Heavy Metal Thunder

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

jadebox

Roger Smith
TRF Sponsor
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
5,948
Reaction score
593
My latest scratch-built project is a large rocket based on 8" concrete form tubes. In addition to being my "Level 2 Certification" rocket, I'm using "Heavy Metal Thunder" to test some of the ideas I'll use for building a 1/48th scale Saturn V and to develop the techniques I'll need for the Saturn V.



Like the Saturn V, HMT will support a cluster of five motors and have an option for airstarting the outboard motors. It will be about the same size and weight as the Saturn V and use the same electronics.

In contrast to my Level 1 project, I'm trying to spend as little as possible on this project. So I'm doing most everything myself from cutting the centering rings to forming a nose cone.

The body tubes and coupler are made from concrete form tubes. I picked out two 8" tubes that are actually about 8.5" outside diameter and one 8" tube that has an outside diameter of about 7 3/4". The larger tubes will be used for the upper and lower body tubes. The smaller tube will be used for the coupler and nose cone shoulder.



The photo shows a simple jig I created to mark the tubes for cutting. Then I used a jig saw to cut along the lines.

Then I created a nose cone from, of all things, a lamp shade and half of a foam ball.



I covered the lamp shade with a few layers of fiber glass and filled it with expanding foam then glued it to a shoulder I fashioned from a piece of the concrete form tube and a hand-crafted plywood bulkhead.

To cut the bulkhead, I created a jig from a piece of wood that clamps to my drill press's table. The wood for the bulkhead rotates on a screw in the jig. I put a Dremel cutting bit in the drill press and slowly turned the piece of wood until it was cut into a circle. I found that the jig slipped a little and won't cut the circles as well as I would like. So, I used it to cut a circle about 1/4" too large. Then I used a Dremel circle cutter and my Dremel to trim it to size. This worked a lot better and was easier than trying to use the Dremel circle cutter directly.

I think my next step will be to cut the fins from 1/4" plywood to which I'll add a layer of fiberglass.

Additional Photos and descriptions of the build are at:

https://www.payloadbay.com/article-heavy-medal-thunder-build.html

-- Roger

View attachment thunder - dual deploy.rkt
 
Lamp shades Ha! The stuff people will use for a scratchbuild never ceases to amaze me. Excellent job!



So, do you have a wife that can't find her lamp shade?:D
 
Originally posted by jadebox
I created a nose cone from, of all things, a lamp shade and half of a foam ball.
I covered the lamp shade with a few layers of fiber glass and filled it with expanding foam
[Guinness voice]Brilliant![/Guinness]

Did your sims show that nose weight won't be necessary (especially with
all the tubes filled with motors)? Or how to you plan to accomodate that?
 
Originally posted by brianc
[Guinness voice]Brilliant![/Guinness]

Did your sims show that nose weight won't be necessary (especially with all the tubes filled with motors)? Or how to you plan to accomodate that?

Right now it doesn't look like nose weight will be needed. But, if it is, there's plenty of room in the shoulder of the nose cone to add weight.

Of course, I'll have to refine the model as I determine the actual weights of the finished parts.

Originally, I was going to make the motor mount a subassembly that could be slid into the back of the rocket. This would allow access to the airstart timer and wiring and would allow me to use the same assembly with the Saturn V. Also, in the case of the Saturn V, it would allow me to display it using the fake nozzles that Sheri supplies in her kit. But I've scrapped that idea because it is more complicated and adds weight to the back of the rocket. I still need to work out where to mount the timer and switch, and how to run the wires.

-- Roger
 
Originally posted by jadebox
I updated the RockSim file a little. I added a section of body tube to the electroncs bay and shortened the motor mount tubes for the outside motors.-- Roger

Good idea.....
The addition of the short length of BT will benefit you come launch day. Keeping your e-bay more accessible will be in your favor seeing that you may want to re-check them a few times just to be safe. Having to pull the whole subassembly out to do this would add more time.....and stress!
I know you wanted this motor mount assembly to double for the Saturn V, however playing it safe and dedicating the rocket with its own respective e-bay is always a better idea.
I'm still jazzin on the lampshade.... :D

Nice project......keep us posted
 
Originally posted by Chris TNR
Good idea.....
The addition of the short length of BT will benefit you come launch day. Keeping your e-bay more accessible will be in your favor seeing that you may want to re-check them a few times just to be safe. Having to pull the whole subassembly out to do this would add more time.....and stress!

