ICEs and EVs

[jderimig]

Soliciting opinions.
A new 2024 Tesla Model 3 base has an MSRP starting at $39K.
Hertz car sales has a used 2023 model 3 base for $29K.
Only 10K miles on it.
Is that a deal?

There is a tax credit on top of that no? Does Tesla have decent service support on your island? Might a be a decent deal.

 

[boatgeek]

There is a tax credit on top of that no? Does Tesla have decent service support on your island? Might a be a decent deal.

I think the tax credit is the big question. I can’t remember if the federal one applies to used vehicles, and I never knew anything about Hawaii’s credit (if any).

 

[kuririn]

I think the tax credit is the big question. I can’t remember if the federal one applies to used vehicles, and I never knew anything about Hawaii’s credit (if any).

According to Bing there is a $4000 used vehicle EV credit for a Tesla Model 3.
And Tesla has a service center in Honolulu.

 

[John Kemker]

I'd be leery of any used vehicle from a rental car company. Even though the mileage might be low, you don't know how their customers have treated the vehicle.

 

[kuririn]

I'd be leery of any used vehicle from a rental car company. Even though the mileage might be low, you don't know how their customers have treated the vehicle.

I've heard the same too.
Would never purchase any car sight unseen.

 

[jderimig]

I've heard the same too.
Would never purchase any car sight unseen.

If you are tempted I would request that Hertz allow a PPI (pre-purchase inspection) by the local Tesla service center (at your cost). Otherwise walk away.

 

[boatgeek]

I'd be leery of any used vehicle from a rental car company. Even though the mileage might be low, you don't know how their customers have treated the vehicle.

I saw an interesting thing that in general, rental cars were pretty good buys, since most people treat them better than their own cars. They also reliably get maintenance. The only exception was sports cars, which people rent to drive like maniacs, since they're never going to see that car again. That was 5-6 years ago, so the maintenance thing may have changed since.

I've heard the same too.
Would never purchase any car sight unseen.

If it's possible, a battery health check would be a really good idea.

 

[Art Upton]

If it's possible, a battery health check would be a really good idea.

Just curious , do not Teslas monitor that on the internal self checks you can look up on the touch screen at anytime just like my laptop will tell me my current battery health ?

 

[vcp]

Just curious , do not Teslas monitor that on the internal self checks you can look up on the touch screen at anytime just like my laptop will tell me my current battery health ?

I'd be very surprised if they didn't have detailed battery monitoring. For my 12 yo Leaf, I use LeafSpy that gives cell-by-cell health of the battery.

 

[boatgeek]

Just curious , do not Teslas monitor that on the internal self checks you can look up on the touch screen at anytime just like my laptop will tell me my current battery health ?

I don’t have a Tesla so I’m not sure. I know some EV manufacturers made it easier or harder for the consumer to get battery health info.

 

[kuririn]

Here's one more:
2017 used Chevy Bolt EV LT.
$14,900.
22K miles.
One owner, leased it for 5+ years, put less than 4K miles a year on it.
$4K federal tax credit subtracted from the sales price at the point of sale.
But.....
Only a little over one year left on the battery warranty.
Good deal?
Any Bolt owners out there?

 

[boatgeek]

Here's one more:
2017 used Chevy Bolt EV LT.
$14,900.
22K miles.
One owner, leased it for 5+ years, put less than 4K miles a year on it.
$4K federal tax credit subtracted from the sales price at the point of sale.
But.....
Only a little over one year left on the battery warranty.
Good deal?
Any Bolt owners out there?
View attachment 640124

What’s the battery health like? Also, batteries don’t keep over and die. They gradually lose capacity. If it has a lot more range than you typically use, then you probably have a lot of life left on it.

 

[mikec]

All 2017 Bolts should have had a battery replacement -- https://electrek.co/2021/07/28/everything-we-know-about-the-chevy-bolt-ev-fires/

If not, stay away would be my advice.

 

[afadeev]

I saw an interesting thing that in general, rental cars were pretty good buys, since most people treat them better than their own cars. They also reliably get maintenance.

