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heres a wonderful shot of Doug (n3tjm) saving time on recovery. all he had to do was put it in the back after removing it from my hood. we think the rocket just wanted to go home:D
 
Here's my 2 cents worth regarding pad mgmt and coordinating the volunteers, speaking from my experience volunteering all 3 days, as well as at LDRS last year. Most of these topics have been touched on but:

1. Printed instruction sheet for volunteers regarding how to manage people and pads.
2. Assign someone to set up the pads each day.
3. Pre-shift meeting of the volunteers to explain procedures.
4. Overlap of shifts to allow cross training.
5. Separation of HPR and LPR...I felt bad for many of the LPR folks, kids in particular, who had to wait a long time to launch. And for HPR, some folks have problems with draining batteries as they wait to launch (seen more at LDRS).
6. Shut the range down if there aren't enough volunteers (we pushed the limits of prudence on one of the afternoons).
7. I like the idea of going to the head of the line if you've volunteered.

All in all, I thought it went pretty smoothly, all things considered, and hats off to some of the club members (Fred, for one) and the volunteer LCOs.

How about a separate thread to address these matters while they're fresh in our minds? It'd help to hear from people who volunteered, as well as people who were launching (i.e., what worked, what drove you nuts).
 
Originally posted by Adam Selene
i think this is Neil's Dad's L2:

btw- if anyone can id any of my pics please do so!!

Yes, that's my rocket...thanks for witnessing the flight and helping with the setup. :p
 
Originally posted by jflis
Pictures! PICTURES! I gots pictures! :D

I just got my NERRF photo albums uploaded (2 of them, about 50 pix each).

You can view them by clicking this link.

If you know the name of the owner, rocket and/or motor used for any of these, please send me an email and I will try to keep this updated.

jim

p1010051.jpg


Cool you got a picture of my homemade Blue Meanie cluster on the pad next to yours, nice pic. :)
 
Originally posted by jflis
Pictures! PICTURES! I gots pictures! :D
........
If you know the name of the owner, rocket and/or motor used for any of these, please send me an email and I will try to keep this updated.

jim


Wow! To the right of the Decaffeinator and Blue Meanie is my Ice Storm which flew on a C6-5 and Jim you got my Stingray (flew on a C6-5) and me! Funny, I got the Stingray and you! Great lift off shot! and the Long Overdue which fell victim to the long wait on the right side LP pad and didn't fly. No biggie on that. I'm an adult, I've moved on. I've got video of the full flight of the Decaffeinator. I'm in the process of editing down and logging the video so I don't have massive irrellevant wait time between launches.

Thanks

(planet) Andy Turits
 
Wow! And right next to your ice storm is my son's Estes Skywriter, had a great flight with that one as always!

Glenn
 
FYI Fred Taverni has offered to write a NERRF article for Extreme Rockerty.

If you wish to contribute to this article please email it to Fred at
[email protected]

If you wish to write your own article, please do so but perhaps you would consider colabotrating with Fred so NERRF is coverd from different angles.

OK everybody Email CHUCK RUDY RIGHT NOW " WE WANT NERRF " " WE WANT NERRF "

This way he will have the DVD ready for the fall Christmas shopping season.

Chuck, Who needs Sleep...... Coffee Black... keep going...:eek:

OK while NERRF is still fresh in everyones mind, Please review the pictures in the gallery and send caption info ASAP...

Regards
Bobby B
 
Originally posted by Hospital_Rocket
Got any other mistakes you'd like me to make at your expense?

Well - not Loki's expense - but hopefully others can learn from my mistake at my expense. (I didn't know that this was a mistake until after the fact....) I learned the hard way.
Although it does not say to avoid this anywhere on the instructions or the Loki website - you cannot use some standard, commercially available motor retention devices on the Loki J528LW motor. (And I think they said with the I405LW this might happen as well)

I used the Public Missiles PMR 38/54 KS motor retainer on a Loki J528LW reload in my PML Eclipse. I have used this retainer many times with many reloads in several rockets including AT J350W, AT J420R and CTI J285's. I also used the PML 54mm retainer on an AMW J230 Skid the day before in the same rocket. So I think the PML retainers are okay.

