Trojan Hybrids.....

[green dragon]

Originally posted by edwardw
The tanks are 2.00" OD I believe. Since the tanks are pressure rated then weldig would probably de-rate them of that. Also - why would you want to constrain your electronics bay to one position and make the motor longer? Just thinking out loud.

Edward

in order..

- I thought the tanks were aprox 2" msane as HT - which means the tube coupler idea (slip-fit / friction fit over the tank ) would work fine. this would eliminate the need to weld.

- see above, so no welding required, although , iirc, AT did test some 'stretched tank' motors, where one was attached / welded tot he top of another, so apparently they can be welded to and still manage the pressures.

- and, as for the e-bay positiion, I was thinking in terms of using the AT electronics closure ( which, coupled with the no-vent hybrid, would allow use in ANY 54mm motor mount with enough length ). Also if a flyer has the electronics closure ( for thier RMS motors ), then this would alow the use on hybrids as well.
personally, I'd use the Adept timer ,as I've already used - since mounting it in a 54mm coupler allows slip-fit over the tank , OR can be used with any other 54mm motor tubes (ie: in fornt of a plugged solid ).

of course, with most birds this large being equipped with electronics from the get-go, usually 2 step deployment,etc, then the discussion is 'useful' to only some flyers.
( such as myself, when flying the HTek in my Magnum, it has no electronics, because they did not exist in 1986 when I built the bird ).

'thinking aloud' as you said, lol .

~ AL

 

[ContrailRockets]

Originally posted by Green Dragon
I didn't mean to imply attaching the existing electronics closure to the tank, but something could be made to attach to the top.

Not having any experience with AT hybrids, but having flown a very few HT's - the HTek tank is slightly under 54mm ( old tank, new tanks = custom sized but simialr idea should work ).
A LOC 2.14" tube coupler is a near-perfect slip-fit over the old HTek tank , so that was used as a base, then a platform made to mount an Adept ST260 ( octagon, flat mount) timer, then a bulkhead to seal off the ejection gases above fromt he timer itself .
Something similar , but using the (excellent) AT * sealed * electronics housing, would be perfect - attachment to the tank by ? means , could have a fitting welded onto the tank end to attach the Elec. closure, but there goes the tank pricing as a result, lol...

~ AL

Someone should really talk to Gary about this...

Maybe someone already has...

 

[PStein]

Tom,

Now that we know how much these motors cost, how about some specific producy information? I assume that you've already test fired them, have thrust curves etc.

Without specifics, you sound like some teen bragging about how the Trojan Magnums are too tight for him .

Phil

 

[Trojan_Motors]

There seems to be an error in the prices that I released.
I was updating the price sheet and it didn't save one of the cells.

The Price for the 98mm Trojan Reload should be 125.00 not 150.00 as was posted.

Sorry about the mix-up and enjoy!

 

[PStein]

So what is this 98mm motor? A large J? Maybe a J90?

 

[Trojan_Motors]

Originally posted by PStein
Tom,

Now that we know how much these motors cost, how about some specific producy information? I assume that you've already test fired them, have thrust curves etc.

Without specifics, you sound like some teen bragging about how the Trojan Magnums are too tight for him .

Phil

Phil,
Please understand that we are withholding some specifics at this time for a reason. Video, Thrust Curves, More Pictures, Package Pricing, and a Website Roll out are still coming over the next few weeks.

I will see if I can get some time this afternoon to get some more information together for everyone.

If you were referring to the specifics of the Top Mount Electronics... We spoke with Gary at LDRS regarding the EFC... It has been in the works for a while now.

 

[Trojan_Motors]

Originally posted by PStein
So what is this 98mm motor? A large J? Maybe a J90?

We are ready to certify 6 different 98mm Trojans.
Which one are you refering to?
None of them are J's either
3500cc
4630cc
5476cc

Different Average Impulses are available as well.

 

[rattmanndoo]

Trojan Motor Pricing is Now Available:

The Following Prices are for the Soon to be Certified line of Trojan Rocket Motors. The below prices are good through Contrail Rockets/Trojan Hybrids.

