Yea I would like to see those ignitor DOT numbers too. Aerotech has all their DOT numbers on their website. Why don't you? That is data you do have, so you can post it while you are waiting for Paul. I mean, you DO HAVE IT RIGHT?
-Todd
Trojan Hybrids.....
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Yea I would like to see those ignitor DOT numbers too. Aerotech has all their DOT numbers on their website. Why don't you? That is data you do have, so you can post it while you are waiting for Paul. I mean, you DO HAVE IT RIGHT?
-Todd
Anthony Cesaroni
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https://www.naturesongs.com/cricket1.wav
Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
https://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto
https://www.pa.msu.edu/~nila/wavs/badboys.wav
If the numbers can't be produced, then it is reasonable to assume that they never existed.
Tom,
I'm sure that I don't need to remind you that the last hobby motor maker that got caught for DOT violations got a $40,000 fine.
Between your ridiculous marketing claims, skirting questions and possible illegal activity you seem to be well on your way to becoming a mirror image of that particular manufacturer.
You might want to rethink your business plan and attitude.
PStein
Member
I wouldn't jump to conclusions here. Maybe he's applied for them and they're in the mail or maybe Tom and the one who's name must not be mentioned, have had the same letter and numbers passed on to them.
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Originally posted by PStein
I wouldn't jump to conclusions here. Maybe he's applied for them and they're in the mail or maybe Tom and the one who's name must not be mentioned, have had the same letter and numbers passed on to them.
Nah, he just left his White-Out at his other desk, along with the DOT paperwork....
:kill:
-Kevin
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Geez, I didn't know that this hobby had so many legal and regulatory zealots in it! I am sure you all have LEUPs and ATF approved dayboxes during your launches.......
"18 USC 842(a) It shall be unlawful for any person
(3) other than a licensee or permittee knowingly
(A) to transport, ship, cause to be transported, or receive any explosive materials; or
(B) to distribute explosive materials to any person other than a licensee or permittee;
18 USC 844(a) Any person who
(1) violates any of subsections (a) through (i) or (l) through (o) of section 842 shall be fined under this title, imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both;
"
bobkrech
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All DOT EX numbers are listed here. Warning: files are big.
Hint: open database files with excel, save as .xls
https://hazmat.dot.gov/enforce/forms/ohmforms.htm#fireworks
under Explosives (Non-Military) Updated as of July 3, 2006
The files have been saved in two formats ASCI and DBASE. Please see the readme.txt file for additional instructions for using the files. The files provided are self extracting executables (*.exe) for IBM compatible machines and zip files (*.zip) for MacIntosh machines.
NOTE: IBM compatible machines can read both *.exe and *.zip files.
Non-Military Explosives -- explo_xxxx.exe
All Fireworks -- fwks_xxxx.exe
The long product names have been incorporated into the main files and a notes field has been added.
Download Instructions
explo_ascii.zip2(1.8M)
explo_ascii.exe2(1.8M)
fwks_ascii.zip2(803K)
fwks_ascii.exe2(819K)
Readme.txt
explo_dbase.zip2(2.3M)
explo_dbase.exe2(2.4M)
fwks_dbase.zip2(982K)
fwks_dbase.exe2(998K)
Readme.txt
Bob
Hint: open database files with excel, save as .xls
https://hazmat.dot.gov/enforce/forms/ohmforms.htm#fireworks
under Explosives (Non-Military) Updated as of July 3, 2006
The files have been saved in two formats ASCI and DBASE. Please see the readme.txt file for additional instructions for using the files. The files provided are self extracting executables (*.exe) for IBM compatible machines and zip files (*.zip) for MacIntosh machines.
NOTE: IBM compatible machines can read both *.exe and *.zip files.
Non-Military Explosives -- explo_xxxx.exe
All Fireworks -- fwks_xxxx.exe
The long product names have been incorporated into the main files and a notes field has been added.
Download Instructions
explo_ascii.zip2(1.8M)
explo_ascii.exe2(1.8M)
fwks_ascii.zip2(803K)
fwks_ascii.exe2(819K)
Readme.txt
explo_dbase.zip2(2.3M)
explo_dbase.exe2(2.4M)
fwks_dbase.zip2(982K)
fwks_dbase.exe2(998K)
Readme.txt
Bob
Funny........
I don't see Contrail Rockets or Trojan Hybrids on the list.
Is it under a different name?
Did the Department of Transportation loose the paperwork?
It must have been obtained after July 3, 2006 and Tom's waiting for them to update their website.....
