Estes Waiving Hazmat Fees....
- Thread starter lakeroadster
- Start date
Help Support The Rocketry Forum:
I wonder how long they'll keep that? If this is a permanent change, it makes the 29mm BP engines a lot more accessible.
They’re just eating the cost, I assume.
It should give them valuable data concerning how desirable their F motors truly are and how hazmat affect their sales.
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2022
- Messages
- 3,274
- Reaction score
- 2,969
HAZ procedures are DOT regs. HAZ billing cost is what UPS & FedEx charge for complying with those procedures. Maybe Estes negotiated a reduced rate on HAZ shipments with a carrier. I know when I used to work for a company that shipped a lot, the price to ship UPS on their account was about half what I saw when I just went online and looked up the retail rate. It's entirely plausible that Estes worked out a good enough deal to waive it.
Also, remember that Estes' cost on motors is probably on the order of 1/4-1/3 of MSRP. When they're selling one or more packs of F15s at full MSRP, they can afford to cover some HAZ.
Also, remember that Estes' cost on motors is probably on the order of 1/4-1/3 of MSRP. When they're selling one or more packs of F15s at full MSRP, they can afford to cover some HAZ.
Gastrok
Well-Known Member
I think they're eating the cost as mentioned previously. In my opinion, they are doing this because they have several (expensive) kits recently re-released that need the bigger motors to fly. The hazmat fee on top of the cost of the motors AND the high cost of these kits is just not as attractive to the consumer, so they are removing one of the expenses from the equation. Again, just my opinion.
Kartman
Well-Known Member
This is going to help a lot of people who can't get these motors anywhere near where they live. Thanks Estes.
I think I want some !
But, what's the concensus on Estes 29mm BP Motors ?
Are they pretty reliable as far as CATO rates go ?
I've checked the MESS DataBase links from within the ThrustCurve.org > Rocket Motor Data search tool:
E16 - 22 Failures at ThrustCirve.org > Estes E16
F15 - 40 Failures at ThrustCurve.org > Estes F15
The number of failures don't sound scary to me but of course, it is the failure rates that matter, not the number of reported issues.
Thanks !
-- kjh( so ... Do I feel lucky ? Well, do ya, punk ? )
But, what's the concensus on Estes 29mm BP Motors ?
Are they pretty reliable as far as CATO rates go ?
I've checked the MESS DataBase links from within the ThrustCurve.org > Rocket Motor Data search tool:
E16 - 22 Failures at ThrustCirve.org > Estes E16
F15 - 40 Failures at ThrustCurve.org > Estes F15
The number of failures don't sound scary to me but of course, it is the failure rates that matter, not the number of reported issues.
Thanks !
-- kjh( so ... Do I feel lucky ? Well, do ya, punk ? )
Shouldn't that be waiving?
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2009
- Messages
- 5,948
- Reaction score
- 593
Yes. I didn't catch that and I am usually pretty good at spotting those kinds of mistakes. I was too busy wondering how they could afford to sell a package of motors for $30 when it would cost them more than $30 to ship it. I am still not sure.
I'd like to know how many shoppers only bought one or two packs of motors and didn't spend the "savings" on a kit or two right then.
I’m not sure what the actual compliance work that FedEx/UPS has to do for HAZMAT shipping, but I wonder if Estes has made an arrangement to do some/all of the paperwork/prep for the shipper. Might be what gets them their discount. They don’t have that many different HAZMAT products, so the compliance paperwork may not be that different order to order.
They may also have worked out some deals on shipping BP because of buying the Goex plant. I imagine that only drives up the amount of HAZMAT shipping they do.
Bought 8 packs today of E&F motors. Doing all I can to keep the economy afloat.
So @ep29030 ... you must me the person who bought all 'my' F15-8 motors 
The 8-sec delays are out of stock and unlike AT SU motors, I don't know how to safely remove the ejection charge from an Estes BP motor for my rockets with electronic ejection.
