Just checked Wildman. The 38-240 complete set is in stock again. Thank you ATGM.
It shouldn't take that long, we have added a 4th hardware vendor in order to ease some of the other machinists work load. Appreciate your patience.
Just checked Wildman. The 38-240 complete set is in stock again. Thank you ATGM.
I see you are on the east coast and I know what you are talking about.
...The winners for the most expensive cost per Ns are the Econo jets. $0.37 per Ns. They have to rename those. ... I used to fly a lot of Econojets no more though. Don't understand why they are so high priced now: 2 F20's for $44.99, they can keep them.
Heh. Agreed. There is nothing "econo" about Econojets. Why is AT so bad at naming their products?
Pretty much every vendor has backorders with us. That includes the big guys.
"Nefarious"...sigh...
Were they talking about Jay and Silent Bob...lol
I know one thing, most of the two clubs I fly with do not have a lot of pleasant stuff to say about AT. Almost all of them use CTI with relatively few exceptions... I'd guess 75/25 CTI/AT when it comes to APCP motors
Dunno about your 75/25 statistic. I fly at 3 clubs and we use whatever motor is available on site for sale. Sometimes we have AT vendor, sometimes CTI. I will take whatever I can get!
We are updating the matrix currently to reflect the new motors and all other changes made. I will be sure to post it here for everyone as well as facebook.
Heh. Agreed. There is nothing "econo" about Econojets. Why is AT so bad at naming their products?
Nope.My assumption was that the “econo” line was named this way because it didn’t require hazmat shipping, not because of the list price?
Honestly? I'm much less concerned with getting new motors than availability of current motors and hardware. The fact that I have to go to 4 different vendors to get a motor and the hardware to fly it is really irritating, especially for common L1 and L2 motors and casings (29-180 or 38-720 casings and motors should not be hard to find!!!). As much as I'd like to see new motors, if I can't fly the motors that already exist, that's a bigger problem.Y’all realize you’re expecting some contradictory things from Aerotech right? You want every propellant formulation in every case size, in reloadable and one time use. You want a vendor at every launch site. You want every part and motor always in stock at all of those vendors, or special ordered in 2 weeks. And you want all this yesterday, at the same prices as 20 or even 30 years ago.
The problem is that all those things are in tension with each other. Lots of variety means lots of cost for certifying and R&D. Lots of variety times lots of vendors means, if you want everything in stock, that’s a lot of unsold speculative inventory sitting around waiting for a buyer. A lot of small vendors can’t afford to or aren’t willing to do that, which is totally understandable, but if you expect Aerotech to sit on all that inventory, well, that’s more cost. Responsive no-questions-asked warranty service also costs money.
Aerotech could solve some of the problems by drastically reducing their number of parts - but inevitably that would mean eliminating somebody’s favorite motor, and they’d complain. They could find a way to make a cheaper motor, but then they’d have vendors complaining about Aerotech undercutting itself.
None of this is to say there aren’t legitimate concerns/complaints. 6 months is a long time to wait for parts. I’m pretty sure Aerotech is well aware of that and doing what they can to correct it. But they have to be careful they don’t overdo it and end up holding the bag when the market slows down again.
Basically, Aerotch is in a tricky spot in a tough business, so let’s try to keep it constructive.
Honestly? I'm much less concerned with getting new motors than availability of current motors and hardware.
Man, bravo.I thought I would post again on this thread. To give some feedback from a vendor's perspective. I'm a small local vendor. No website yet... been a vendor for 8 or so years.... been a Tripoli member a relative long time. #09356. Level 3...
We have a short flying season here in the northwest. Shutdowns due to fire danger in the summer... too cold in the winter.... but we have a great launch site with a 40,000 ft. waiver, and very large recovery area. Over the years I've seen numerous people get involved in the hobby. Some get in and seem to have twenty projects going all the time... they also seem the first to drop out just as quickly. Others get job changes... loss of income, or have to move... So the club numbers always seem to be growing, or shrinking. With new members coming and going.
Said that to say this. As a vendor... what am I supposed to stock..?? Each person seems to have their favorite flavor of motor. Some like red, some like smokey, some like slow, some like fast. I have close to $50,000 in inventory. Seems like a lot, but I don't have everything....
