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Charlie, kudos for coming here and braving the "slings and arrows". I was thinking that this thread had run it's course but maybe it still serves a purpose I can't fathom. Anyway Merry Christmas and happy holidays to you and the whole Aerotech family.
 
I see you are on the east coast and I know what you are talking about.

I've grew up in CT, lived in Boston, Indiana, Delaware, Utah, now Metrowest Boston. Easterners can be a bit cantankerous.

From what I'm reading here, your responses give an indication of some improvement...

PS: since I did not mention it, thanks!
 
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...The winners for the most expensive cost per Ns are the Econo jets. $0.37 per Ns. They have to rename those. ... I used to fly a lot of Econojets no more though. Don't understand why they are so high priced now: 2 F20's for $44.99, they can keep them.

Heh. Agreed. There is nothing "econo" about Econojets. Why is AT so bad at naming their products?
 
Were they talking about Jay and Silent Bob...lol

That just points up the fact that I have to use my words more carefully... my original use was somewhat fecetious as while I *like* a good conspiracy theory, I don't actually *believe* in them!

I'll just apologize right now, across the board, for that post.
 
I know one thing, most of the two clubs I fly with do not have a lot of pleasant stuff to say about AT. Almost all of them use CTI with relatively few exceptions... I'd guess 75/25 CTI/AT when it comes to APCP motors

I will throw in a guess on this too. It might be a regional thing. CTI is up in Canada, and AMW/Pro-X is a CTI distributor. Robert and Gloria are spending their winters down here now, and when they show up at our TRA/PHX launches there is a dramatic increase in fliers that show up.
Aerotech is based down here in the Southwest, and most vendors give great discounts on their products.
I tend to fly more AT, mostly because of my love of the Dark Matter propellant, but also because of availability.
Losing the dual thrust CTI motors really set me back, and "Tweety Bird" our 5x54mm cluster rocket was grounded after we flew our last L640 DT. Now, thanks to Robert's suggestion of lengthening the launch rail, we might be able to fly it with an L935 Imax in the center hole.
I'm not gonna give it a percentage, but I think CTI usage is up at our club due to the AMW/Pro-X trailer showing up at our launches.


Dunno about your 75/25 statistic. I fly at 3 clubs and we use whatever motor is available on site for sale. Sometimes we have AT vendor, sometimes CTI. I will take whatever I can get!

Sharon and I feel the same, we will fly whatever we can get. Hardware is not an issue for us, since we have two L3 fliers in the family, we have to have two of any casing that we use regularly:

068.jpg


I hesitate to talk about what we have available in regards to motors and casings, and the above picture was taken back in 2016, but we regularly use 10 to 20 motors for a regular weekend launch. Since that pic, we have been picking up snap ring casings for our research flights.
Some of you know us as the "Sharon and Wayne" show, because down here in the Southwest, we go to a few of the bigger launches and fly a bunch of rockets. A few of you know us from the Kloudbusters "Airfest" launch, where we still fly a bunch of rockets, but are lost in the huge crowd. My point being that if you REALLY like to fly rockets, you have to be willing to spend the time and money to get reloads and casings ANY WAY YOU CAN. Aerotech has been struggling to supply product this year, next year is looking better. CTI is still recovering from the fire, next year is looking better. We made about 200 flights this year, and burned about 200,000 Ns of propellant, next year is looking better.
When it comes to motors, I say "smoke em' if you got em", and get more....



We are updating the matrix currently to reflect the new motors and all other changes made. I will be sure to post it here for everyone as well as facebook.

Really looking forward to this!
 
Heh. Agreed. There is nothing "econo" about Econojets. Why is AT so bad at naming their products?


They used to be "Econo" when they first came out and for years after,but don't know why they are so much higher now. The Economax prices aren't to bad, don't understand why the Econojets are so much higher, same thing. The Economax G's are even cheaper than the Econojets (all F impulse).
G35's Econojets are gone, those were great motors, but now the G38's are $30.00 a piece, no longer Econojets. Need cheaper gateway/ entry level motors or there will be a decline in newbees/BAR's IMO.

2001 AT price list.jpg
 
My assumption was that the “econo” line was named this way because it didn’t require hazmat shipping, not because of the list price?
 