-- kjh( nor do I want to know how to remove the EC from an Estes Motor, thanks for asking ... )
The 8-sec delays are out of stock and unlike AT SU motors, I don't know how to safely remove the ejection charge from an Estes BP motor for my rockets with electronic ejection.
-- kjh( nor do I want to know how to remove the EC from an Estes Motor, thanks for asking ... )
oops ... me ...
But I've not checked out yet because they didn't have any F15-8s and I didn't really need anything else ...
Maybe I should shop a bit more in the kits dept
-- kjh( thanks for the clue, Tim )
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2022
- Messages
- 3,274
- Reaction score
- 2,969
Keep checking. They may add inventory quantities to the website when they get back to work in the morning.
I only bought a single pack of the -8 motors for my So Long kit. I bought 3 packs of the -4 motors for other kits, and a pair of E16-0/E16-6 to fly the So Long on windy days.So @ep29030 ... you must me the person who bought all 'my' F15-8 motors
The 8-sec delays are out of stock and unlike AT SU motors, I don't know how to safely remove the ejection charge from an Estes BP motor for my rockets with electronic ejection.
-- kjh( nor do I want to know how to remove the EC from an Estes Motor, thanks for asking ... )
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2022
- Messages
- 3,274
- Reaction score
- 2,969
F15-8s appear to be available for ordering again.
Hmmm ...
So now that the F15-8 is available at Estes, I thought I should check the price at Kings Hobbies in Austin before I blindly jumped in for a penny or a pound.
They're available for pickup and are only $23.93 a pack at Kings but my out the door cost for a package from Estes would be $40.63 with my 10% discount plus shipping.
I'll shop locally I think
-- kjh
p.s. @ep29030 -- I was teasing about you buying all my Estes F15-8 motors
So now that the F15-8 is available at Estes, I thought I should check the price at Kings Hobbies in Austin before I blindly jumped in for a penny or a pound.
They're available for pickup and are only $23.93 a pack at Kings but my out the door cost for a package from Estes would be $40.63 with my 10% discount plus shipping.
I'll shop locally I think
-- kjh
p.s. @ep29030 -- I was teasing about you buying all my Estes F15-8 motors
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2022
- Messages
- 1,751
- Reaction score
- 1,764
The lack of HAZMAT convinced me to buy their "bulk pack" -- which came out to about $9 per motor when I applied the coupon and even added the shipping. So it was a good enough deal. Not sure if they are entirely eating the cost as they may have a deal with Fedex, which appears to be their shipper of choice. Dunno. But likely they are the largest Fedex customer in Penrose, so who knows?
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2016
- Messages
- 438
- Reaction score
- 184
Just a pet peeve of mine, without knowing how many motors have been flown the amount of failures is meaningless. If company A has 10 failures on any given motor and company B has 100, without knowing the total flown it's meaningless. Company A could have 10 failures in 100 motors and company b could have 100 failures in 100,000 motors, which is better? Not to mention MESS data is only useful trend tracking and lot marking as the vast majority of failures go unreported. Meaning it's only usefull if a bunch of one type of motor fail around the same time, then you have a batch production issue. Manufacturers can substitute motors sold for motors flown as those numbers are directly related even though they are not equal, and thus get useful information on failure rates, but is still affected by poor reporting rates.
Vent the charge - either out of the rear if you're not flying minimum diameter (in which case you may get a little bonus impulse), or out of the side of the tube.
Have you ever seen a rocket glider with soot-blackened holes on either side of the motor pod? Those are the ejection-charge vents.
Or fit a very tight removable plug into the front of a motor, preferably a -0. I've tried this without success so far, but I need to take another stab at it.
Interesting ideas, Stephen.
Definitely worth exploring, especially for when I fly Estes BP motors in my new BT-55 DD Rocket where some of their longest delays are still too short.
-- kjh
Stuffing a -0 with wadding and taping it over tightly is another commonly recommended trick. I've not had consistent results with that either. Need to try that again too. Will probably ground test either technique before I try flights with it again, as I had two mishaps in three or four attempts before.