And ... the eBay's so big that I might be able to add a camera later. :)

I'm still jazzin on the lampshade.... :D

Nice project......keep us posted [/B]

Thanks!

I've drawn a template for the fins. I'm using a trapezoidal shape similar to the fins on my EZI-65. The shape isn't best for performance, but holds up well. I'm going to have to buy some more plywood - with TTW tabs to the center engine mount, the fins are going to be huge (at least compared to what I've done before).

A friend suggest using G10 for the fins which is probably a good idea to reduce the weight. But I've worked with plywood before and it's less expensive. So I'm going with 1/4" plywood with a layer of fiberglass.

-- Roger
 
progress report?

All I've accomplished in the past couple of weeks is to cut out a few centering rings for the motor mount.

I started by cutting out rough discs from a sheet of 1/4" plywood.



Then I used a simple jig attached to my drill press along with a Dremel cutting bit to cut the circles a little closer to the right size.



I don't have a photo, but I then shaved the circles down to the right size by using a Dremel circle cutting tool. I held a ring and the circle-cutting tool in my hands. I insterted the point of the circle-cutting tool into the hole in the ring and adjusted it to shave off a tiny bit - about 1/8" - and ran it around the edge of the ring. This cut the disc down to just the right size.

-- Roger
 
Okay ... I've made a strange change to my design. The HMT is going to have eight fins. The reason is that I'm still trying to prototype the Saturn V I'm going to build later. In order to avoid having to add several pounds of weight to the fragile nose of the Saturn V, I've decided to add four clear Lexan fins spaced in between the Saturn V's fins. Since they'll be small (the same size and basic shape as the Saturn V's fins) and will be positioned where the roll pattern transitions from black to white, I don't think they'll be very obvious. But they change the margin of stability from about .6 to about 2 times the diameter - without any weight added to the nose.

So, to match the fins of the Saturn V, I'm going to build the HMT with eight similar sized fins. I'm considering making all eight fins out of Lexan which would give the rocket a Titan-like look. I could morph this design into a Titan II. Hmmmmm.........

-- Roger
 
.....snip.........So, to match the fins of the Saturn V, I'm going to build the HMT with eight similar sized fins. I'm considering making all eight fins out of Lexan which would give the rocket a Titan-like look. I could morph this design into a Titan II. Hmmmmm.........

-- Roger

Well, you could always morph it into one of my favorites....a Delta IV Medium 5+2 or 5+4? Your nose cone planform is basically how our composite Bi-Sectors are.

Can't wait to see it!!:cool:
 
Wow,
looks great Roger...

...just don't forget to peel all that
slippery yellow fiber/paper off the tubes before
glassing...
:)

I hope to see it fly @ NEFAR one of these days...
 
Wow,
looks great Roger...

...just don't forget to peel all that
slippery yellow fiber/paper off the tubes before
glassing...
:)

I hope to see it fly @ NEFAR one of these days...

ho does not have to. I talked with a person that actually new about contracting and what they had at the store and he said the quickrete tubes carried in most stores are only waxed on the inside, not the outside. I mean he could peel the outside but it isn't totally necessary.

Ben
 
If I saw that nosecone sitting alone on a table, I would think it were ugly. But that nosecone looks killer on this rocket!
 
ho does not have to. I talked with a person that actually new about contracting and what they had at the store and he said the quickrete tubes carried in most stores are only waxed on the inside, not the outside. I mean he could peel the outside but it isn't totally necessary.
Ben

Ummm....

...and how do you think epoxy will
soak into the tube thru that stuff ??

BTW, on the 8" one I've been tinkering
with there were no waxing inside - but a
rather thick film of plastic that I peeled as well...
:p
 
Ummm....

...and how do you think epoxy will
soak into the tube thru that stuff ??

