Estes Waiving Hazmat Fees....

[kjhambrick]

Stuffing a -0 with wadding and taping it over tightly is another commonly recommended trick. I've not had consistent results with that either. Need to try that again too. Will probably ground test either technique before I try flights with it again, as I had two mishaps in three or four attempts before.

One thing I like about AT motors is I can leave the BP out of an RMS or remove it from a SU motor but still have delay smoke.

I am not sure about the new AT SU motors with the plastic ejection charge wells but I assume I can still remove the BP but keep the smoke ?

-- kjh

 

[SolarYellow]

Yes.

For Quest, the A and B sizes offer no performance advantage over Estes while costing more money. The C sizes in light, non-draggy models don't give as much apogee as the C6-7, while costing more. The Quests come into their own on slightly larger and/or heavier models where the additional thrust is an advantage. And with the Ds and up. I still like D12s, but the Quest Ds having the option to dump the charge is nice. And the Quest Es just flat smoke the Estes Es, with a price difference that's not that big a deal for me.

 

[PDawg]

Yes.

For Quest, the A and B sizes offer no performance advantage over Estes while costing more money. The C sizes in light, non-draggy models, don't give as much apogee as the C6-7, while costing more. The Quests come into their own on slightly larger, heavier models where the additional thrust is an advantage. And with the Ds and up. I still like D12s, but the Quest Ds having the option to dump the charge is nice. And the Quest Es just flat smoke the Estes Es, with a price difference that's not that big a deal for me.

How does a Quest E compare to an Estes F-15? They cost about the same. I have some E-20 Aerotechs and they are not worth over double the price of an Estes E-12.

 

[SolarYellow]

E35 is 40 N-sec and weighs about the same as an E12.
E26 is 28 N-sec, about the same as an E12, but weighs only 44 grams vs. about 60 grams for an E12.

The Quests also come in longer delays than Estes.

E12 pricing is complicated due to Hobby Lobby not stocking -8 delays and HAZ shipping from most online sources.

I like ACSupply for pricing on the Quests, and even the E35 can be shipped without HAZ from any vendor.

The F15 is ~50 N-sec, but weighs about 100 grams and has significantly less initial thrust than even an E12, so it tends to get off the rod really slowly. I personally believe this is why some rockets seem to have marginal stability when flown with the F15. In good conditions, they may be fine, but if something is non-optimal, the same rocket may skywrite. And the F15s get into price-each similar to reloads with much better performance, especially when you have to pay MSRP at brick-and-mortar or pay HAZ to ship them.

 

[bad_idea]

I am not sure about the new AT SU motors with the plastic ejection charge wells but I assume I can still remove the BP but keep the smoke ?

Yes, you can still pop the cap and dump the ejection charge.

How does a Quest E compare to an Estes F-15? They cost about the same. I have some E-20 Aerotechs and they are not worth over double the price of an Estes E-12.

Quest E35 has no Hazmat, which is already an advantage. E35 has 10 Ns less total impulse than the F15, but its casing masses 30g vs. 40g for F15, and the propellant is 35g lighter, narrowing the performance gap. E35 has 19N more max thrust than the F15 and also 19N more average thrust, making it better suited to heavier rockets. In some rockets the E35 will get close to the apogee of the F15, with better liftoff speed.

E35 has available longer delays (5, 8, and 11s vs. 4, 6, and 8), will be harder to light in clusters, and cannot direct stage.

The E35 is also 24mm vs. 29mm, and while I don't have a sim to hand right now, I'm guessing a minimum diameter E35 will smoke a minimum diameter F15. Bring a tracker!

 

[BEC]

For Quest, the A and B sizes offer no performance advantage over Estes while costing more money.

I agree with this 100%. I'm particularly disappointed in the B6Ws as the samples I flew at NSL in 2021 blew me away, but the production motors are nothing special.

The C sizes in light, non-draggy models don't give as much apogee as the C6-7, while costing more. The Quests come into their own on slightly larger and/or heavier models where the additional thrust is an advantage.

I've not flown any models where an Estes C6 took the model to a higher altitude (measured with onboard FS Mini altimeters) than a Q-Jet C12, down to Alphas. A C12 is worth ~200 more feet in an Alpha over a C6. And as the model gets bigger/heavier the advantage increases. A C12 will take the RTF 1/200 Saturn V or a MAV twice as high as a C6. Those are extreme examples, of course.

I have not done this comparison yet on something like a Viking or a Wizard. But it seems possible, especially if you get a C6-7 with a real 7-second delay for the C6 to take them higher.

Also, C18s in almost every case don't go as high as C12s in the same model, due to the same total impulse being expended faster (so greater drag — which goes up with the square of velocity — from the greater speed). But C18s are loud and bright which has its own appeal.

And with the Ds and up. I still like D12s, but the Quest Ds having the option to dump the charge is nice. And the Quest Es just flat smoke the Estes Es, with a price difference that's not that big a deal for me.

Not much to add here as I've not flown 24mm Q-Jets much. The 18mm 13 N-s D16 and D20 have only a small performance advantage over their C-impulse counterparts.

 

[flyingeagle]

The lack of HAZMAT convinced me to buy their "bulk pack" -- which came out to about $9 per motor when I applied the coupon and even added the shipping. So it was a good enough deal. Not sure if they are entirely eating the cost as they may have a deal with Fedex, which appears to be their shipper of choice. Dunno. But likely they are the largest Fedex customer in Penrose, so who knows?

Where are you getting the coupons? I could never find any coupons or where to look for any of the Estes stuff.

 

[techrat]

Where are you getting the coupons? I could never find any coupons or where to look for any of the Estes stuff.

I believe the two codes I had were "Launch 2023" and "IN_321" -- try them.

 

[bad_idea]

Where are you getting the coupons? I could never find any coupons or where to look for any of the Estes stuff.

Word of mouth and usually posted in the deals subforum or various threads in Low or Mid-Power or Watering Holes subfora. in_321 is a deal provided by Estes in conjunction with ModelRockets321's YouTube channel. I don't know of any other YouTube tie-in discounts.

I believe the two codes I had were "Launch 2023" and "IN_321" -- try them.

launch2023 is 25% off but can be used only once. Might save it for a large order or something you really want. I believe in_321 can be reused for 10% off.