Military Base Launches

Discussion in 'The Watering Hole' started by kevindcornwell, Dec 7, 2018.

Help Support The Rocketry Forum by donating:

  1. Dec 7, 2018 #1

    kevindcornwell

    kevindcornwell

    kevindcornwell

    Magma Mountain Rocketry

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hilo Hawaii
    There is a particular Military Base (Bradshaw AAF) that I would like to approach to see about doing either an annual or semi-annual HPR Launch Day(s). The airspace is restricted (of course). I think (that's probably dangerous) that the FAA is not involved since it is an MOA. I need some guidance as follows:

    - I would like some precedence: Do you know of any other MOAs that allow regularly scheduled HPR flights?
    - As it is an MOA, does it require FAA waiver?
    - What would be the most favorable way to approach them with my request?
    - If you've done this before (permission at an MOA), you want to come to Hawaii and help me?

    This field is part of a state-wide group of bases (PMRF) that encourages STEM education and loves to garner positive public postures. This I expect, will be my opening gambit. I am actively involved in STEM rocketry programs with front-page coverage in our local newspaper. I am lvl 2 NAR/Tripoli with certified NAR Safety Officer training. Our NAR section, SHARKs, has insurance. All these factors should work in my favor, but I'm not sure how to wade into this process. I know who to contact, but wish to have all my ducks lined up in proper military fashion before I make my initial inquiry. Any advice will be thoughtfully considered and greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Kevin
     
  2. Dec 7, 2018 #2

    cwbullet

    cwbullet

    cwbullet

    Obsessed with Rocketry Staff Member Administrator Global Mod

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Messages:
    19,619
    Likes Received:
    437
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Glennville, GA
    MOA or not, you will be required to have a waiver. Even if they say it does not get one.
     
  3. Dec 7, 2018 #3

    UhClem

    UhClem

    UhClem

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,335
    Likes Received:
    19
    "However, a person operating an unmanned rocket within a restricted area must comply with § 101.25(b)(7)(ii) and with any additional limitations imposed by the using or controlling agency."

    But a MOA is not a restricted area. Years ago I did a LMR launch within a MOA with just the required notice to the FAA. The location also happened to be directly under a low altitude military training route (it is still on the charts as VR152).

    I also dealt with flying in a Restricted Area. The controlling agency was the secret service and the waiver included specific instructions for dealing with them. Once, I even spoke with someone from NORAD.

    I don't see a MOA on the sectional but I do see Restricted Area R-3103.
     
  4. Dec 7, 2018 #4

    kevindcornwell

    kevindcornwell

    kevindcornwell

    Magma Mountain Rocketry

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hilo Hawaii
    It is listed as you've noted - I assumed that all MOA were Restricted. Perhaps not?
     
  5. Dec 7, 2018 #5

    kevindcornwell

    kevindcornwell

    kevindcornwell

    Magma Mountain Rocketry

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hilo Hawaii
    Given your input, am I correct in interpreting that the Restricted zone has an active and an inactive status such that the AAF has control (to 30,000') when active and the FAA has control when it is inactive. ? (which is why I would need an FAA waiver to enter the airspace AND permission from the AAF to enter the property (with coordinated times/dates. Am I on the right track?)
     
  6. Dec 7, 2018 #6

    kuririn

    kuririn

    kuririn

    BARGeezer TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    925
    Likes Received:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hawaii
    Kevin,
    I would suggest you get in touch with the head honcho of our NAR section, the Hawaii Kai Rocketeers, Mr. Mike Terry. I believe you have been corresponding via email with him? He underwent the process of applying for flights at the Marine Corps air station at Kaneohe. He can tell you in detail what's involved, what paperwork you need, who to contact, and any helpful advice. I do know you will need a military sponsor. Good luck. Let us know the outcome, would like to join up with you!
     
  7. Dec 7, 2018 #7

    kevindcornwell

    kevindcornwell

    kevindcornwell

    Magma Mountain Rocketry

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hilo Hawaii
    Yah, Terry and I have been conversing. I haven't discussed this with him yet, but it's on the ToDo list. He is a critical contact on this one. :) Thanks.
     
  8. Dec 7, 2018 #8

    blackjack2564

    blackjack2564

    blackjack2564

    Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    8,273
    Likes Received:
    375
    Location:
    Savannah Ga
    Years ago I was contacted by [sorry guys don't remember proper term] head of Shaw Airforce bases bombing range. He wanted us to simulate SAM missiles so pilots could actually see what it looked like have something real headed at them. Also wanted a fun launch so base workers and family could attend. So our club could put it on, or whatever members or invited fliers wished to attend. It did not matter wether just 2-3 of us,came or the whole club. They just wanted a launch.

    Any how I was told all bases have standing waiver of 24,000 ft with special ones [call ins] in some areas where needed.
    They controlled all the airspace needed. There is no waiver as we think of, since it is off limits to anyone, other than military,. unless permission is granted

    All we had to do was show up at specified time..nothing else required. Set up & launch, properly of course. The only caveat was, they could get a call any time, and need to shut us down when an unannounced plane might arrive.
    Not all flights are common knowledge or scheduled.
    Then we were to continue flying after all clear.
    It was a beautiful place to fly and I went there several times for logistics. No other person need be contacted other than him. They wanted to do a weekend launch tied in with exhibits and fun stuff for all the families on base. They even had bleachers for viewing spectators at safe launch distances.

    We were this....close, then I had to leave for 6 months, and we never did it. But on their end it was a "go"

    THE most important thing is to contact and negotiate with the proper person. No other permission is needed, he handled it all, and it was simple to implement the event.

    Tripoli insurance and any involvement or "permissions" by Tripoli or ANY other Organization were not required ,nor had any bearing on the event. At least where I was....but I did enquire and was told this could be done at any similar base across the country.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  9. Dec 7, 2018 #9

    Banzai88

    Banzai88

    Banzai88

    Lvl 1,Wallet....Destroyed

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,573
    Likes Received:
    72
    My local rocket club used to launch at one of the local Navy outlying landing fields (about 3 years ago). I was also a member of the RC ariplane club that flew at the same facility, alternating weekends with the rocket guys. You have to comply with ALL of the military regulations, including paperwork and reporting criteria for damn near everything related to base access and activities. We often joked that even RC airplane crashes had to be reported as aviation mishaps, since a potential FOD hazard was created......and YES, base personnel did monitor our activities and inspect the area after we departed to ensure proper clean up and compliance.

    There was a 'mishap' that lead to a suspension of flight activities with the rocket club. Never resumed flight activities due to a change in a policy of 'Public use of Military Land'. They kicked EVERYONE off of the base that wasn't 'official military use' related.

    Even the scouts were kicked off the base on every base in our area. :(

    Good luck.
     

Share This Page