My assumption was that the “econo” line was named this way because it didn’t require hazmat shipping, not because of the list price?
Nope.

Some original Econojets had over 30 grams of propellant.

They were cheaper because they were shorter and did not have full letter class total impulse. Original motors did not have the integrally molded thrust ring and did not have the glued screwed in delay and ejection housing.

When they changed (2007?), they go the molded casing which had to have a thicker wall and there was also reduced internal length because of the delay/ejection housing. Result was all of them then had 30 grams or less of propellant and were USPS mailable by authorized shippers. Total impulse went down a bit for some and LOT for others. There were years of incorrect package labels and many simulation motor databases still have the old much higher total impulses, which leads to wasted time and money for TARC teams who are not aware and who do not check against current certification data.
 
I can't find the story that I read about why the Econojets are so much more these days... and that story my be just that... a story.

The graphic posted by rcktnut really seems to point up the fact you could get an econoject G35 for around $11.50/unit (unit == motor) while the G40 is $16/unit. Most consumers (especially newbies) might not look at the difference in total impulse... all they are seeing is: "Gee (no pun intended), these G motors are much cheaper... I'll get these instead of those other ones Now looking at it from a distributors perspective... I've stocked all these G40s and now they are not moving.... why not? Now they're getting annoyed with AT for introducing these cheap G motors. What the heck am I going to do with all these G40's etc?

The point of the story (that I cannot find), if my memory serves (and it may not), is that if enough of the supply chain is annoyed with the manufacturer, then the manufacturer might be compelled to do something about it by the supply chain. The manufacturer will likely have no choice but to comply. (eg. tupperware and walmart. I saw a story about overseas manufacturing ages ago on how tupperware was forced to move production overseas because they could not supply it cheaply enough for walmart's taste)

Without knowing what sort of pressure the suplly chain can bring, it seems to me from my distorted perspective, that the manufacturer does not necessarily call *all* of the shots. I'm sure there are other factors that go into the calculation... those I would not know as I've never run a business!
 
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Y’all realize you’re expecting some contradictory things from Aerotech right? You want every propellant formulation in every case size, in reloadable and one time use. You want a vendor at every launch site. You want every part and motor always in stock at all of those vendors, or special ordered in 2 weeks. And you want all this yesterday, at the same prices as 20 or even 30 years ago.

The problem is that all those things are in tension with each other. Lots of variety means lots of cost for certifying and R&D. Lots of variety times lots of vendors means, if you want everything in stock, that’s a lot of unsold speculative inventory sitting around waiting for a buyer. A lot of small vendors can’t afford to or aren’t willing to do that, which is totally understandable, but if you expect Aerotech to sit on all that inventory, well, that’s more cost. Responsive no-questions-asked warranty service also costs money.

Aerotech could solve some of the problems by drastically reducing their number of parts - but inevitably that would mean eliminating somebody’s favorite motor, and they’d complain. They could find a way to make a cheaper motor, but then they’d have vendors complaining about Aerotech undercutting itself.

None of this is to say there aren’t legitimate concerns/complaints. 6 months is a long time to wait for parts. I’m pretty sure Aerotech is well aware of that and doing what they can to correct it. But they have to be careful they don’t overdo it and end up holding the bag when the market slows down again.

Basically, Aerotch is in a tricky spot in a tough business, so let’s try to keep it constructive.
 
Y’all realize you’re expecting some contradictory things from Aerotech right? You want every propellant formulation in every case size, in reloadable and one time use. You want a vendor at every launch site. You want every part and motor always in stock at all of those vendors, or special ordered in 2 weeks. And you want all this yesterday, at the same prices as 20 or even 30 years ago.

The problem is that all those things are in tension with each other. Lots of variety means lots of cost for certifying and R&D. Lots of variety times lots of vendors means, if you want everything in stock, that’s a lot of unsold speculative inventory sitting around waiting for a buyer. A lot of small vendors can’t afford to or aren’t willing to do that, which is totally understandable, but if you expect Aerotech to sit on all that inventory, well, that’s more cost. Responsive no-questions-asked warranty service also costs money.

Aerotech could solve some of the problems by drastically reducing their number of parts - but inevitably that would mean eliminating somebody’s favorite motor, and they’d complain. They could find a way to make a cheaper motor, but then they’d have vendors complaining about Aerotech undercutting itself.