BTW, on the 8" one I've been tinkering
with there were no waxing inside - but a
rather thick film of plastic that I peeled as well...
:p

the yellow has no wax on it. Its just a yellow wrapping since yellow is part of quickrete's "color". Its still cardboards just a yellow color. There is a film of wax on the inside. If you peel of a little bit and but some fiberglassing epoxy on the inside (I did this for strength on a coupler) you can see 3-4" of the wax I missed. Its shiny like glassine on LOC tubes.

Ben
 
I'll take a good look at the tubes before I 'glass them. Thanks all for the reminder/suggestion. I do plan to 'glass the inside of the main tubes at least a few inches because the inside diameter of them is larger than the outside of the tube I bought to use as a coupler. A layer or two of fiberglass so be just about right.

-- Roger
 
Continuing what must be the slowest build thread in history .....

Today I built a jig for my router to cut circles. It worked really well.


I used it (and a template printed using Payload Bay's Center Ring/Motor Mount Tool) to create centering rings for the HMT's motor count.


Next, I'll cut out the fins.

-- Roger
 
Haven't seen a hole cutting jig for a router quite like that one, but I'm sure it works great. You like making your own jigs and fixtures, you might want to check out the book Router Magic. It's got a lot of great stuff in it.
 
Roger- Any chance HMT will be ready for Bunnell Blast?

Bunnell Blast 2008? Sure, no problem. :)

Unfortunately, we're going to be out of town for this year's Blast.

I'm not sure when HMT is going to be ready to fly. I'm trying not rush the build and still have a lot to do. But I was pleased with the progress I made yesterday. I have everything ready to start assembling the fin can. I cut out the centering rings and motor mount rings. I also cut the fins from Lexan. I'm going to glue and screw wood strips to each side of the fin tabs. These will be glued and screwed to the motor mount rings. When the fin can is slid inside the body tube, the wood strips on the fin tabs will be glued to the inside of the tube also.

I'm seriously considering doing my Level 2 certification in December at the NEFAR launch. I upgraded my "Mustang Sally" by repainting it and adding dual-deployment. It should fly well on one of Jim Harris's long-burning J motors. It sims to 3300 feet with dual-deployment and the video camera. I'm excited about getting the video camera to a higher altitude.

The Big Daddy Akavish should also fly well on the same motor now that we've "upgraded" it to a 54mm motor. It goes about 350' on an I154, so it should go about 1000' on the J motor.

-- Roger
 
Latest update:

I cut out the fins and attached strips of wood to each one.

2007-11-03-031.jpg

Then I glued the fin assemblies to the motor mount to form the fin can.

2007-11-03-075.jpg

More at: https://www.payloadbay.com/article-heavy-medal-thunder-build.html

-- Roger
 
Arrgh! Frustration .... :argh:

This weekend, I went to cut a 6" or 9" length from the left-over piece of concrete tubing only to discover that it has a larger diameter. The tube I bought wasn't straight. One end had a slightly larger diameter than the other. It worked okay for the top section of tubing I previously cut, but won't work for a the electronics bay section.

So, I'm going to cut a section from the bottom tube to use as the e-bay. I would have rather made the rocket longer (and avoided having to be as careful with the cutting). But I guess it's okay.

So ... be careful to check the diameter at both ends if you're purchasing concrete tubes to use for rockets!

-- Roger
 
There is no December launch - that's the business meeting... Give's you another month!

And, I'm going to miss the ROCK launch in December. Two months with no launches? How am I to survive?! :cry:

-- Roger
 
December SRA in Melbourne?

Or just keep on building.
 
Or just keep on building.

That's my plan ...

Today, while others fought the crowds and stood in long lines at stores to buy gifts, I fought the crowds and stood in a long line at Lowes to buy wood to build a fiberglassing stand. I followed the basic design of the one at described on the web page titled Airframe Tube Fiberglassing Rotisserie Stand. But I don't have a rotisserie motor so mine's manual.

2007-11-23+028.jpg

The stand supports a wooden rod. I'll use a couple of pieces of foam to hold the tube to the rod.​

See also:​
-- Roger
 
Back
Top