Estes E-12-9 CATO
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berlinetta
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Can anyone decipher the date code on my E12-4s?
H 19 02 20
Are these from the problem years?
H 19 02 20
Are these from the problem years?
lakeroadster
When in doubt... build hell-for-stout!
Why were you using an Estes E12... when there are so many other motors, such as an Aerotech E26? Was it a throw away rocket?
lakeroadster
When in doubt... build hell-for-stout!
271 MESS Reports for E12's
14 MESS Reports for E26's
You must be a very unlucky rocketeer
Most of the Cato reports for the E12 are for date codes before early 2022, when they made some production changes. Look it up. I've never had an E12 cato. I watched a friend launch 8-10 at Rocketober in Brothers OR a month ago with no issues. Even I couldn't believe. OTOH, at some recent club launches, I've witnessed a few blow out the top. Don't know about date codes on those, except one was recent. But I'm 0/6 on E26s. Granted, the date code on 4 of those was acknowledged to be problematic. (was told by AT - don't launch).
Hans.
@lakeroadster
Well, it seems Estes QC may be slipping again.
A little over a year ago, I watched an interview of Bill Stine where he was asked about the E12 issues. He said that they had isolated the largest failure rate to motors made in certain times of the year (winter, I believe, but my memory may be a bit fuzzy on that..), and that they modified the manufacturing process to increase reliability. I heard - unconfirmed - that the solution was to fill the casing in stages. i.e. - fill, compress, fill, compress, etc. Or possibly more iterations than before. Whatever.
Anyway, last winter I looked up all the failures of the previous 2 years. Nearly all the catos were from date codes before when Bill Stine said they modified their process. High fives all around, problem solved. But just now, I see that over the year since I last looked, catos have increased dramatically. They seem to center around 2 dates: 22 10 22 (mostly) and 23 03 23 (with a couple of 23 02 23). Note that there are still some much older motors being reported.
Which makes me wonder. How many days out of the year are E12s produced? Were all recent production motors made on those 2 dates? That would be bad, as it would insinuate that any newer E12s are suspect. Or were there many manufacturing dates? Which would be much better, as that means there are some reliable motors out there with no reported defects.
I have a pack each of 22 10 22 and 23 03 23. Time to dust off the Vortico.
Hans.
Just Great, my "Stash" of E12s I bought a whole bunch of BP motors when Estes went up for sale "just to be sure" is before that date. I will keep this in mind and test a few in a too good for school spool or something.
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Alpha bulk pack kits built MD.
LOL. Great. Lose it either way: 1. Successful flight is "outa here", never to be seen again. Or: 2. Boom.
Hans.
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Yes, this was a model for E altitude at NARAM-61 in Muncie. Everyone was using E6-8s, and most of us were depending on the largesse of other competitors to return models they found so that altimeter readings could be taken. I was one of those, though I did find one of my two flights' worth on my own.
My model was just a little bigger than an Alpha and used an Alpha VI nose cone to house both the altimeter and a bit of ballast.The fins were a bit smaller and much thinner. I placed 3rd in C division. The winner did a MUCH better job eliminating surface drag on his models, and he beat the rest of us by a significant margin. The next three places were very close to one another. https://www.nar.org/contest-flying/naram-the-nationals/naram-history/naram-61-results/#event6
A few had Walston trackers in their models. I don't think it helped much.
dpower
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Absolute numbers like this are useful only if the total numbers flown of each type are known. I wouldn't be surprised if there is at least a 100:1 ratio of E12 to E26 motors flown, but that's just a SWAG. I doubt sales numbers would ever be published by manufacturers, and even if they were, the ratio of flown:sold would still be unknown.
Still, personally, I've had more E12 failures than any other type of Estes motor, and even though those were the dreaded early 2011 date codes, I'm still a bit cautious about which rockets I fly them in. I've been flying a lot of Estes E16 & F15 motors, and they've been very reliable for me.
dpower
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Spoke too soon! Had an E12-8 blow out both ends today, date code C 21 03 21. It was quite a sight! On the bright side, flew a new Enerjet E24, Q-Jet E26, and Q-Jet F41, all flew great. Still, I do like the long burntime of an an E12. MESS submitted, Estes contacted.
I plan on using a lot more E-12s next season, even though I had 3 CATOs last year. For the price they can't be beat. E-20s are not worth 2 and a half times the price. An E-12-8 took my little MD rocket to 2,460 Ft and the E-12-6 and E-12-4 work very well in in anything from BT-50 thru BT-80. With Hazmat fees gone the E-12 and F-15s, I'll be upsizing quite a bit this year.
Not sure what the letter code means, but I observed a A 21 03 21 blow both ends a couple of months ago. It doesn't look like he filed a Cato report on it.
Hans.
My current failure packs are J22 10 22, and B23 03 23, and in my last Estes ticket i got a good pack of 3 (no catos), and they also said they are aware of the issue with this, but I don't know why they haven't issued a full recall. Hopefully every one else has been having better luck with the new packs
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