None of this is to say there aren’t legitimate concerns/complaints. 6 months is a long time to wait for parts. I’m pretty sure Aerotech is well aware of that and doing what they can to correct it. But they have to be careful they don’t overdo it and end up holding the bag when the market slows down again.

Basically, Aerotch is in a tricky spot in a tough business, so let’s try to keep it constructive.
Honestly? I'm much less concerned with getting new motors than availability of current motors and hardware. The fact that I have to go to 4 different vendors to get a motor and the hardware to fly it is really irritating, especially for common L1 and L2 motors and casings (29-180 or 38-720 casings and motors should not be hard to find!!!). As much as I'd like to see new motors, if I can't fly the motors that already exist, that's a bigger problem.
 
Finally happy that Wildman got some hardware for 38-240 complete set. I’ve been thrilled with the H130W and no hazmat fee. It just sucks when you lose some hardware and can’t fly while all the vendors are backorderer.
 
Honestly? I'm much less concerned with getting new motors than availability of current motors and hardware.

Sure, that’s what you want. But note that half this thread is other customers demanding propellant x, y, and z in cases 1, 2, and 3. Aerotech has to balance both sets of demands.

“I have to go to 4 different vendors”

Which sucks. It would be much easier to keep hardware stocked if Aerotech only had to serve 1 or 2 major vendors. But then there wouldn’t be the on field personal service that some prefer and demand.

“If I can’t fly the motors that already exist, that’s a bigger problem”

I agree, but what do you want Aerotech to do that they aren’t doing already? How much of a premium are you willing to pay to make that happen on your preferred timetable? It seems like the answer is usually “I want it tomorrow, at 1990 prices”!
 
I thought I would post again on this thread. To give some feedback from a vendor's perspective. I'm a small local vendor. No website yet... been a vendor for 8 or so years.... been a Tripoli member a relative long time. #09356. Level 3...

We have a short flying season here in the northwest. Shutdowns due to fire danger in the summer... too cold in the winter.... but we have a great launch site with a 40,000 ft. waiver, and very large recovery area. Over the years I've seen numerous people get involved in the hobby. Some get in and seem to have twenty projects going all the time... they also seem the first to drop out just as quickly. Others get job changes... loss of income, or have to move... So the club numbers always seem to be growing, or shrinking. With new members coming and going.

Said that to say this. As a vendor... what am I supposed to stock..?? Each person seems to have their favorite flavor of motor. Some like red, some like smokey, some like slow, some like fast. I have close to $50,000 in inventory. Seems like a lot, but I don't have everything....

Here's the problem... even with that much inventory.... I will still have someone come to me and ask for the ONE item I don't have.... for example.... when Aerotech came out with the I65W... I ordered one to have on hand. Well after a couple years... I finally sold it this last Wednesday.... Sure enough yesterday someone else asked for one.... UGH!!! Is this Aerotech's fault, or mine?? Do I need to bring my inventory up another $10,000, or $20,000?

Ad a vendor, I try to anticipate my customers' needs/wants. Both new and old. Yes it would be nice to just place small orders every couple weeks, and have them delivered like Amazon prime.... but as mentioned by others... shipping and hazmat fees add up. Therefore, I try to place large orders, less often.

Same goes with hardware. Several years back. There was a run on 38/720 hardware. I raised my stock level to 5 complete motors.... I've sold 0 over the past 2-3 years.... the 38/600 seems to be what people in our club want... have two on backorder. Several years ago, i had a family that loved the G53J's. I would have 1 or 2 of each delays, and they would buy all of them. After a couple times, I raised my inventory levels to 3 each.... yep you guessed it.... I have all 9 still.... they moved to something else. Stocking hardware is tougher, as it is slower to move.

Now if I was depending on this hobby business to pay my bills, I would be much more concerned with specific item turn over ratios. As a business.... inventory costs money to have. Also, not having inventory that could be sold today, costs money.

I am always trying to anticipate what my customers want. I have enough money coming in from my 'normal business' that I have wiggle room. But, it still is a balancing act. I could spend more money on shipping and hazmat fees, by ordering more often. I can also have upset customers by not having everything in stock... which also includes stock for quick warranty items... I could and probably will raise my inventory levels....

