What is the best L1 Cert rocket?

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Binder Design Excel is an outstanding L1 rocket. Simple, rugged, plenty of room for recovery gear, plenty stable.
 
I have already flown a few mid power rockets and done some research so I was just going to get a few more opinions. I think I know witch one I am going to use for my L1.
 
BASIC Certification Rocket . . . 3 FNC rocket for Level 1 & Level 2 . . . Strong & Simple !

LOC parts . . . Trailing Edge of Fins swept forward 1" to avoid landing damage . . . 12" Root Edge for strength . . . Tip Chord - 3" - 4". Fin Span - 5"-6" . . . Overall Length 66.75".

4" X 36" Tube
4" X 36" Tube ( use 18" for Payload Section )
1.65" X 36" Tube ( Motor Mount, use 14" for Motor Mount )
3 - 38mm / 98mm Centering Rings
4" X 12.75" Nose Cone
4" diameter Stage Coupler
2 - 4" bulkheads ( to make electronics bay for Level 2 )
3/16" - 1/4" Thick Spruce Aircraft Plywood ( Fins )
Kevlar Shock Cord
Eyebolts, U-Bolts, & Other Hardware ( including motor retention clips )
54" Parachute +/-
Launch Lugs or Rail Guides

LEVEL 1 : H - I ( 38mm )
LEVEL 2 : "Baby" J ( 38mm )

Start studying for your Level 2 test !

https://www.nar.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/HPRL2-2020-V2_STUDY_GUIDE.pdf

Dave F.
 
Jmhepworth said:
One of the few things I don’t care for about this forum is the disrespect shown to new members. It’s not as bad as it used to be, but some of the comments above border on it. There are several good threads that answer your question seriously. Learn how to use the search function. If you don’t, every good question you ask will be responded to with the equivalent of “if you’re too lazy to search I won’t help you.” I’m sorry it happened to you, but take solace in the fact that you’re not the first. When I post something, I try to live by the rule, “no matter what, be kind.”

Having said that, here’s a serious answer. There are dozens of kits that will work. Or you could design something yourself. I like rockets that are stable so you don’t have to worry about weight in the nose. I like rockets that don’t have plywood fins below the body tube (unlike like the Loc-4). They can break on landing. I like rockets with a big enough body tube that the chute comes out easy but not so big that the motor ejection won’t generate enough force to make it come out. I like rockets and motors that are low enough that you can see everything and recovery is easy. I also suggest you get some confidence with F and G motors so that moving up to an H doesn’t create stress. Level 1 is easy if you work up to it.
Click to expand...
I live by the rule "if someone asks for help, provide it, without being a snarky jerk".

I'm not a "kit guy" . . . So, if you were to build your own from scratch :

BASIC Certification Rocket . . . 3 FNC rocket for Level 1 & Level 2 . . . Strong & Simple !

LOC parts . . .

Trailing Edge of Fins swept forward 1" to avoid landing damage . . . 12" Root Edge for strength . . . Tip Chord - 3" - 4". Fin Span - 5"-6" . . . Overall Length 66.75".

4" X 36" Tube
4" X 36" Tube ( use 18" for Payload Section )
1.65" X 36" Tube ( Motor Mount, use 14" for Motor Mount )
3 - 38mm / 98mm Centering Rings
4" X 12.75" Nose Cone
4" diameter Stage Coupler
2 - 4" bulkheads ( to make electronics bay for Level 2 )
3/16" - 1/4" Thick Spruce Aircraft Plywood ( Fins )
Kevlar Shock Cord
Eyebolts, U-Bolts, & Other Hardware ( including motor retention clips )
54" Parachute +/-
Launch Lugs or Rail Guides

LEVEL 1 : H - I ( 38mm )
LEVEL 2 : "Baby" J ( 38mm )

Start studying for your Level 2 test !

https://www.nar.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/HPRL2-2020-V2_STUDY_GUIDE.pdf

Dave F.
 
Which one did you decide on?

I have a number of fiberglass high power rockets but decided to pick up a Zephyr because it's lighter and will better handle some lower power motors I have.
As others mentioned, it's a good choice for a L1 rocket; good design, well engineered, complete instructions, and has about everything you need.
Put a 54mm motor mount in mine.
Zephyr missile.jpg
 
Having just gone through this decision (I RTFM'd first though), I have two recommendations:

1- Keep it simple and pick one of the rockets you've seen mentioned several times in this thread. When you search this forum you will find that the Zephyr and the LOC IV are probably by FAR the most common choices. People seem to succeed with these rockets. Runners up include the LOC EZI-65, the LOC Goblin, and the SBR Fusion. And I guess maybe the Aerotech Mega Initiator. But there are several more that are variations on the same theme - simple and stable.