Hello, Tom. What happens to Hypertek tanks if they backflash? Do they fragment or separate linearly? Customers can do the strangest things: Like putting in the wrong nozzles, injectors, etc. In all my years of watching Hypertek flights I've never seen a backflash...probably because they are not subject to nozzle clogging (also, if the chamber pressure gets too high the casing just lets go). NOTE: Ever since 2001 all RATT motor designs are backflash tested to make sure they come apart linearly. Of course, we all know of at least a few RATT motor CATOs before the design changes to allow for backflash were made.
Dave

 

[Trojan_Motors]

Originally posted by rattmanndoo
Trojan Motor Pricing is Now Available:

The Following Prices are for the Soon to be Certified line of Trojan Rocket Motors. The below prices are good through Contrail Rockets/Trojan Hybrids.

Hello, Tom. What happens to Hypertek tanks if they backflash? Do they fragment or separate linearly? Customers can do the strangest things: Like putting in the wrong nozzles, injectors, etc. In all my years of watching Hypertek flights I've never seen a backflash...probably because they are not subject to nozzle clogging (also, if the chamber pressure gets too high the casing just lets go). NOTE: Ever since 2001 all RATT motor designs are backflash tested to make sure they come apart linearly. Of course, we all know of at least a few RATT motor CATOs before the design changes to allow for backflash were made.
Dave

It would be best to check with the manufacture of the Tanks. Anthony/CTI would be the ones to contact regarding the Hypertek Tanks.
The Tanks are designed not to fragment provided that they follow NFPA Guidelines.
Tom

 

[PStein]

That would be nice. With so many people here with IT backgrounds, everyone just figures more vaporware.

Phil

Originally posted by Trojan_Motors
Phil,
Please understand that we are withholding some specifics at this time for a reason. Video, Thrust Curves, More Pictures, Package Pricing, and a Website Roll out are still coming over the next few weeks.

I will see if I can get some time this afternoon to get some more information together for everyone.

If you were referring to the specifics of the Top Mount Electronics... We spoke with Gary at LDRS regarding the EFC... It has been in the works for a while now. [/QUOTE
]

 

[Johnnie]

Originally posted by rattmanndoo
Trojan Motor Pricing is Now Available:

The Following Prices are for the Soon to be Certified line of Trojan Rocket Motors. The below prices are good through Contrail Rockets/Trojan Hybrids.

Hello, Tom. What happens to Hypertek tanks if they backflash? Do they fragment or separate linearly? Customers can do the strangest things: Like putting in the wrong nozzles, injectors, etc. In all my years of watching Hypertek flights I've never seen a backflash...probably because they are not subject to nozzle clogging (also, if the chamber pressure gets too high the casing just lets go). NOTE: Ever since 2001 all RATT motor designs are backflash tested to make sure they come apart linearly. Of course, we all know of at least a few RATT motor CATOs before the design changes to allow for backflash were made.
Dave

True, I have not seen a HyperTEK flashback, only grain fragmentation...thats bad enough. The fragmentation usually resulted from re-using a grain after a full motor run of nitrous was run through it without motor ignition...frozen grains don't light so good afterwards, they just comapart violently.

Johnnie

 

[edwardw]

Originally posted by Trojan_Motors
We are ready to certify 6 different 98mm Trojans.
Which one are you refering to?
None of them are J's either
3500cc
4630cc
5476cc

Different Average Impulses are available as well.

So is 3500cc an average impulse...looks like a unit of volume to me....


Edward

 

[Trojan_Motors]

Originally posted by edwardw
So is 3500cc an average impulse...looks like a unit of volume to me....


Edward

Ding Ding. 3500cc is a Unit of Volume.

That is a tank size of which the Trojans will be certified using.
So are the other 2 sizes I listed.

 

[Nate]

yeah, but you didn't even tell us what motors they are...
posting volumetric measurements doesn't answer many questions

 

[edwardw]

So when replying to this thread which Tom is doing it as I see Contrail and Trojan both posting. Is to Tom of Contrail or Tom Jr. of Contrail? Kinda confusing when it goes back and forth between Contrail and Trojan

Edward

 

[Trojan_Motors]

To Answer Ed's Question of Who posts.

Tom R. Sanders is the one posting to any forum 99.9% of the time.

I am not going into the Tom B Jr. and Tom R Sr. thing because Tom R. Sr. is actually me, (the Younger) of the 2.

It is confusing, but I am not the Jr. nor the 3rd...

 

[Trojan_Motors]

I just got the very basic structure of the website uploaded. A Bit More information will follow shortly.

Check it out, and Check back often as I will try and get more and more information up there as the days go by.