There has been times over the years. That I have placed an order with Aerotech, and had it within 10 days. Same with my other vendor. Who also has backorders. The hobby seems to be in a growing phase... how long this will last is hard to guess. Having problems with a fire at other major motor supplier could also play a factor. Another motor supplier moved their facility, which could also affect supply. Our hobby is not like Amazon prime. We are a small community... with a very cool hobby.

Why should Aerotech be expected to put all of there resources into outsourcing to get hardware that they may have to set on for months, or years. Or worse yet come in faulty. They can't outsource the manufacturing of the motors. To increase the production facility itself would take time and money. AND remember... we could be headed to a slowdown...???

Another point I want to address is... why don't all of you stock up? You may not have a rocket that uses a 38mm or a 54mm motor today... but who knows you might in a year...?? Maybe you need to stock up on 'backup' hardware... in case you lose or damage yours..?? What if a buddy needs something...?? When you see one of your favorite motors... why not pick up two or three?Then you can just go to your own supplies and pick what you want... no waiting, no backorders, no problems... or is there..?? Maybe you are like the suppliers and us vendors and have a budget and/or space limitation. Now try to guess and use your budget to include a bunch of customers....

Rick
Treasure Valley Rocketry
 
I thought I would post again on this thread. To give some feedback from a vendor's perspective. I'm a small local vendor. No website yet... been a vendor for 8 or so years.... been a Tripoli member a relative long time. #09356. Level 3...

We have a short flying season here in the northwest. Shutdowns due to fire danger in the summer... too cold in the winter.... but we have a great launch site with a 40,000 ft. waiver, and very large recovery area. Over the years I've seen numerous people get involved in the hobby. Some get in and seem to have twenty projects going all the time... they also seem the first to drop out just as quickly. Others get job changes... loss of income, or have to move... So the club numbers always seem to be growing, or shrinking. With new members coming and going.

Said that to say this. As a vendor... what am I supposed to stock..?? Each person seems to have their favorite flavor of motor. Some like red, some like smokey, some like slow, some like fast. I have close to $50,000 in inventory. Seems like a lot, but I don't have everything....

Here's the problem... even with that much inventory.... I will still have someone come to me and ask for the ONE item I don't have.... for example.... when Aerotech came out with the I65W... I ordered one to have on hand. Well after a couple years... I finally sold it this last Wednesday.... Sure enough yesterday someone else asked for one.... UGH!!! Is this Aerotech's fault, or mine?? Do I need to bring my inventory up another $10,000, or $20,000?

Ad a vendor, I try to anticipate my customers' needs/wants. Both new and old. Yes it would be nice to just place small orders every couple weeks, and have them delivered like Amazon prime.... but as mentioned by others... shipping and hazmat fees add up. Therefore, I try to place large orders, less often.

Same goes with hardware. Several years back. There was a run on 38/720 hardware. I raised my stock level to 5 complete motors.... I've sold 0 over the past 2-3 years.... the 38/600 seems to be what people in our club want... have two on backorder. Several years ago, i had a family that loved the G53J's. I would have 1 or 2 of each delays, and they would buy all of them. After a couple times, I raised my inventory levels to 3 each.... yep you guessed it.... I have all 9 still.... they moved to something else. Stocking hardware is tougher, as it is slower to move.

Now if I was depending on this hobby business to pay my bills, I would be much more concerned with specific item turn over ratios. As a business.... inventory costs money to have. Also, not having inventory that could be sold today, costs money.

I am always trying to anticipate what my customers want. I have enough money coming in from my 'normal business' that I have wiggle room. But, it still is a balancing act. I could spend more money on shipping and hazmat fees, by ordering more often. I can also have upset customers by not having everything in stock... which also includes stock for quick warranty items... I could and probably will raise my inventory levels....

There has been times over the years. That I have placed an order with Aerotech, and had it within 10 days. Same with my other vendor. Who also has backorders. The hobby seems to be in a growing phase... how long this will last is hard to guess. Having problems with a fire at other major motor supplier could also play a factor. Another motor supplier moved their facility, which could also affect supply. Our hobby is not like Amazon prime. We are a small community... with a very cool hobby.

