RocketMan1234
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I just wanted to know if you can build J and higher solid motors at home without Level 1 Certification. Also if there are any federal or state regulations in the California, US that prohibit it.
Can you build J and higher motors at home without having a Level 1 Certification?
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to the forum. I'll let others give some answers.
'Build'?
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A J motor is a Level 2 motor... not Level 1.
2, 5, 6, Enter... 2:56 later.... beep, beep, beep.
Welcome to the forum!
What rocketry experience do you have?
You would be advised to contact your local rocketry club and discuss your ideas with them. They will likely advise you to not attempt to make your own motors without having the appropriate qualifications, experience and suitable facilities. I don’t think your home insurance policy would cover motor building if things went pear shaped!
Why J and above?
What rocketry experience do you have?
You would be advised to contact your local rocketry club and discuss your ideas with them. They will likely advise you to not attempt to make your own motors without having the appropriate qualifications, experience and suitable facilities. I don’t think your home insurance policy would cover motor building if things went pear shaped!
Why J and above?
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Mixing propellant is an inherently dangerous activity and the only way to make it safe is to learn from someone who has good experience and conducts the work in a safe setting with proper PPE and materials. The manufacturing and transportation of EX Propellant in California is only permissible by those with the proper pyrotechnic licenses. Why do you want a J motor? Have you ever mixed an F,G, or H motor yet? J motors are L2 and you will most likely not even be sold any research supplies without a L2 to begin with. EX prop manufacturing in California falls under a different set of laws than Tripoli laws and requires real pyrotechnic licenses that are administered by the state. I was told this by the LAFD Fire chief at an RRS meeting a few years ago.
Rocketjunkie
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You can make them, just can't fly or test them at a Tripoli launch. To fly on your own, you must file a FAA waiver for your flying field.
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My understanding is CA requires rocket motors of any size to be certified by the state fire marshall. So that is effectively a no-EX blanket rule for the state.
From what I understand this is incorrect. California is a state that has adopted the NFPA code into its laws. These codes prohibit:
- NFPA 1122 code forbids using uncertified model rocket motors: 4.19.1 Only commercially manufactured, certified model rocket motors or motor reloading kits or components as specified in NFPA 1125 shall be used
- NFPA 1122 code forbids making model rocket engines.5.1 Prohibited Activities. The following activities shall be prohibited by this code: (5) Making, operating, launching, flying, testing, activating, discharging, or other experimentation with model rocket motors, motor reloading kits, or motor components that have not been certified in accordance with NFPA 1125
Most states have adopted NFPA 1127 as law. Among the prohibited acts described by NFPA 1127 is possession, use, or storage of a high power rocket motor or reload by someone who is not a certified user other than for use in certification.
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You can do anything you want on your last day.
If you live in California you should know almost everything is illegal, esp. in a city.
I've never met anyone from the US that describes their location in the format of state, country. I also have not met everyone in the US so it's possible that someone could. It's also possible that pigs could fly, small pigs with J motors.
So, making motors requires level 3 cert or pyro license?
I’m not clear on what you’re asking, if your question is about California or nationwide.
There is no legal requirement for L3 certification to make motors. The Tripoli Safety Code requires L2 certification in order to fly self-made (Research) motors at Tripoli launches, but that should not be confused with law.
California does impose a requirement for a Pyro license, but California is completely different from all other states.
APCP is not regulated by the federal government so no license is federally required, but as mentioned above some states have adopted NFPA 1122, 1125, and 1227 as part of their building codes or fire codes. Certification is required to possess high power motors except for purposes of certification. This is the kind of law that probably never would result in charges unless something bad has already happened, but it’s important that our members know and understand the laws.
That is because the OP is a bot or someone lurking for nefarious purposes and everyone falls for it.
Lots of that going on lately. Lots of new members who are immediately fishing for information on questionable things.
Exactly. The OP's question is analogous to someone asking for flight training but stating they have no interest in learning to land. I think we should not be educating people who ask questions like this at all, not even explaining what the applicable laws and regulations are to do things safely and legitimately. This just gives information to help them on their journey to bad outcomes.
And he hasn’t logged back in since posting.
boatgeek
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OK, this absolutely drives me up a tree. People who are looking for information on how to make motors for Bad Purposes or Questionable Things don't come here and ask what's legal. They go to any of a dozen other places on the web that have all of the information that they need to make a J motor. The OP asked what the rules were, not what motor formula they should use or how big a motor you need to launch a rocket with a 10-kilo payload 30 miles downrange. We should be welcoming people who come and ask what the rules are because we want people to follow the rules. The shortest step to knowing what the rules are is asking experts.
As far as referring to CA as CA, US ... it may shock and amaze people, but there are a number of people who currently live in the US for whom English is not their native language. Many of them even live in California! Some (gasp) may be interested in rocketry! Obviously, our best approach is to call them terrorists in ever-so-slightly-veiled language. Then we can go right over to the thread wondering why there's so few young people interested in rocketry.
Just like people that are looking to fly planes into buildings wouldn't go to an actual flight school because they would be afraid of getting caught?
Good or bad intentions, people come here to learn about rocketry (and also debate and hypothesize COVID, UFOs and lots of other non-rocketry stuff). Being able to discern intentions is an important aspect of providing information about rocketry here IMO. I have no problem whatsoever helping someone unless I feel they have bad intentions that would ultimately hurt the hobby. The question and the way it was asked trips some red flags for me. Ignore them if you want but they are clearly there.
boatgeek
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It's not at all about getting caught. It's about ease of access to information. If you want to get your hands on an actual plane yoke, you have to go to a flight school. If you want a J sugar motor design, you can go right on over to Nakka's site and find it without even having to ask a question. Not to mention that the OP didn't ask how to make a J motor (formulas, casings, etc. etc.), just about whether it was legal.
Me, I like to wait until someone asks for potentially dangerous information to assume that they are a danger. But if you want to see red flags under every rock and assume that someone with odd English syntax asking about the rules is a terrorist, that's your right.
PayLoad
I don't do spirals
You can make a thermonuclear device if you want. Just can't legally use it anywhere
rharshberger
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Uh, no you may not, the Possession of Special Nuclear Materials is prohibited by US Law...10 CFR 50, SNR includes Plutonium and Enriched Uranium both necessary to build nuclear or atomic devices.
PayLoad
I don't do spirals
I said you CAN do anything - whether it is allowed or not is a different topic
rharshberger
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Not really...I work in nuclear clean-up on a WA superfund site...security and opsec briefings make sure EVERYONE knows that stuff is only legally owned by the USA.Hmm it seems like you have put a lot of thought into this….
IMO someone asking on their first post ever if they can make J motors without being L1 certified is definitely a potentially dangerous situation. The fact that our safety regulations basically say you shouldn't be making any motors at all unless you are L2 certified confirms I'm not way off base in that assessment.
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rharshberger
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Not really, many fissiles are Alpha emitters, and after the refinement process, the beta/gamma emitters are pretty much removed Alpha radiation can be shielded by a single sheet of copier paper (used to be typing paper....), beta gamma on the other hand require lead, earth, concrete, etc, nuetron is usually shielded with mineral oil iirc. But beta/gamma emitters would definitely deal with wanna be smugglers (there are people in terrorist factions who are more than willing to carry their own death though, like the KGB/Bulgarian assasins who used the Polonium pellets to kill the russian defector in England)Seems like fissile material smuggling would be a self correcting problem
Note: I am not a nuclear physicist/engineer so I could be totally mistaken.
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