EDIT: The Website is: www.trojanhybrids.com

 

[Anthony Cesaroni]

Originally posted by Trojan_Motors
I just got the very basic structure of the website uploaded. A Bit More information will follow shortly.

Check it out, and Check back often as I will try and get more and more information up there as the days go by.

EDIT: The Website is: www.trojanhybrids.com

I though you agreed to stop with the Hypertek references and bogus claims in our phone conversation.

Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
https://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto

 

[Trojan_Motors]

Originally posted by Anthony Cesaroni
I though you agreed to stop with the Hypertek references and bogus claims in our phone conversation.

Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
https://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto

I thought that we had agreed not to compare the Trojan line to the Hypertek Line... There are no HT Specs, Prices etc. on the site. I wasn't planning on putting any there either.

And I don't see any Bogus Claims. There are claims but they are purely opinion.

You are still the manufacture of the Tanks, so I don't know why you would not want the business which could possibly be generated.

 

[Nate]

your entire new website is devoted to convincing customers that trojan motors are better than Hypertech, whether they're bogus claims or not, that's still rude.

 

[Anthony Cesaroni]

Originally posted by Trojan_Motors
I thought that we had agreed not to compare the Trojan line to the Hypertek Line... There are no HT Specs, Prices etc. on the site. I wasn't planning on putting any there either.

And I don't see any Bogus Claims. There are claims but they are purely opinion.

You are still the manufacture of the Tanks, so I don't know why you would not want the business which could possibly be generated.

I need your shipping address for a straw hat, cane and tap shoes. You'd make Fred Astaire blush with your dancing skills. This thread is has become a convenient marketing tool for you and seems to have over inflated your capability. I should have known better than to engage in the dialogue. In short, lay off HyperTek.

You're working your way towards a lawyer's letter for starters. Keep it up.

Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
https://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto

 

[Trojan_Motors]

Obviously Nate, You know little to nothing about business.

Does Apple Try to convince you that their Computers are better than PC's? Yes they do...

When you walk into a car dealership does the car dealer try and convince you of every reason why you should buy the car they have rather than the one at the dealer next door?
Would they possibly tell you about all the cool features that the competition doesn't have?

Answer Is Below:













































YES!!!

If you think otherwise you are kidding yourself. Does Car Dealer A get upset that Car Dealer B says "Buy from me, our cars are better for reasons X, Y, and Z?"
Absolutely not, because Car Dealer A would be saying "Buy from me, our cars are better for reasons A, B and C".

Each Product has its strong points. The Car Dealers are not getting at each others throats. They just understand that is their job and live with it!... It is Sales, and Business.

 

[cjl]

Tom:

Does Car Dealer A use half of the parts from Car Dealer B's cars, and still try to tout how much better their cars are?

Answer below:



















































NO

They use their own products. That is the real issue here. They may have all kinds of claims, but at least their claims are talking about the superiority of their own products, not items that are only half theirs (and half the competitor's).

 

[Trojan_Motors]

cjl, you make a good point.

So Another Example:

K&N Airfilters...
You are working on your car, and you find your Airfilter is Dirty... You have to replace it.
The OEM filter just doesn't really get you going inside. You want the "High Performance K&N Intake Kit." The ones that increase your HP By as much as 10%! They Work with all the standard car computer systems, They Install in no time at all... But you are changing that Part... You just threw out the Old Air Filter Because you liked one of the other options you had out there?

Is your Car Maker going to get mad? No... That’s life.

But You replaced the entire air filter system!?

Now what about those "Car Guys" that replace the Stereo, Engine, Interior, Exterior, Wheels etc. They replaced tons of parts! Did the Car Manufacture go after them then?

Again... No...
Get it Now?

 

[Anthony Cesaroni]

Originally posted by Trojan_Motors
cjl, you make a good point.

So Another Example:

K&N Airfilters...
You are working on your car, and you find your Airfilter is Dirty... You have to replace it.
The OEM filter just doesn't really get you going inside. You want the "High Performance K&N Intake Kit." The ones that increase your HP By as much as 10%! They Work with all the standard car computer systems, They Install in no time at all... But you are changing that Part... You just threw out the Old Air Filter Because you liked one of the other options you had out there?

Is your Car Maker going to get mad? No... That’s life.

But You replaced the entire air filter system!?