Its nice to see that Cesaroni, Aerotech, Estes, Loki, Ellis, and Quest are on the DOT list
Coincidently, I did not see Animal Motor Works on the list... What name do they ship under?
I don't see Contrail Rockets or Trojan Hybrids on the list.
Is it under a different name?
Did the Department of Transportation loose the paperwork?
It must have been obtained after July 3, 2006 and Tom's waiting for them to update their website.....
Its nice to see that Cesaroni, Aerotech, Estes, Loki, Ellis, and Quest are on the DOT list
Coincidently, I did not see Animal Motor Works on the list... What name do they ship under?
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Yep, and nowhere in there is Contrail listed.
In addition, for months, Tom claimed that he had an EX number, but "the paperwork is in my other desk." I'm waiting on a number, nothing more.
Either he has it, or he doesn't. At this point, I'm leaning towards "he doesn't".
-Kevin
n3tjm
Papa Elf
I know the name, but not sure the zoo keepers would like it if I answered that. but rest assured, they are on the list.
rdh8
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Here is the DOT exemption.
https://www.geocities.com/rdh82000/files/E10996.pdf
AMW is the Grantee.
Funny thing, I don't see Aerotech on there.
Robert
Garoq
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Funny thing, that file is obsolete.
RCS was the grantee, not AMW. The DOT made a mistake on that revision which they corrected shortly thereafter.
Exemptions are now "special permits". Each holder receives a separate authorization letter so the names of the companies authorized to use the permit are no longer listed on it.
Garoq
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Really? Who was that? And who did you hear it from?Originally posted by rdh8
That is correct.
I like the original better
As I hear it someone cried like a baby to the DOT because they became the "Former Grantee"
Sheesh, it's just a piece of paper.
Robert
And why would a company want to "hijack" the origin of a historic document?
bobkrech
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AMW's ex #'s are 2002030128 thru 36 on their propellants and ex#'s on their articles are 2002060200 and 2002060212 thru 216, and they are listed under Composite Propulsion Technologies Inc.
A request for listing for these numbers under the D.B.A. AMW Inc. was submitted as well, and AMW was told by Carol Monroe at DOT that it was not necessary to have two sets of numbers for the same product, given the fact that they were both at the same locations. The EX numbers are assigned to both the New Hampshire and Florida manufacturing locations, because propellant samples made at each location were submitted to the testing lab for classification and shown to be equivalent.
I assume that a similar situation exists or could have existed between Aerotech corporate entities 1 and 2, ISP, Rocket Motor Parts and all the other corporate entities and D.B.A.s that the Aerotech(TM) brand of hobby rocket motors have be manufactured under over the past 2 decades.
Contrails and/or D.B.A Trojan Motors may or may not be required to obtain EX numbers for their propellant grains. If like some other hybrids, the Contrails/Trojan fuel grains are simple unboosted polymers such as PVC, ABS, Polyethylene, Polypropolyene, or other plastic polymers, then EX numbers are not necessary because polymers of this type are not explosives. If the fuel grain is a composite with an oxidizer or other burn rate enhancing additives, a DOT certified classification may be and probably is required. If the classification test data results in a 4.1 flamable solids clasification, then an EX number is not required. If the classification test data reveals the fuel grain is a class 1 material, then the data must be submitted to DOT for an EX number assignment before the motors can be sold and/or shipped.
I have to believe that TRA TMT would not certify Contrail motors without insuring that Contrails/Trojan manufacturing and motor designs meet the necessary NFPA 1125 Sections 4.2 permitting and Section 7.5 design requirements, so there must be a paper trail somewhere.
Bob Krech
rdh8
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"hijack" - I have no idea.
In the past the document was always written with the grantees listed in alphabetical order.
So when Aerotech went away AMW was the next in line.
Why someone would want to "hijack" the original document for their own ego is beyond me.
Your guess is as good as mine
Robert
bobkrech
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Gary
You are incorrect. The AMW E-permit is valid through November 2006.
As a shipper of hazardous materials and a holder of a DOT Special Permit you should be aware of the current CFR Part 100-185 regulations and the details of the changeover from the exemption E-##### permits to the special permit SP-##### lexology. For the rest of the non-shippers, DOT is changing the E-##### Exemption designation to the SP-##### Special Permit designation over the next few years. The old E-##### format is still valid and will be automatically changed to SP-##### upon a signatories next renewal.
While AT may have been the original party to a special permit, once issued, any qualified hazmat shipper can apply to become a signatory to that special permit, and while the granting of a new special permit usually take 120 days or more, renewing or becoming a signatory to an existing special permit usually take a couple of weeks.
Bob
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