Why should Aerotech be expected to put all of there resources into outsourcing to get hardware that they may have to set on for months, or years. Or worse yet come in faulty. They can't outsource the manufacturing of the motors. To increase the production facility itself would take time and money. AND remember... we could be headed to a slowdown...???

Another point I want to address is... why don't all of you stock up? You may not have a rocket that uses a 38mm or a 54mm motor today... but who knows you might in a year...?? Maybe you need to stock up on 'backup' hardware... in case you lose or damage yours..?? What if a buddy needs something...?? When you see one of your favorite motors... why not pick up two or three?Then you can just go to your own supplies and pick what you want... no waiting, no backorders, no problems... or is there..?? Maybe you are like the suppliers and us vendors and have a budget and/or space limitation. Now try to guess and use your budget to include a bunch of customers....

Rick
Treasure Valley Rocketry
Man, bravo.

There are plenty of reasons I wouldn't be able to, money, health, time...

I'm honestly just happy to fly.

Thanks for your contribution.
 
I thought I would post again on this thread. To give some feedback from a vendor's perspective. I'm a small local vendor. No website yet... been a vendor for 8 or so years.... been a Tripoli member a relative long time. #09356. Level 3...

We have a short flying season here in the northwest. Shutdowns due to fire danger in the summer... too cold in the winter.... but we have a great launch site with a 40,000 ft. waiver, and very large recovery area. Over the years I've seen numerous people get involved in the hobby. Some get in and seem to have twenty projects going all the time... they also seem the first to drop out just as quickly. Others get job changes... loss of income, or have to move... So the club numbers always seem to be growing, or shrinking. With new members coming and going.

Said that to say this. As a vendor... what am I supposed to stock..?? Each person seems to have their favorite flavor of motor. Some like red, some like smokey, some like slow, some like fast. I have close to $50,000 in inventory. Seems like a lot, but I don't have everything....

Here's the problem... even with that much inventory.... I will still have someone come to me and ask for the ONE item I don't have.... for example.... when Aerotech came out with the I65W... I ordered one to have on hand. Well after a couple years... I finally sold it this last Wednesday.... Sure enough yesterday someone else asked for one.... UGH!!! Is this Aerotech's fault, or mine?? Do I need to bring my inventory up another $10,000, or $20,000?

Ad a vendor, I try to anticipate my customers' needs/wants. Both new and old. Yes it would be nice to just place small orders every couple weeks, and have them delivered like Amazon prime.... but as mentioned by others... shipping and hazmat fees add up. Therefore, I try to place large orders, less often.

Same goes with hardware. Several years back. There was a run on 38/720 hardware. I raised my stock level to 5 complete motors.... I've sold 0 over the past 2-3 years.... the 38/600 seems to be what people in our club want... have two on backorder. Several years ago, i had a family that loved the G53J's. I would have 1 or 2 of each delays, and they would buy all of them. After a couple times, I raised my inventory levels to 3 each.... yep you guessed it.... I have all 9 still.... they moved to something else. Stocking hardware is tougher, as it is slower to move.

Now if I was depending on this hobby business to pay my bills, I would be much more concerned with specific item turn over ratios. As a business.... inventory costs money to have. Also, not having inventory that could be sold today, costs money.

I am always trying to anticipate what my customers want. I have enough money coming in from my 'normal business' that I have wiggle room. But, it still is a balancing act. I could spend more money on shipping and hazmat fees, by ordering more often. I can also have upset customers by not having everything in stock... which also includes stock for quick warranty items... I could and probably will raise my inventory levels....

There has been times over the years. That I have placed an order with Aerotech, and had it within 10 days. Same with my other vendor. Who also has backorders. The hobby seems to be in a growing phase... how long this will last is hard to guess. Having problems with a fire at other major motor supplier could also play a factor. Another motor supplier moved their facility, which could also affect supply. Our hobby is not like Amazon prime. We are a small community... with a very cool hobby.

Why should Aerotech be expected to put all of there resources into outsourcing to get hardware that they may have to set on for months, or years. Or worse yet come in faulty. They can't outsource the manufacturing of the motors. To increase the production facility itself would take time and money. AND remember... we could be headed to a slowdown...???