Here's the problem... even with that much inventory.... I will still have someone come to me and ask for the ONE item I don't have.... for example.... when Aerotech came out with the I65W... I ordered one to have on hand. Well after a couple years... I finally sold it this last Wednesday.... Sure enough yesterday someone else asked for one.... UGH!!! Is this Aerotech's fault, or mine?? Do I need to bring my inventory up another $10,000, or $20,000?
Ad a vendor, I try to anticipate my customers' needs/wants. Both new and old. Yes it would be nice to just place small orders every couple weeks, and have them delivered like Amazon prime.... but as mentioned by others... shipping and hazmat fees add up. Therefore, I try to place large orders, less often.
Same goes with hardware. Several years back. There was a run on 38/720 hardware. I raised my stock level to 5 complete motors.... I've sold 0 over the past 2-3 years.... the 38/600 seems to be what people in our club want... have two on backorder. Several years ago, i had a family that loved the G53J's. I would have 1 or 2 of each delays, and they would buy all of them. After a couple times, I raised my inventory levels to 3 each.... yep you guessed it.... I have all 9 still.... they moved to something else. Stocking hardware is tougher, as it is slower to move.
Now if I was depending on this hobby business to pay my bills, I would be much more concerned with specific item turn over ratios. As a business.... inventory costs money to have. Also, not having inventory that could be sold today, costs money.
I am always trying to anticipate what my customers want. I have enough money coming in from my 'normal business' that I have wiggle room. But, it still is a balancing act. I could spend more money on shipping and hazmat fees, by ordering more often. I can also have upset customers by not having everything in stock... which also includes stock for quick warranty items... I could and probably will raise my inventory levels....
There has been times over the years. That I have placed an order with Aerotech, and had it within 10 days. Same with my other vendor. Who also has backorders. The hobby seems to be in a growing phase... how long this will last is hard to guess. Having problems with a fire at other major motor supplier could also play a factor. Another motor supplier moved their facility, which could also affect supply. Our hobby is not like Amazon prime. We are a small community... with a very cool hobby.
Why should Aerotech be expected to put all of there resources into outsourcing to get hardware that they may have to set on for months, or years. Or worse yet come in faulty. They can't outsource the manufacturing of the motors. To increase the production facility itself would take time and money. AND remember... we could be headed to a slowdown...???
Another point I want to address is... why don't all of you stock up? You may not have a rocket that uses a 38mm or a 54mm motor today... but who knows you might in a year...?? Maybe you need to stock up on 'backup' hardware... in case you lose or damage yours..?? What if a buddy needs something...?? When you see one of your favorite motors... why not pick up two or three?Then you can just go to your own supplies and pick what you want... no waiting, no backorders, no problems... or is there..?? Maybe you are like the suppliers and us vendors and have a budget and/or space limitation. Now try to guess and use your budget to include a bunch of customers....
Rick
Treasure Valley Rocketry
I thought I would post again on this thread. To give some feedback from a vendor's perspective. I'm a small local vendor. No website yet... been a vendor for 8 or so years.... been a Tripoli member a relative long time. #09356. Level 3...
We have a short flying season here in the northwest. Shutdowns due to fire danger in the summer... too cold in the winter.... but we have a great launch site with a 40,000 ft. waiver, and very large recovery area. Over the years I've seen numerous people get involved in the hobby. Some get in and seem to have twenty projects going all the time... they also seem the first to drop out just as quickly. Others get job changes... loss of income, or have to move... So the club numbers always seem to be growing, or shrinking. With new members coming and going.
Said that to say this. As a vendor... what am I supposed to stock..?? Each person seems to have their favorite flavor of motor. Some like red, some like smokey, some like slow, some like fast. I have close to $50,000 in inventory. Seems like a lot, but I don't have everything....
Here's the problem... even with that much inventory.... I will still have someone come to me and ask for the ONE item I don't have.... for example.... when Aerotech came out with the I65W... I ordered one to have on hand. Well after a couple years... I finally sold it this last Wednesday.... Sure enough yesterday someone else asked for one.... UGH!!! Is this Aerotech's fault, or mine?? Do I need to bring my inventory up another $10,000, or $20,000?