2 - Someone should sticky (or tag, or whatever it's called on this forum) this post. Having just gone through the process of scouring the archives to compile this information, it turns out that this thread allowed people to compile a "best of" album. Now that I added the Goblin and the Mega Initiator to the list, I think we've covered all of the most referenced models on historical "Best L1 cert rockets" threads. Maybe we sticky this and then just refer people to it from now on? Or just provide the following list (verbatim from notes I took in my research):

Zephyr
LOC IV
SBR Fusion
LOC Goblin
Binder Design Excel
Mad Cow Super DX-3
LOC EZI-65
Aerotech Mega Initiator
Roll Your Own
Some other 3/4FNC that will stay reasonably low on a small H
 
Clay Lowery said:
What's the best L1 cert rocket?
Click to expand...
Hi Clay,
Welcome to TRF and to Rocketry in general.
It’s impossible to say which is the best L1 cert rocket (or anything else that people commonly ask “which is the best?” about) without YOU defining the criteria for best. Cheap? Easy to build? More nearly assured of success in the certification process? A kit with super clear instructions and quick to build? A kit that snaps together in half a day and is built with super glue? Something that captures your imagination and reminds you of reading Tom Swift books when you were a boy?
Also, what are the limitations where you want to fly? Do you want something that flies high or takes off slow and flies low? There are just too many factors for any of us to say rocket X is best.
For every one of these I would select a different rocket.
So, I am not going to tell you which is best, but I’ll recommend some different things to look for.
If you want the easiest rocket to build and prepare, look at three fin and nosecone rockets that have a single body tube. There are a lot of them. The ones from Aerotech have plastic rings that molded plastic fins snap into and which are glued together using super glue. One can be built in a single sitting very easily.
The very complete instructions packaged with the PML rockets do a very good job of teaching the fundamentals of building high power rockets and their Quantum Tube kits are easy to finish no spirals to fill and sand.
I just taught a class of CIvil Air Patrol Cadets. Some did their Tripoli Mentoring Program tests and qualification flights. That’s an option for 12-17 year old Tripoli members. When they turn 18 they automatically become certified L1. We used Loc Precision rockets, mostly Graduator models, but it’s not as easy to put together as the Aerotech models. Unfortunately, the instructions for certain Loc models vary in quality widely, with some instruction sets that were written for older models packaged with kits which have since been changed. That would be very frustrating if provided to a young person with no experience to build without a mentor nearby.
Truly, the best thing you can do is to attend a launch and walk around seeing what others are flying. Stop and ask questions; you’ll find that in-person most rocketeers are hospitable and more than willing chat with you without judgement or harshness. You may even find that there’s an on-site vendor who can show you different kits and discuss what you criteria are.
Good luck. I hope to see you at a launch sometime. Please feel free to introduce yourself.
 
Steve Shannon said:
Good luck. I hope to see you at a launch sometime. Please feel free to introduce yourself.
Click to expand...
Seconded. I was surprised at the snark present in this thread, that’s not super typical. Hopefully we as a community learn from this and be more respectful to the next person.

I love showing off my stuff and sharing what I know, and I know others do too, so I’m never afraid to ask what others are up to if it looks like they’ve got some down time.

A rocket range is a very good place to start conversations with new people. Usually the forum is too, clearly we did not hold ourselves to that standards in this case though.
 
Actually guys, this thread was quite helpful. I was thinking myself of getting a Doorknob kit, but I like the looks of the Zephyr, which I've never heard of until just now. And it's not that expensive either! I'm going to assume this kit could also launch with an F motor (with a 34mm to 29mm adapter)? It's just that I'd like to fly something that I can also fly at my local club's monthly meetings, and I think at our field we are limited to F and below. (Which is why I was originally looking at a Doorknob kit, which is a 29mm motor mount rocket).... Anyhow, I'm still a noob, if worse comes to worse, I build myself my custom stretched Big Daddy with a 29mm MM and fly that sucker. But I might still get myself that Zephyr because I like it.
 
techrat said:
Actually guys, this thread was quite helpful. I was thinking myself of getting a Doorknob kit, but I like the looks of the Zephyr, which I've never heard of until just now. And it's not that expensive either! I'm going to assume this kit could also launch with an F motor (with a 34mm to 29mm adapter)? It's just that I'd like to fly something that I can also fly at my local club's monthly meetings, and I think at our field we are limited to F and below. (Which is why I was originally looking at a Doorknob kit, which is a 29mm motor mount rocket).... Anyhow, I'm still a noob, if worse comes to worse, I build myself my custom stretched Big Daddy with a 29mm MM and fly that sucker. But I might still get myself that Zephyr because I like it.
Click to expand...
High thrust G motors and H— I plus smaller J motors for the zephyr
 
techrat said:
I'm still at the 24mm MM stage, so, I'm going to spend next year messing with 29mm kits and then I'll get the Zephyr. Zephyr 2024 -- sounds like a campaign slogan.
Click to expand...
That seems like a good idea
Getting comfortable with mid power motors before reaching high power makes a lot of sense. Learn what you can as you go up.