Another point I want to address is... why don't all of you stock up? You may not have a rocket that uses a 38mm or a 54mm motor today... but who knows you might in a year...?? Maybe you need to stock up on 'backup' hardware... in case you lose or damage yours..?? What if a buddy needs something...?? When you see one of your favorite motors... why not pick up two or three?Then you can just go to your own supplies and pick what you want... no waiting, no backorders, no problems... or is there..?? Maybe you are like the suppliers and us vendors and have a budget and/or space limitation. Now try to guess and use your budget to include a bunch of customers....

Rick
Treasure Valley Rocketry

I'd like to respond to your question about buying more than you need in terms of motors and hardware, so you have extra if/when there is a backorder. As someone who flies both personally (both model and HPR) and competitively (TARC, Battle of the Rockets, and Nasa Student Launch), I think I've got a somewhat different perspective than a lot of the purely personal fliers. For a competition, we can't order motors 2 years in advance - we don't know what the rocket and payload requirements are going to be until that year! Furthermore, our funding often comes in on a per school year basis, and not until the beginning of said school year, at the earliest. That means the earliest we could even conceivably order motors is September (which I've always tried to do), and for a lot of those competitions, you have to be flying before winter break. That's not a lot of time to design, build, test, and fly a rocket, especially a complicated HPR project like Battle of the Rockets or Student Launch tend to be. After 6 years of flying TARC, even I could tell what the motor of choice was going to be as soon as the rules were released. If it was a two egg year, the F39 was going to be impossible to find come December or January. If it was one egg, the E28 was going to vanish (ok TBH I'm clueless on this new 3 egg thing they're doing this year!). For the other competitions, the motor requirements are a lot more varied, since it depends a lot more on the exact design of the rocket and payload, but again, we have to order at most 2-3 months in advance because of the structure of those competitions. I'm only going to briefly mention the logistical nightmare of trying to get a vendor approved to order from, so when our usual sources don't have motors, it can really put a lot of these teams in a bind. For example, last year, we had to switch from the I600 to the J500 for Battle of the Rockets, because both our rocket and payload ended up heavier than initially anticipated (the rocket was my fault - grossly underestimated the weight difference between a phenolic and paper motor mount tube, and the then necessary epoxy). However, by the time we figured this out, it was mid-January, and we had 3 months until competition. Of our approved vendors, only one of them had J500's in stock, and he only had one. We bought that one, and backordered 5 more. Those didn't arrive until this summer. Luckily, we were able to compete because I had one personally (one of my favorite J motors), and was able to order a couple more from a vendor we haven't been able to get on the approved vendor list yet (if you're reading this, thanks so much for the speedy delivery!) and just get reimbursed in kind when the backorder eventually came in. As a personal flier, yes, I can buy a motor a year or two years in advance of when I'm going to use it, or just wait the 6 months to fly that project I've spent the last year and a half working on. As a competitive flier, that's simply not an option, either in time or money.
 
Or in SEDS competition where it’s the opposite of SLI and your literally changing the rocket design on the fly during semester to max altitude because it’s a multistage comp. We ordered so many different motors during semester.

As a new L-1 guy, I can’t really afford to have multiple casings of same type lying around yet.
 
Or in SEDS competition where it’s the opposite of SLI and your literally changing the rocket design on the fly during semester to max altitude because it’s a multistage comp. We ordered so many different motors during semester.

As a new L-1 guy, I can’t really afford to have multiple casings of same type lying around yet.
I’ve lost 3 24/40 casings this year and I frankly can’t afford to keep losing them, much less stock up. Lost one due to wind (i know where the rocket is and I won’t give up), lost the second to an E11 CATO, and lost the third (and my Rubicon) to an E11 acting more like an E28. I’m L1 certed but I’ve gone with Loki because of the cost of Aerotech (gotta go where the cost is cheaper when you’re on a college budget).
 
I’ve lost 3 24/40 casings this year and I frankly can’t afford to keep losing them, much less stock up. Lost one due to wind (i know where the rocket is and I won’t give up), lost the second to an E11 CATO, and lost the third (and my Rubicon) to an E11 acting more like an E28. I’m L1 certed but I’ve gone with Loki because of the cost of Aerotech (gotta go where the cost is cheaper when you’re on a college budget).