Now what about those "Car Guys" that replace the Stereo, Engine, Interior, Exterior, Wheels etc. They replaced tons of parts! Did the Car Manufacture go after them then?

Again... No...
Get it Now?

Tom,

Spend a bit of extra money and buy the "good" drugs.

Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
https://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto

 

[cjl]

Hmm...

seems to me that the CTI motors have the higher "hp equivalent"

After all, the same load (nitrous tank) equivalent HT load has a MUCH higher total impulse than the Trojan load (if the Contrail motors are anything to go by). So, they will propel the same rocket higher. To me, that makes the HT motors a higher performance option.

Maybe I'm just the only one not seeing the light here, but I would take HT over the trojan line any day...

 

[Nate]

Originally posted by Trojan_Motors

Is your Car Maker going to get mad? No... That’s life.

But You replaced the entire air filter system!?

Now what about those "Car Guys" that replace the Stereo, Engine, Interior, Exterior, Wheels etc. They replaced tons of parts! Did the Car Manufacture go after them then?

Again... No...
Get it Now?

that example is rather odd. when someone starts with a Honda, and then adds all kinds of fancy stuff on, bigger exhausts, turbofans, different airfilters etc, the manufacturer doesn't get mad because those tuners then don't go around trying to sell that Honda under their own company...there's a tad bit of a difference there.

and yes, touting your own points while not mentioning your competitors is a great way to drum up business, but flat out bashing only one of many competitors is rude any way you cut it. this has nothing to do with business, I never said advertising your strengths, while saying it's better than competitors was a bad idea, but you only mention ONE other competitor. It's very obvious who you're trying to steal sales from, and there's no way you can argue otherwise!

 

[WiK]

Originally posted by Trojan_Motors
I thought that we had agreed not to compare the Trojan line to the Hypertek Line... There are no HT Specs, Prices etc. on the site.

From the Trojan Motors website
More Cost Effective

Compare the costs of HyperTEK® Brand Grains to the new Trojan Reloads, and you will see that for a 54mm HyperTEK® Grain will cost you $33.00 for a Standard Grain or $44.00 for the EFX Grain. The Trojan Grains are priced at $30.00 for any of the fuels. The 75mm and 98mm Grains are also priced significantly below the HyperTEK® Reload Prices as well.

 

[k2unit]

Originally posted by Trojan_Motors


When you walk into a car dealership does the car dealer try and convince you of every reason why you should buy the car they have rather than the one at the dealer next door?

Regarding your web page:

Tom...........Without a doubt you've set a NEW LOW in manufacturer relations!

Even when eAc, CTI, Aerotech and everybody’s favorite US Rockets were feuding about hybrids, reloadables or whatever, there was at least some level of respectability in the advertisements.

Don't think for a minute that dominating this forum with your marketing HYPE is going to make up for your lack of demonstrated hybrid design skills with the customer.

Comparing yourself to a car dealer maybe be in fact an accurate statement… more specifically, A USED CAR SALESMAN. The hobby saw thought the BS and outrageous claims the last motor marketteer made and he’s gone now…..the hobby may force you to be next!

Way to set the bar!

 

[Trojan_Motors]

Originally posted by cjl
Hmm...

seems to me that the CTI motors have the higher "hp equivalent"

After all, the same load (nitrous tank) equivalent HT load has a MUCH higher total impulse than the Trojan load (if the Contrail motors are anything to go by). So, they will propel the same rocket higher. To me, that makes the HT motors a higher performance option.

Maybe I'm just the only one not seeing the light here, but I would take HT over the trojan line any day...

Cjl,

Earlier on in this thread we were discussing the difference between cars that get great MPG and Cars that have MPG that would for all intensive purposes be classified as "Crap".

If You want a very efficient motor by all means go with HT. They have consistent ISP's in the High 130's to 200 range.

So Rather than looking at who wants to go higher... Lets look at who wants the most acceleration. Same Rocket, Same Size Motor... HT J-315 vs Trojan J-800.
Shouldn't the customer have that option? Well the ISP might not meet the HT 140 but It will give the customer the option to have that bang off the pad.

Or what about the customer who wants to look really flashy with the sparky motors! Those don't have great ISP numbers, but they sure do look cool! Should they be able to make the decision to sacrifice ISP For Looks?

You have to look at high performance from different angles.
ISP Is one of them.
Average Impulse is another.
Cool Effects is yet another.