Based on my statistically significant sample size or driving rental cars year after year, rental cars are treated like sh*t. Both by the drivers, and the car rental companies. Every rental with more than 20K miles on the clock that I got from Hertz / Avis / National has had some problems. Everything from loose interior bits, to check engine lights, post-due oil service lights, bent wheels, crocked alignments (indicative of suspension damage), and ABS that would fail to work properly and would randomly lock up the wheels into a slide.

Rental companies are incentivized to put bodies into cars at the lowest price point. Usually, that means at the expense of excessively-aggressively maintaining the fleet. Coupled with super extended service intervals from most car brands (who now compete to show lowest "cost of ownership" over 100K miles), I would NEVER buy a used rental fleet vehicle. At least not in this lifetime.

Nor would I buy any used car that merely followed "manufacture's recommended" service intervals, with oil changes dragged out into 15+K mile intervals on turbocharged motors that can easily boil oil if you don't cool them down before parking.
What you want is to find an owner that maintained his/her car following an "old school" Lifetime Maintenance Schedule, like this one:
https://www.dslreports.com/r0/downl...2b06/Lifetime Maintenance Schedule v03.13.pdf

For EVs, the potential for excessive (and expensive) battery degradation stems from charging them to 100%, and then discharging them to near-0%. Which is exactly what I would do if I rented one. 'Cause - why not!

Just curious , do not Teslas monitor that on the internal self checks you can look up on the touch screen at anytime just like my laptop will tell me my current battery health ?

They do.

Anyone can enter "service" mode, and initiate battery health test.
It's not a quick exercise, and requires the starting SOC to be below 50%, car plugged into an L2 charger, and allowed to charge/dis-charge the battery overnight.
This is not something you can do during a casual PPI or tire-kicking inspection.

HTH,
a

 

[mikec]

For EVs, the potential for excessive (and expensive) battery degradation stems from charging them to 100%, and then discharging them to near-0%.

I can't speak for all EVs, but my Prius Prime maintains margin on both ends, so you simply *can't* charge it to 100% or discharge it to 0%.

 

[jderimig]

Here's one more:
2017 used Chevy Bolt EV LT.
$14,900.
22K miles.
One owner, leased it for 5+ years, put less than 4K miles a year on it.
$4K federal tax credit subtracted from the sales price at the point of sale.
But.....
Only a little over one year left on the battery warranty.
Good deal?
Any Bolt owners out there?
View attachment 640124

How many miles per year do you drive? What is your life expectancy? (The latter is I what I will be factoring in my next big car purchase, funny how new considerations factor in as time goes by).

 

[cwbullet]

Here's one more:
2017 used Chevy Bolt EV LT.
$14,900.
22K miles.
One owner, leased it for 5+ years, put less than 4K miles a year on it.
$4K federal tax credit subtracted from the sales price at the point of sale.
But.....
Only a little over one year left on the battery warranty.
Good deal?
Any Bolt owners out there?
View attachment 640124

Very few cars that are 7 years old are with $14900.

 

[afadeev]

I can't speak for all EVs, but my Prius Prime maintains margin on both ends, so you simply *can't* charge it to 100% or discharge it to 0%.

That is is a relatively smart thing that Toyota and BMW (and likely other OEMs do). But not Tesla.
In the name of maximizing advertised driving range, Tesla has never imposed a hard <upper> battery buffer.


Things get a little more complicated on the lower end, because Tesla has sold same-size battery packs at different price points, with different advertised ranges. Basically, Model 3 or S cars would get the same physical 80.5 kWh battery, but some sub-models would lock-out bottom 20 kWh of that battery and sell "stripper" configuration for less.

Then things get a LOT more complicated since, over the years, Tesla has used Nickel-Cobalt-Aluminum (NCA), Nickel-Cobalt-Magnesium (NCM), and Lithium-Iron-Phosphate (LFP) chemistries in its batteries. All of those have their own optimal operating and charging windows. Some of those were sold with hard <lower> buffers configured into the cars.