Hobbyline RMS is getting decidedly uncheap... the 24/40 and 24/60 motors are up by $10 to about $55 and $65 respectively. Funny thing about the 24/60 motor tho... generally it is in stock unlike the much harder to find 24/40 across most vendors. I just picked up another one... I'm just glad I have three 24/40s and now 2 24/60's! All I have to do is keep all that hardware inside the flying field.
 
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Hobbyline RMS is getting decidedly uncheap... the 24/40 and 24/60 motors are up by $10 to about $55 and $65 respectively. Funny thing about the 24/60 motor tho... generally it is in stock unlike the much harder to find 24/40 across most vendors. I just picked up another one... I'm just glad I have three 24/40s and now 2 24/60's! All I have to do is keep all that hardware inside the flying field.

Too late to edit this.... however that 2001 order form a few posts back shows the RMS 24/40 motor at $45. It looks like it went up to $55 this year I think... not bad says I. AT held the line on price for 17 years it looks like. Not bad at all.
 
I understand all of these comments above. Yes, getting approved as a vendor is a bit of a hassle. I have done it with the local university here. Just to have to redo it the following year for some reason. And after giving them a discount... they were tax exempt.... which I paid the 'use tax'.... easier then the extra paperwork on a couple 'L' motors.
But, as a vendor.... The above points are exactly what I was trying to convey... we all have budgets and guessing what will be needed is very difficult. If I sell one motor over a two year timeframe.... does that mean I should order 30 more, just because a team might need that motor next year? Should Aerotech ramp up and stock 300 reloads and single use E, F, G and H motors of every flavor and time delay... maybe... maybe they all ready do. But, I'm sure they too have budget and storage limitations. Now throw in the people demanding new products, and the requirements they have to go through for testing, certifications and recertifications... this all takes time and resources.
I can only imagine what it would be like supporting 20 local teams.... and relying on my rocket business to provide my house payment. Let's see...?? Last year they bought 28 F39's.... I know.... I will order 30 G64's...?? That's the motor they will use this year...??? No one really knows what will be needed from season to season. Also, having all the motors from the same lot number is important for consistency... I get that also...
Hardware is tougher to have inventory... the ratio for reloads to hardware should favor the reloads.... and that could be a reason vendors don't stock as much hardware. Budgets suck and limit what we can/should do. New tires for the car..?? Sorry honey I need to order 100 motor cases and closures...
Wouldn't it be nice if the people designing the competitions, gave all vendors a 'top secret' list of the upcoming competition requirements... so the vendors could prepare.... yep... I know... not a chance....
I'm not trying to stir up trouble.... I'm just giving another view to the frustration that we face with this hobby... at least we don't have to deal with LEUP's and storage limitations anymore... some of you will remember those frustrating days. I also hope and think over time... this will also be taken care of... I plan to up my inventory amounts... but, I will need local support and the incoming finances from that support to do so.
This is a very fun and fulfilling hobby. That at times is VERY frustrating. Losing rockets and the hardware/electronics that go with them is not fun. Nor is doing multiple grid searches. Forgetting to link the parts of the rocket together is also... no fun... having a motor fail or multiple types of recovery failures is also no fun. But, I hope we all learn from these 'no fun and frustrating' events. I know I have. This current situation with backorders, supply/demand could also be a frustrating and learning event. As long as we don't give up on the hobby and stay safe.
Rick
Treasure Valley Rocketry
 
Too late to edit this.... however that 2001 order form a few posts back shows the RMS 24/40 motor at $45. It looks like it went up to $55 this year I think... not bad says I. AT held the line on price for 17 years it looks like. Not bad at all.

Can't complain about the hardware prices, If nobody buys the hardware because they think it costs to much, then they won't be buying the reloads.
 
Can't complain about the hardware prices, If nobody buys the hardware because they think it costs to much, then they won't be buying the reloads.

Absolutely... I guess I was grousing a bit, but when I went back thru this thread about an hour or so later I noted that I've really got nothing to whine about. I think AT *deserves* a price hike after all this time (although I'd still rather that they just gave me their stuff for free! :p )
 
I can understand a price hike when production is down, but when production comes up, prices should go back down. It'll balance out in the end if they know what they're doing.
 
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