a 38mm MMT for an L2 cert and then not having a rocket to fly I or K motors on.

If you only want the cert and don't want to actually fly any motors in the cert range and want to save money, then those recommendations make some sense. If you do want to fly motors in your new cert range, then I don't understand why you wouldn't build a cert rocket that works well in the full range you are certing in at the field you fly on the most. L2 is a little different because of the large range of power. A 4", 10 lbs. rocket on a small J will be low and slow, but a mid L could put it well over 10,000 ft. so that's a range better handle by two or more rockets if you are east of the Mississippi.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

I use the Walston receiver with LL Electronics transmitters. https://www.radiotracking.com/transmitters-2/xlf-6v Same as the Walston, same price, and better protected. I tape them to the apogee shock cord.

 

[Ron Soto]

I'm not sure why this thread went to other rockets. The OP selected the Zephyr for his L1 cert rocket which I think is an excellent choice. It's a little small for L1, but will work well on small H to large I motors. If it stays low enough on large I motors to fly on the OPs home field is something he will have to decide.

I just don't understand why people want to fly a MPR with a 29mm MMT for an L1 cert or a small L1 rocket with a 38mm MMT for an L2 cert and then not having a rocket to fly I or K motors on.

If you only want the cert and don't want to actually fly any motors in the cert range and want to save money, then those recommendations make some sense. If you do want to fly motors in your new cert range, then I don't understand why you wouldn't build a cert rocket that works well in the full range you are certing in at the field you fly on the most. L2 is a little different because of the large range of power. A 4", 10 lbs. rocket on a small J will be low and slow, but a mid L could put it well over 10,000 ft. so that's a range better handle by two or more rockets if you are east of the Mississippi.

yes... my OP has kinda been hijacked... this said i picked the Zephyr for one reason.., its beefy. yes... it'll be low and slow for my L1, but i'm just restarting from the mid-80's. in the 80's i was into multi-stage (2) using H's to G's. mostly scratch built. this is where i believe i'll be heading again.. i will say.. .that back in the 80's when i was rocketeering there was no 'openrocket/rocsim' software and definitely no electronics. our height estimates were based on having 2 to 3 people standing back 200 or so yards from the launch pad.. then using protractors the individuals would get the 'degree' at apogee and compute the height.. NOT great... but you could get an estimate on your apogee height.

Moving On...
yesterday i epoxy'd the MMT/fins/rail guides nuts, and eye bold for shock cord. Today, i'll fit and epoxy the coupler in and then i'll be mostly done...

Question: i was only able to purchase 5 min epoxy. this said its kinda hard to work with due to the 5 min timing.. For the coupler.. would it be ok to use Tightbond II ?


have a great day,

r-

 

[Titan II]

For the coupler.. would it be ok to use Tightbond II ?

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/glueing-couplers.120741/