Congress says some UFOs have a non-human origin.

[Zbench]

I appreciate and admire your optimism that finality can be reached before long. Alas, I think the gatekeepers of UAP information and access are organized, massed and determined to protect the public from this knowledge. Long ago the Brookings Institution determined that public awareness of alien artifacts in the solar system could lead to social destruction, and the gatekeepers have long since taken this warning to heart. Frankly, when you get even a little bit beneath the surface of the phenomena, you find abundant paranormal and religious implications which we really, really don't want to deal with at this juncture of our history.

I agree 100%. But, the power of the purse is the ultimate power. And it seems like those in Congress are not afraid to wield it as it relates to this. If what Grusch says is true, then many felonies have been committed. When Congress appropriates money it specifies the purpose. When you decide to use it for something other than what Congress appropriates it for, it’s called an “illegal transfer”. Clearly since Congress knows nothing about these alleged programs, plenty of illegal transfers have taken place. That in large part what Grusch alleges. Further, nothing fires up Congress more than going against their wishes as it relates to appropriations. I wouldn’t bet against them getting to the bottom of this.

 

[Dotini]

I agree 100%. But, the power of the purse is the ultimate power. And it seems like those in Congress are not afraid to wield it as it relates to this. If what Grusch says is true, then many felonies have been committed. When Congress appropriates money it specifies the purpose. When you decide to use it for something other than what Congress appropriates it for, it’s called an “illegal transfer”. Clearly since Congress knows nothing about these alleged programs, plenty of illegal transfers have taken place. That in large part what Grusch alleges. Further, nothing fires up Congress more than going against their wishes as it relates to appropriations. I wouldn’t bet against them getting to the bottom of this.

I wish us all the best of luck in getting rid of corruption in congress, the military and the defense industry.

 

[jderimig]

I appreciate and admire your optimism that finality can be reached before long. Alas, I think the gatekeepers of UAP information and access are organized, massed and determined to protect the public from this knowledge. Long ago the Brookings Institution determined that public awareness of alien artifacts in the solar system could lead to social destruction, and the gatekeepers have long since taken this warning to heart. Frankly, when you get even a little bit beneath the surface of the phenomena, you find abundant paranormal and religious implications which we really, really don't want to deal with at this juncture of our history.

 

[techrat]

Long ago the Brookings Institution determined that public awareness of alien artifacts in the solar system could lead to social destruction, and the gatekeepers have long since taken this warning to heart.

We are running headlong towards authoritarianism and nuclear annihilation. If anything, revealing that we are not alone in the universe might actually bring the world together and we can start on a new path of making contact with these other life forms assuming they still exist. I for one welcome our alien overlords.

 

[Cnorm]

I'd be willing to testify in any court in the United States under the penalty of perjury that I have heard from multiple sources:

- Aliens exist on Earth
- Ghosts exist
- Bigfoot is real
- Earth is flat
- The moon landing was faked
- Your momma's so fat her butt has its own zip code.
- Pimpin' ain't easy.
- My car warranty has expired.
- I owe the IRS money.

I don't believe any of those. At all. But I'd testify under oath that people told me so.

 

[alexzogh]

Oh, I get that. Scientists say that Top Fuel Dragsters shouldn't be able to go more than 300mph, and yet the Dragster guys keep proving them wrong.
But that's not what I'm saying. Einstein's claim is that nothing goes faster than light, and to do that you'd need infinite energy. But so far no one has been able to prove him wrong. I'm the first one to admit that our understanding of the universe is scratching the surface of a tremenous iceburg. There's more we do not know than we know. That said, Einstein's math was pretty much dead on about a lot of stuff. But he didn't accept quantum theory. Hell, I don't accept the Big Bang Theory (or the sitcom of the same name).

But if little green men are making the trip across millions of light years, they aren't doing it in spaceships. And they certainly wouldn't be hiding themselves, if they are that far ahead of us technologically. And I'm not sure if you understand what I'm saying.

They would literally appear to be magical beings. Gods even. We wouldn't understand their mode of transport. It would be like if you were able to travel back in time with your iphone and showed it to cavemen. They have no understanding of batteries, electronics or LCD displays. It would just be magic. That's how we'd be like to them.

