Originally posted by PStein
I needed some brake pads for my Porshe 911 (which I've since sold.) I went to the dealer. They were out & couldn't have them for a day or two. I got "compatible' ones at an autoparts supplier. They went in fine and they stopped the car. Then I had to push things a little and found that the car didn't brake as well as it originally did. I got a set of Porsche brake pads and it performed as well as it did previously.
There are things that can be improved upon with adaquate R&D but without it, maybe it will be better but there's just as good a chance without some testing, you'll be trying that airbag on for comfort.
I am not really familiar with Porsche Cars. But I know the 911 is nice. I would figure they do quite a bit of R&D on the Brakes and Engine. Dont Some Porsche 911s Come with Brembos. 911 GT3s maybe? I might have that confused with another car maker out there. But I digress
Not all Aftermarket Parts are better than OEM. Just as all OEM Parts are not as good as some aftermarket parts.
Take Some of the newer Aftermarket/OEM stuff like TRD, Mugen, or SVT
They are Aftermarket but still made by the company. And often recognized as a Higher Performance Alternative.
Originally posted by PStein
Tom, can you give some insite into your R&D process and methodologies for creating your better than stock Hypertek loads? I'm not asking for specific proprietary information. Can you describe it in general terms?
Phil, I would be happy to give a synopsis on how we came from nothing on the Trojans to Ready for Cert. Hang with me here, I am going to start talking out loud.
Back during I think it was Thanksgiving of 2005 we were sitting around discussing Increasing Market Share
We threw around a lot of ideas. One which came up was how AC used AT Cases for Certing Pro 75 and 98s. There was also some talk around that time somewhere around cross compatibility of hardware
I think it was AMW and Loki Hardware that was discussed. Knowing we didnt want to get into Ap motors, we brainstormed of ideas. There are tons! We keep a book full of them. My Dad writes literally everything down in these things. It really helps when you go back to look at things from the past.
We discussed a few other topics and product ideas
Some time later we revisited the idea of cross compatibility. We [Tom and Tom] were talking about some stuff and my dad said What about this?! And I immediately said something like Nooooooo, but YES! We talked for a while about it and I immediately sat down to run some numbers on what could be done. It looked like it was defiantly possible and we invested some more time into it.
Some ruff drawing were done, and ideas just tossed around. Me and My dad do that a lot
Ideas bounce back and forth, get fine tuned and polished. Like those polishing tumblers. You drop a bunch of rocks in and let them stir around for a while and something comes out all shiny.
We got some HT Tanks to work with, test out and prototype with. Some prototypes were made, and refinements made. New tools ordered and more parts machined.
To be honest, one of the harder parts of the Trojan Motors was venting
We didnt want to have to re-use the HT Vent in the Trojans, and We didnt want to have them soldered like the HT Vents either. They still are probably the hardest part of the Trojans. Small Offset hole, and VERY Small Tap.
The first Production Trojan part rolled off the line and we were very happy. It looked great.
Testing and Reproducing the other parts are something else all together.
Testing (in an R&D sense)
Testing is all together different. We cant sit down on a piece of paper and say this is what a motor will do with 100% certainty. We have a pretty good idea I think, but the motors have to be fired. Over the past few years we have came up with Spreadsheets to make things faster, parameters which we try and keep the motors within, and a big book of information on each motor design.
Testing is more of a brute force effort. We are the citys number 1 Nitrous Oxide user. Probably the County even. We generally have about 10 K Cylinders on hand at all times incase we decide to test a lot of motors in a short period of time. I think we have 11 on hand right now, but there is some testing coming up soon
To Test we just go out and test, and analyze the data. We have multiple load cells all the way up to 4000# Cells. We have a mobile test stand which makes set up and take down quite a bit faster
Just drive it out to the test site Hook up the Motors and Fire away. We prep all the motors before hand so we dont have to sit out in the desert for long periods of time.
When Testing we figured it would be best to test a lot of motors at once, so we made a lot of hardware for us to use. We have upwards of 6 Full 38mm and 54mm Systems with Extra Nozzles so we can fire all the cases w/o any tearing apart etc. 3 Full 75mm Systems and 2 98mm Systems. We had 2 152mm Systems as well until LDRS. Now we have 1.
We fire a lot of motors! LOTS! The More the Better! They dont all have great ISP
Some of the Fuels we have developed have better ISP Than others, and we know that
As mentioned before, we have Manufacture Demo Status on the Platinum Performance Fuel we have developed which is really a great propellant for those looking for High Total impulse motors! It gives just that! High Total impulse.
Some motors are tested more than others
some motors need more testing than others. Exotic motors need more testing than something not so exotic. The Motors on the extremes are the ones that get the most testing. By Extremes I mean stuff like the I-747, and J-800
Or the J-242/J-222
They would be more likely to have more testing than a J-333 for example. If the J-222 and J-555 Both work well, it isnt to hard to figure out after a few fires that the J-333 is fine as well.
People have asked why isnt there any 38mm/48Inch Slow Motors
The Answer R&D
They dont work reliably. I would venture a guess that about over ½ the time spent with Contrails over the past 2 years has been spent on R&D.
Originally posted by PStein
In my experience, in most cases, if you want something that rides like a Cadillac, you're better off to buy the real deal rather than something compatible that the used car salesman says is more comfortable, is faster and handles better.
Sometimes this is the case. Sometimes a Cadillac isnt for everyone. But those other companies wouldnt stay in business selling other parts if it were not for people who have different opinions. Are Contrail/Trojan Motors for Everyone
No, but thats what is so nice about options. Some people want the Toyota Prius, or Honda Fit. Some people want the Corvette. Some people want a Caddy, Some want a Lambo
To Each his own.
Originally posted by PStein
BTW - I don't find your constantly comparing yourself to Hypertek that upsetting. From your site, I get the impression that you consider Hypertek to ge the gold standard of hybrids. I'm sure many people will look at your site and decide to go with the real deal.
I do think of Hypertek very highly. The Work done by Korey and AC and all those involved is great. They are very smart people, and have done great things for the hobby. Back in 1994 and 1995 when the development of HPR Hybrids by Aerotech and Hypertek were going on I was still a kid. They paved the way. If people decide that they would rather fly HT over Trojans that is perfectly fine! Just as if someone didnt want to fly Contrail Motors and decided to go with Ratt or SRS
They are both great products. No one product is right for every flyer. Can you think of 1 product in HPR That people dont have an option for something similar?
Multiple Motor Manufactures, Electronics Makers, Parachute Makers, Kit Manufactures etc. Options are Good!
Originally posted by PStein
If I were you, I'd be making AT compatible hybrid reloads. People have the hardware and for whatever reasons, AT has not made loads for them in years. That market is ripe. Anyone know why AT isn't making loads for them? Gary??
Look at all the great marketing advice and opportunites you are getting here.
Phil
One Big Problem you run into when using the AT Hybrid Hardware is that the Design is Patented. Trojans do not infringe on the patents of HT. But using the AT Hardware would infringe on the patents held by AT.
Tom