Once your ready to buy the zephyr it takes 38mm or you can use a adapter to 29mm but it generally likes high thrust G motors and up
 
Last edited:
Adam3836 said:
Once your ready to buy the zephyr it takes 38mm or you can use a adapter to 29mm but it generally likes high thrust G motors and up
Click to expand...
EXACTLY. If the Zephyr is a 38mm, then that's what I have to feed it. But first things first. 29mm is my goal for 2023, and THEN, and only then do I even think of going 38mm.
 
Jmhepworth said:
One of the few things I don’t care for about this forum is the disrespect shown to new members. It’s not as bad as it used to be, but some of the comments above border on it. There are several good threads that answer your question seriously. Learn how to use the search function. If you don’t, every good question you ask will be responded to with the equivalent of “if you’re too lazy to search I won’t help you.” I’m sorry it happened to you, but take solace in the fact that you’re not the first. When I post something, I try to live by the rule, “no matter what, be kind.”
Click to expand...
Absolutely.

The search function is nice, but it is also unreliable with forum software. All too often searches end up result in the string of snarky replies to use the search function or the unhelpful lmgyf links.

Also consider that new kits come on the market, new build techniques get popular, other things become discontinued and it can be valuable to get current opinion from forums. Also, it seems people get jumped on for not using search and for resurrecting old threads after using search. You can't have it both ways.
 
This is not a particularly difficult problem to solve.

1 - The HPR forum probably needs to be broken up into at least two forums - An "L1" forum for questions like this and a "Everything else HPR" forum
2- The fact that there is no "HPR for Beginners" forum or sticky or stickies for "What is the best L1 kit" and "What motor should I use?" is 90% of the root problem here. How many times do people need to ask the question before the moderators/admins just create the sticky? This would not only clean up the forum and solve the search issue, but it would be fabulously helpful to new people.

It is not my site and I am not a mod or admin, so I can't answer the question about why this hasn't happened. I tried to create an HPR Primer thread, but the admins/mods told me it was "gibberish" so I moved it to my own website.

Helping out newcomers should be a priority and it should be easy. It is a choice to make it this difficult.
 
mtnmanak said:
2- The fact that there is no "HPR for Beginners" forum or sticky or stickies for "What is the best L1 kit" and "What motor should I use?" is 90% of the root problem here. How many times do people need to ask the question before the moderators/admins just create the sticky? This would not only clean up the forum and solve the search issue, but it would be fabulously helpful to new people.
Click to expand...
In the early days of the internet, there used to be these things called FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions). I've actually written a few (mostly about things like how to hook up a serial terminal to an old Sun Workstation, when you don't have a monitor and keyboard).

All the moderators have to do is create a read-only area known as FAQs, and then we write the FAQs that get posted there, submit them to the moderators, who then post the FAQ. Anybody who has the usual questions can be pointed to the FAQ area and problem solved.
 
I'm in the thick of choosing a L1 rocket and I think I've got it narrowed down to 2-3 different rockets.

If I were to buy a rocket right now, it would be the SBR Fusion Flex. I've built low power kits from both SBR and LOC. Their components and instructions are absolutely wonderful. Really though, and of the 3FNC/4FNC 3inch/4inch kits from SBR or LOC are going to work for L1. This list isn't complete without the Zephy. I've not built an Apogee kit, so I'm relying on the opinion of this forum, but I feel safe with that choice.

SBR 4" Fusion Flex

LOC IV

Apogee Zephyr

@Clay Lowery - let us know what you choose!
 
FAQs are fine, but they have a tendency to become old and stale they almost always get relegated to the bottom of the homepage or in a menu item, so almost no one (especially newcomers) checks them.

An explicit HPR L1 / HPR for Beginners forum would direct people to the right place

Stickies at the top of the forum would keep the FAQs up front and more likely to be read. Open Thread stickies get fresh content because people can post to them.
 
@nict - That's a fine list right there. Liking the LOC IV as it's considerably lighter than the Zephyr, and therefore I can fly locally on an F or G engine (which will allow me to test the whole thing (as many times as needed)), before attempting a L1 cert.
 

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