Dr. Alcubierre didn't prove Einstein wrong - he mathematically proved you could go faster than light and not break relativity -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Alcubierre

 

[greylond]

Many excellent points have been made. I looked up the Holman rule. It may be possible to force the SCIF under threat of withholding funding, but if the allegations are true, it would still be hard to know if the panel had been shown everything. Whistle blowers credit our government with keeping a 75 year secret? Then they could for another 75 just as easily. Anecdotal hearsay is all Grusch brought, (was allowed to bring) but it appears to have captured bipartisan interest. Lou Elizando brought the tic tac, go fast, and gimbal videos. As of 2017, everyone can agree we've been seeing something. No way to know what it is, but at least it exists. I've read enough "high strangeness" aspects in well documented cases to make me pretty uncomfortable. I mean pretty far outside the box. A thousand years ahead? A million? An intelligence far enough ahead of us could (probably would) be impossible to comprehend or even describe using our chimpanzee brain and fresh off the savanna experiences. Terrifying. Still gotta find out though, curious monkeys.

 

[Dotini]

Photo: Drew Angerer/Getty Images

Last week, Senator Chuck Schumer proposed legislation that would declassify as many records as possible regarding the Pentagon’s experience with unidentified foreign objects. It was a step toward actual clarity from the government: This is the Senate majority leader after all, not just some crackpot backbencher in the House. But some UFO believers remained concerned that the bill, modeled after the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act, would leave key documents in the dark, as the JFK bill has.

A deeper look at the bill, provided by The Hill, shows that Schumer is serious about getting the UFO info out there. While previous bills about UFOs have mostly dealt with transparency around internal reporting of national security matters, Schumer’s amendment to the annual Defense policy bill requires “any and all recovered [UFOs] and biological evidence of non-human intelligence that may be controlled by private persons or entities” to be handed over to a Senate-appointed review board. The board would then determine which evidence could be released to the public. While it’s possible that the panel would be able to withhold evidence from the public to protect national security information-collecting practices, it would also be required by law to “carry a presumption of immediate disclosure” to the public.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/202...-bill-is-not-messing-around-about-aliens.html

 

[mitchboese]

Many excellent points have been made. I looked up the Holman rule. It may be possible to force the SCIF under threat of withholding funding, but if the allegations are true, it would still be hard to know if the panel had been shown everything. Whistle blowers credit our government with keeping a 75 year secret? Then they could for another 75 just as easily. Anecdotal hearsay is all Grusch brought, (was allowed to bring) but it appears to have captured bipartisan interest. Lou Elizando brought the tic tac, go fast, and gimbal videos. As of 2017, everyone can agree we've been seeing something. No way to know what it is, but at least it exists. I've read enough "high strangeness" aspects in well documented cases to make me pretty uncomfortable. I mean pretty far outside the box. A thousand years ahead? A million? An intelligence far enough ahead of us could (probably would) be impossible to comprehend or even describe using our chimpanzee brain and fresh off the savanna experiences. Terrifying. Still gotta find out though, curious monkeys.

Believing we came from monkeys takes a much larger leap of faith than believing in little green men.

Many excellent points have been made. I looked up the Holman rule. It may be possible to force the SCIF under threat of withholding funding, but if the allegations are true, it would still be hard to know if the panel had been shown everything. Whistle blowers credit our government with keeping a 75 year secret? Then they could for another 75 just as easily. Anecdotal hearsay is all Grusch brought, (was allowed to bring) but it appears to have captured bipartisan interest. Lou Elizando brought the tic tac, go fast, and gimbal videos. As of 2017, everyone can agree we've been seeing something. No way to know what it is, but at least it exists. I've read enough "high strangeness" aspects in well documented cases to make me pretty uncomfortable. I mean pretty far outside the box. A thousand years ahead? A million? An intelligence far enough ahead of us could (probably would) be impossible to comprehend or even describe using our chimpanzee brain and fresh off the savanna experiences. Terrifying. Still gotta find out though, curious monkeys.

Believing we came from monkeys takes a much larger leap of faith than believing in little green men.

 

[techrat]

Believing we came from monkeys takes a much larger leap of faith than believing in little green men.

Yes, we spontaneously appeared from magical goo. Or maybe we evolved from the dinosaurs, which would certainly explain some people's reptillian nature.

 

[jderimig]

Photo: Drew Angerer/Getty Images

Last week, Senator Chuck Schumer proposed legislation that would declassify as many records as possible regarding the Pentagon’s experience with unidentified foreign objects. It was a step toward actual clarity from the government: This is the Senate majority leader after all, not just some crackpot backbencher in the House. But some UFO believers remained concerned that the bill, modeled after the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act, would leave key documents in the dark, as the JFK bill has.