Apparently if you use this or any other motor retainer that captures the back of the motor case as opposed to only holding in the motor by the thrust ring - you will blow out the back end of a properly assembled motor (I didn't leave out o-rings). Here is what I was told - The heat of this very energetic load gets somewhat held in by the retainer which transfers to the back of the case which causes the rear of the motor case to soften and expand. This allows the nozzle to be blown past the snap ring which also gets spit out. It also sheared off the three Stainless Screws holding in the retainer. It also blew apart my PML Heavy Duty 54/38mm adapter.

So - I got a blown motor case (Loki said they would cut it down to use the "I" reloads) No nozzle. No thrust ring. No snap ring. No retainer. No adapter. A second "I" case (as I already bought the full set) and no "J" case to use the loads I have left.

This is not a grip against Loki. I REALLY like their motors and will continue to use them. (I have all three 38mm motors and I am eyeballing the 54mm stuff....) I can't wait for new propellant formulations for the existing motor cases. I'm looking at the J820 Star Grain for my Tube Fin to conform to the "J" limit @ CMASS but still get it in the air safely!! I just hope others do not repeat what I did.
 
Originally posted by Adam Selene
a leopard spotted big daddy:

Hello!?!?! Can't you tell a Cheetah Rocket from a Spotted Leopard?? :p :p :)

At least my 4 and 6 year old girls will be sure to correct you as it is their rocket!!! (I think I once made that mistake....)

Nice shot - we missed getting a launch photo. That was the first "E" flight for the Cheetah!!! (E11-3J)
Thanks for posting!!
 
Originally posted by Gregzo


Apparently if you use this or any other motor retainer that captures the back of the motor case as opposed to only holding in the motor by the thrust ring - you will blow out the back end of a properly assembled motor (I didn't leave out o-rings). Here is what I was told - The heat of this very energetic load gets somewhat held in by the retainer which transfers to the back of the case which causes the rear of the motor case to soften and expand. This allows the nozzle to be blown past the snap ring which also gets spit out. It also sheared off the three Stainless Screws holding in the retainer. It also blew apart my PML Heavy Duty 54/38mm adapter.
what I did.

I wonder if this only applies to the J528 as I have flown the Endeavor on the H & I with the 54mm PML retainer. What I did was cut a 54mm OD CR to have a 38mm bore and push it over the end of the motor then I let the 54mm retainer hold the motor in.

I'm not sure how this differs from what you did and will post a picture later...
 
I think the difference is that with your method - you are not capturing the end of the case. Your C/R holds the thrust ring of the motor and the 54mm retainer holds the C/R.
A standard PML 38mm retainer holds onto the end of the case as this is how it is designed. So with Loki 38mm J's - you cannot use this standard motor retainer.
 
I think the problem with the PML 38 retainer is that just enough of it hangs over the motor that the flame plume can impinge and hot gasses flow back at the case. Aluminum loses strength quickly when heated.

Hmmm, just think of the motors LOKI could come up with using a titanium case.....
 
Originally posted by thomasrau


Hmmm, just think of the motors LOKI could come with using a titanium case.....

And think of the amount of money you would need to spend to get a case. Your wallet and bank account would be significantly lighter
 
Originally posted by thomasrau


2. Always line up all the parts in a tray on your bench, anything left over when you're done is a bad sign.


I actually went out and bought a shallow Tupperware tray to deal with this. the side walls keep the parts in one place and if for some reason i have to step away mid stream, I can just snap the lid on and all the pieces stay together. As you said, when the motor is assembled, if I look in the tray and see anything other than the instruction sheet, It's time to take things apart and see what I left out.

A
 
Well it was the second prettiest CATO at NERRF. Not much can beat the Napalm like one from the day before though. That was very impressive.:D
 
Originally posted by Ryan S.
And think of the amount of money you would need to spend to get a case. Your wallet and bank account would be significantly lighter

And you might have to duck more :rolleyes:
 
Actually ducking wouldn't help. While titanium is lighter and much more heat resistant, it's not ductile. A cato would cause it to become a granade, rather than splitting like aluminum.
 
Large event tips.

I was very impressed with the last big RocStock event a couple of weekends ago. The club has a very streamlined and straight forward process at the launch pads that worked very very well.

