ESTES PATRIOT (#2056) Motor Upgrade

Discussion in 'Low Power Rocketry (LPR)' started by Luzwingnut, Feb 9, 2019.

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  1. Feb 10, 2019 #31

    K'Tesh

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    I was fairly far along on a sim of the Pro Series Patriot when I had a HD crash last year... I might have to try to recreate the sim.
     
  2. Feb 10, 2019 #32

    K'Tesh

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    Mind you... If you decide to build a Big Daddy, you should look into modding the nosecone to prevent shovel recovery issues.

    https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/big-daddy-lawn-darts-show-of-hands-please.131851/
     
  3. Feb 10, 2019 #33

    Luzwingnut

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    Deleted... Double Post
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  4. Feb 10, 2019 #34

    Luzwingnut

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    I'd sure like a copy of this, Nyrunner, in PDF if you don't mind. Or I could scrounge up some part specs and go from there, I think.

    https://www.rocketreviews.com/patriot---estes-2066-1992-1995.html

    Looking over your tutorial thread, K'Tesh. Thanks!

    https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/kteshs-openrocket-tutorials.62884/
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  5. Feb 10, 2019 #35

    Luzwingnut

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    K'Tesh? New kid on the block with OPENROCKET... the Patriot sim file worked GREAT; but "ork" files aren't. What am I doing wrong?? Thanks.

    >UPDATE< I'm beginning to figure it out.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  6. Feb 10, 2019 #36

    Rex R

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    for this one you will need a sacrificial Big Daddy kit and a length of T300-34 (3" tube from Balsa Machining Services) plus a coupler*. if built with a 24mm motor mount you should be able get a proper balance with no additional weight. paint the nose white and the rest of the rocket in red primer and you're done :).
    *will also need 6 - 8' of 1/4" sewing elastic.
    Rex
     

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  7. Feb 10, 2019 #37

    Luzwingnut

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    I've got four 3"X18" body tubes and TWO 3"X 5:1 Ogive nose cones... couplers, CRs, and 24mm MMT.

    Gonna put this Patriot together first, then an Estes Excalibur... then either the [from scratch] Leviathan or Patriot (PS).

    These OR sims are absolutely fabulous!!

    Thanks Rex R and K'Tesh!
     
  8. Feb 10, 2019 #38

    K'Tesh

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    Do not blindly trust rocketreview.com's sims. Some of them may be great, but all to often when I've converted .rkt files to .ork files and checked them out, I found horrible errors in dimensions, shapes of fins, etc. It may be a starting point, but you really can't trust them without carefully checking them.

    Now for my sims. Pay attention to things like "Air fins" Those are created to allow me to attach "decals" and "paint" that doesn't match the other side of the fin. Eliminating them will improve the accuracy of the flight performance.
     
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  9. Feb 10, 2019 #39

    Rex R

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    I used 110# cardstock to paper the 1/8" balsa fins (was trying to hold the weight down, and reduce the amount of nose weight...it wasn't until after I had it built that I thought of the 24mm mount) the ork file shows it as built, with a 29mm mount(and 4oz of weight). original PS patriot had a 4 D engine cluster(IIRC)
    Rex
     
  10. Feb 10, 2019 #40

    Luzwingnut

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    Making an 18mm MMT to insert into the 24mm MMT is pretty easy... a little masking tape does WONDERS!

    Someone stated that Estes is a bit conservative in their powering recommendations.

    There are a few designs that I am "looking" to upgrade to have a 29mm MMT... many of the designed 24mm rockets... with a little bit of forward thinking and prep... would be advantageous, I believe.

    I love a pegged-out FUN-METER!

    K'Tesh posted on a different thread... that changing to a straight 16.5" BT would be quite advantageous to this Estes Patriot (#2056) model. Think I'm going to give it a try.
     
  11. Feb 10, 2019 #41

    Luzwingnut

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    YEAH! I caught that in the Thread you have! I went through ALL FIFTEEN pages of it and COMPLETELY enjoyed every moment!

    The Estes Leviathan would "probably" serve as a good base to redevelop the PS Patriot.(Not sure if the 5:1 Ogive nose cone will "work" but it's close).
     
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  12. Feb 10, 2019 #42

    rharshberger

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    The Estes nosevone is closer to 3:1, and the Balsa Maching Service/Mercury Engineering/Apogee PNC-300K is closer to 3:1, if you have a 5:1 is most likely a HPR nosecone with an OD of 3.1" verses 3.0" for the Estes.
     
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  13. Feb 10, 2019 #43

    Rex R

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    the big daddy/ leviathan nose cone is the cone used for the PS patriot (as is the slotted tube used by the BD & Leviathan). companies seldom discard parts that they paid good money to develop :).
    Rex
     
  14. Feb 10, 2019 #44

    rharshberger

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    Especially injection/blowmolding dies those are extremely expensive.
     
  15. Feb 10, 2019 #45

    Nytrunner

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    Correct on the 4 motor cluster. That was real fun to model in solidworks.
     
  16. Feb 11, 2019 #46

    JERRYR708

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    Correction on my Estes 2056 Patriot. Should have been Estes 1248 Launchables. To late to edit, so I added it. IMG_2134.JPG
     
  17. Feb 12, 2019 #47

    JERRYR708

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    I've been wanting to try one of these ejection charge baffles for a long time. I assembled one with wood glue and coated the inside and both ends with BSI 30 min epoxy. I wanted to put it inside the Patriot after I upgraded it with at least a 24mm engine mount. Would the 1/4 oz baffle defeat the whole purpose of the engine upgrade or would it be alright? Also, how far up from the motor mount should I install it to not upset balance, yet still be effective? Getting tired of wadding and chutes with pin holes, plus it would be a whole new experience. Thanks.
     

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  18. Feb 12, 2019 #48

    Rex R

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    I have found that I need about 6" of tube space to pack a chute into(remember that nose cones a payload couplers have sticky out bits that take up room) adjust as needed :).
    Rex
     
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  19. Feb 12, 2019 #49

    JERRYR708

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    Yeah, I always had the toughest time trying to load a Baby Bertha. Never seems to be enough room in that short BT, especially when the NC hangs way down inside the tube. Thanks.
     
  20. Feb 12, 2019 #50

    dpower

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    - No need for TTW fins on BP D/E motors,stock balsa fins will be fine.
    - To determine nose weight, measure CG with a C6 (with the kit nose weight installed), then put in an E12, add nose weight to bring the CG back to the same spot. This is probably less than the motor weight difference.
    -Rocksim runs fine on a Mac, I use it. Contact apogee, they’ll help.
     
  21. Feb 12, 2019 #51

    Luzwingnut

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    Tested my 3" 5:1 and it fits my 3" thin wall tubing... got it from Apogee. OD is a perfect fit. Looking all over the house for the receipt to get the numbers on it, though. >3.1" or 3.0"<

    Gotta look at the 3;1 Ogive, though... you're correct.
     

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