A deeper look at the bill, provided by The Hill, shows that Schumer is serious about getting the UFO info out there. While previous bills about UFOs have mostly dealt with transparency around internal reporting of national security matters, Schumer’s amendment to the annual Defense policy bill requires “any and all recovered [UFOs] and biological evidence of non-human intelligence that may be controlled by private persons or entities” to be handed over to a Senate-appointed review board. The board would then determine which evidence could be released to the public. While it’s possible that the panel would be able to withhold evidence from the public to protect national security information-collecting practices, it would also be required by law to “carry a presumption of immediate disclosure” to the public.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/202...-bill-is-not-messing-around-about-aliens.html

There is a murkey separation of powers issue here. The legislative branch does not have the power to declassify anything without the executive branch concurring, and the legislative branch cannot dictate to the executive branch without some pushback and probable court battle.

 

[Dotini]

There is a murkey separation of powers issue here. The legislative branch does not have the power to declassify anything without the executive branch concurring, and the legislative branch cannot dictate to the executive branch without some pushback and probable court battle.

That's a very astute catch on your part. Kudos.

However, I think that may have already been taken care of. According to a deeper dive into Schumer's plan, there is this:

"Following a recommendation from the review board, the legislation establishes the president as the “sole and nondelegable authority to disclose” UFO-related records to the public.

Given this elevation of authority directly to the president, it is likely that the Schumer-led Senate coordinated or consulted with the Biden White House before proposing such extraordinary legislation."

https://thehill.com/opinion/technol...chumer-proposes-stunning-new-ufo-legislation/

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/202...-bill-is-not-messing-around-about-aliens.html

 

[Zbench]

There is a murkey separation of powers issue here. The legislative branch does not have the power to declassify anything without the executive branch concurring, and the legislative branch cannot dictate to the executive branch without some pushback and probable court battle.

I disagree. Congress has the sole power to appropriate money, and has a constitutional right to know if their wishes passed through appropriations bills has been complied with.

Further, they all have clearances at least through secret, and I’m sure the select committee they are talking about forming will have the highest clearances.

Finally, saying that we are being visited by aliens is not a national security issue. It a hubris and pride issue to suggest something is happening that the brain trust in Washington does not have completely figured out.

Time will tell. One thing is clear. This is bipartisan which is extremely rare and Congress is done messing around and demands answers. And as our elected representatives, they want to provide those answers to their constituents.

 

[Zbench]

Given this elevation of authority directly to the president, it is likely that the Schumer-led Senate coordinated or consulted with the Biden White House before proposing such extraordinary legislation."

Not quite. The President always has been, and remains the sole classification authority in these United States. If the President says it’s classified, it’s classified. If the President waves his hand and says behold, what was once secret is now unclassified, it becomes so.

He does not need special permission from Congress to do anything.

 

[jderimig]

I disagree. Congress has the sole power to appropriate money,

The power to control military information solely rests with the executive branch by statute consistent with the US Constitution. You may argue the existence of Aliens visiting earth is not an national security issue but that is not your call. That call rests solely with the military establishment and the executive branch. It may be litigated by the SCOTUS but the SCOTUS will likely maintain that.

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/secrecy/RS21900.pdf

 

[Zbench]

The power to control military information solely rests with the executive branch by statute consistent with the US Constitution. You may argue the existence of Aliens visiting earth is not an national security issue but that is not your call. That call rests solely with the military establishment. It may be litigated by the SCOTUS but the SCOTUS will likely maintain that.

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/secrecy/RS21900.pdf

Agreed, as previously noted.

 

[techrat]

Well, all I'm going to say is that if UFOs are real, and the government has known about them for 50+ years, then clearly SHADO is also real, and somewhere Ed Straker is ordering Lt. Ellis to go ahead and launch Interceptors after that UFO that was detected by SID.

 

[Cape Byron]

Well, all I'm going to say is that if UFOs are real, and the government has known about them for 50+ years, then clearly SHADO is also real, and somewhere Ed Straker is ordering Lt. Ellis to go ahead and launch Interceptors after that UFO that was detected by SID.

Okay, now I’m awake.

 

[alexzogh]

Well, all I'm going to say is that if UFOs are real, and the government has known about them for 50+ years, then clearly SHADO is also real, and somewhere Ed Straker is ordering Lt. Ellis to go ahead and launch Interceptors after that UFO that was detected by SID.

 

[Cape Byron]

Oh yes.