I wasn't too happy with them having to launch all of the LPR pads en masse since it got difficult to track my own rocket in the maze of smoke trails, but there were so many people launching that it just had to be done that way. 18 pads were loaded, names of the fliers and what rocket/motor was being launched were announced and .... 4,3,2,1, launch. It does look impressive.

The launch controllers were very nice. I recall that there were 3 identical selector boxes that could be slaved together to launch multiple pads with one button.

Cost of the event was collected through launch fees, raffles of vendor donated gear and swag (T-shirts, hats, etc). Unclaimed raffle prizes (you had to be present to collect) went into a goody bag for a special volunteer raffle.

This was my first launch at a ROC event and all of the people running the event were friendly, cheerful and having as good a time as I was. I don't think that they would hesitate to describe how they set up their events if someone got in touch (https://www.rocstock.org). Never hurts to ask. There is some good documention on the web site.

I agree that long wait times suck. Hybrids seemed take the most time as an M is about 4 or 5 mins to tank up on NOS if everything goes well.

The RocStock site had enough room that LPR, MPR, and HPR could be loaded while one class was launching. The exception was exteme HPR where it was prudent to clear the whole range. Since these were few, it was no problem. It gave me plenty of time to run back to the car for my camera if I had put it away.

Launching went right across the line (except busy lpr periods). If a rocket didn't lift, the next in line was tried. A failed launch required the flier to remove their rocket from the launch pad when the range was opened and the next group loaded their rockets. One would retrieve their launch card, replace a burned ignitor, etc and resubmit for another attempt. While LPR was reloading, MPR launched in sequence. The idea was to keep rockets launching and spend as little time as possible fiddling at the pads.

Big events are a logistical challenge. It sounds as if the event went pretty well and people had fun. It will certainly get better as time goes on. There are too many good people in the hobby for it not to.

I haven't come across any club sized launch controllers online, but there must be some plans lurking somewhere on the web for a robust system that is still simple in the details (so it's easy to troubleshoot quickly in the field). I know that my local club doesn't seem to keep track of member's professions or outside interests in any organized manner. It certainly doesn't hurt to know who in a club is the goto person for particular parts or services that could come in handy (electrical parts, metal working, PA system, etc, etc). hmmmm.

dang, I was gonna browse the Fliskits site and see if TODAY I could make up my freakin' mind what I REALLY want to order. Too late and past my bed time.

Cheers
 
Originally posted by Saks_Russel

dang, I was gonna browse the Fliskits site and see if TODAY I could make up my freakin' mind what I REALLY want to order. Too late and past my bed time.

Cheers

Now, now, now... you have plenty of time...

to help, here's a link to our site

:D Just doing my part to help :)

jim
 
:) Gee, thanks, Jim.

Like I don't already have the URL commited to memory :)

I've got my choices narrowed down and I'll place an order in the next day or so.
I keep nagging myself to finish what's on the workbench half done before I buy anything else, but I just can't help getting more.

Saks "If I list what I have in my sig line, it would be a post in itself" Russel
 
Originally posted by Loki
Heh heh, I always wondered what it would look like if I left that o-ring out. :rolleyes:

First this happens...

Sudden_Rush_CATO.jpg


Then this

Sudden_Rush_CATO_Aftermath.jpg


Wanna see up close?

Sudden_Rush_CATO_Aftermath_closeup1.jpg


Sudden_Rush_CATO_Aftermath_closeup3.jpg


Still being a ghoul?

Sudden_Rush_CATO_Aftermath_closeup2.jpg
 
I am pretty sure of it. The damage is extensive and I will need to essentially start from scratch however the most expensive parts lived to tell the tale:
  • 1/2 of the airframe
  • The tailcone
  • The fins
  • The CPR3K fittings
  • The altimeter
  • The nose cone
  • The parachutes
Shopping list:
  • 36" section of QT
  • 18" of 54mm phenolic MMT
  • 36" of 38mm MMT
  • 4 3" couplers
  • 3 bulkheads
  • 6 centering rings
  • Some Kevlar

I plan to have her restored for the CTRA invitational on Sept 10th.

New name

BAR - Born Again Rocket....
 
Wow, you're actually going to rebuild?! My comment was meant as a sarcastic remark, but more power to you!
Reed

By the way, nice name.
 

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