Ad a vendor, I try to anticipate my customers' needs/wants. Both new and old. Yes it would be nice to just place small orders every couple weeks, and have them delivered like Amazon prime.... but as mentioned by others... shipping and hazmat fees add up. Therefore, I try to place large orders, less often.
Same goes with hardware. Several years back. There was a run on 38/720 hardware. I raised my stock level to 5 complete motors.... I've sold 0 over the past 2-3 years.... the 38/600 seems to be what people in our club want... have two on backorder. Several years ago, i had a family that loved the G53J's. I would have 1 or 2 of each delays, and they would buy all of them. After a couple times, I raised my inventory levels to 3 each.... yep you guessed it.... I have all 9 still.... they moved to something else. Stocking hardware is tougher, as it is slower to move.
Now if I was depending on this hobby business to pay my bills, I would be much more concerned with specific item turn over ratios. As a business.... inventory costs money to have. Also, not having inventory that could be sold today, costs money.
I am always trying to anticipate what my customers want. I have enough money coming in from my 'normal business' that I have wiggle room. But, it still is a balancing act. I could spend more money on shipping and hazmat fees, by ordering more often. I can also have upset customers by not having everything in stock... which also includes stock for quick warranty items... I could and probably will raise my inventory levels....
There has been times over the years. That I have placed an order with Aerotech, and had it within 10 days. Same with my other vendor. Who also has backorders. The hobby seems to be in a growing phase... how long this will last is hard to guess. Having problems with a fire at other major motor supplier could also play a factor. Another motor supplier moved their facility, which could also affect supply. Our hobby is not like Amazon prime. We are a small community... with a very cool hobby.
Why should Aerotech be expected to put all of there resources into outsourcing to get hardware that they may have to set on for months, or years. Or worse yet come in faulty. They can't outsource the manufacturing of the motors. To increase the production facility itself would take time and money. AND remember... we could be headed to a slowdown...???
Another point I want to address is... why don't all of you stock up? You may not have a rocket that uses a 38mm or a 54mm motor today... but who knows you might in a year...?? Maybe you need to stock up on 'backup' hardware... in case you lose or damage yours..?? What if a buddy needs something...?? When you see one of your favorite motors... why not pick up two or three?Then you can just go to your own supplies and pick what you want... no waiting, no backorders, no problems... or is there..?? Maybe you are like the suppliers and us vendors and have a budget and/or space limitation. Now try to guess and use your budget to include a bunch of customers....
Rick
Treasure Valley Rocketry
I’ve lost 3 24/40 casings this year and I frankly can’t afford to keep losing them, much less stock up. Lost one due to wind (i know where the rocket is and I won’t give up), lost the second to an E11 CATO, and lost the third (and my Rubicon) to an E11 acting more like an E28. I’m L1 certed but I’ve gone with Loki because of the cost of Aerotech (gotta go where the cost is cheaper when you’re on a college budget).Or in SEDS competition where it’s the opposite of SLI and your literally changing the rocket design on the fly during semester to max altitude because it’s a multistage comp. We ordered so many different motors during semester.
As a new L-1 guy, I can’t really afford to have multiple casings of same type lying around yet.
I’ve lost 3 24/40 casings this year and I frankly can’t afford to keep losing them, much less stock up. Lost one due to wind (i know where the rocket is and I won’t give up), lost the second to an E11 CATO, and lost the third (and my Rubicon) to an E11 acting more like an E28. I’m L1 certed but I’ve gone with Loki because of the cost of Aerotech (gotta go where the cost is cheaper when you’re on a college budget).
Hobbyline RMS is getting decidedly uncheap... the 24/40 and 24/60 motors are up by $10 to about $55 and $65 respectively. Funny thing about the 24/60 motor tho... generally it is in stock unlike the much harder to find 24/40 across most vendors. I just picked up another one... I'm just glad I have three 24/40s and now 2 24/60's! All I have to do is keep all that hardware inside the flying field.
Too late to edit this.... however that 2001 order form a few posts back shows the RMS 24/40 motor at $45. It looks like it went up to $55 this year I think... not bad says I. AT held the line on price for 17 years it looks like. Not bad at all.
Can't complain about the hardware prices, If nobody buys the hardware because they think it costs to much, then they won't be buying the reloads.
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