 

[rcktnut]

They're out there!!

 

[Dotini]

They're out there!!

View attachment 594947

Yes, it now seems established beyond most reasonable doubt that there is anomalous phenomena which needs to be better understood and explained. Assuming just for a moment that there is a non-human intelligence involved, do we have enough historical perspective to rationally speculate on its motivations and intentions?

 

[jderimig]

Yes, it now seems established beyond most reasonable doubt that there is anomalous phenomena which needs to be better understood and explained. Assuming just for a moment that there is a non-human intelligence involved, do we have enough historical perspective to rationally speculate on its motivations and intentions?

Maybe its God's advance crew. After all he's/she's/they is the only one who can suspend the laws of physics.

 

[techrat]

Assuming just for a moment that there is a non-human intelligence involved, do we have enough historical perspective to rationally speculate on its motivations and intentions?

Here's the part that bothers me the most about space aliens visiting our planet:

Fermi's Paradox: If they were really out there, we would have detected them by now. Any space-faring civilization wants to expand, and that means colonies. If you're the most powerful race in the galaxy, you want to have access to the most resources and that means conquering other worlds. As Enrico Fermi questioned "Where are they then?" if a species is colonizing, and even if it takes them hundreds of years to reach another habital star-system/planet, if we assume that a space-faring civilization is even a few thousand years more advanced than we are, they still would have colonized quite a few other planets, so many in fact, that they would be detectable.

We would hear them and we would see them. Both radio and visual telescopes would have picked up some trace. Megastructures in space. Evidence of massive multi-generational transports. Signals above and beyond interstellar noise.

And, assuming they like our atmosphere, they'd be trying to colonize this planet and extract resources to take home. So where are they?

 

[Dotini]

Here's the part that bothers me the most about space aliens visiting our planet:

Fermi's Paradox: If they were really out there, we would have detected them by now. Any space-faring civilization wants to expand, and that means colonies. If you're the most powerful race in the galaxy, you want to have access to the most resources and that means conquering other worlds. As Enrico Fermi questioned "Where are they then?" if a species is colonizing, and even if it takes them hundreds of years to reach another habital star-system/planet, if we assume that a space-faring civilization is even a few thousand years more advanced than we are, they still would have colonized quite a few other planets, so many in fact, that they would be detectable.

We would hear them and we would see them. Both radio and visual telescopes would have picked up some trace. Megastructures in space. Evidence of massive multi-generational transports. Signals above and beyond interstellar noise.

And, assuming they like our atmosphere, they'd be trying to colonize this planet and extract resources to take home. So where are they?

Possibly some very good points. Since there is no attempt to colonize or obvious attempt to extract resources, colonization and exploitation may be ruled out as possible motives and intentions. Combined with no obvious source or origin, might we logically be able to rule out "ET", or biological aliens from another planet, as the origin of the anomalous phenomena?

 

[teepot]

I don't see any reason why an ET would want to conquer an inhabited planet. Between asteroids and uninhabited planets around natural resources should be easy to get. The reason why I think they are here is to study a new race. Or trying to decide if contacting us is safe for us or them. The human race can be violent. My be we scare them and they are keeping an eye on us. The fact that visual contact has been made by the military leads me to hope for first contact.

 

[Dotini]

I don't see any reason why an ET would want to conquer an inhabited planet. Between asteroids and uninhabited planets around natural resources should be easy to get. The reason why I think they are here is to study a new race. Or trying to decide if contacting us is safe for us or them. The human race can be violent. My be we scare them and they are keeping an eye on us. The fact that visual contact has been made by the military leads me to hope for first contact.

Sixty or more schoolchildren were contacted by the phenomena a few years ago and given dire warnings about the future of the planet. This was the famous Ariel School encounter. So the possibility arises these were not merely ET's, but telepathic time travelers, a psychic phenomena of consciousness. The children, grown-ups today, maintain the truth of their story.

 

[OverTheTop]

A guy I worked with went to a primary school in Westall that had something land in a nearby field. He remembers seeing the ufo land, and is completely certain what they saw was real. The site was very quickly cordoned off and they were told that they didn't see anything.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westall_UFO

 

[Dotini]

Where do we go from here? We're really not too sure.

 

[techrat]

Meanwhile:
https://www.iflscience.com/enormous... a structure,asteroid that formed the crater.
Because we all know that the moon is hollow. It's a gigantic alien generational spaceship. It's how intelligent life was seeded on Earth. We are our own aliens.