Anyone going to see the Orion Test Flight?

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Gorgeous view... hair's breadth from apogee...

OL JR :)

Apogee 1 minute ago at 9:11 am CST, 3604 statute miles...

8.2 g calculated on reentry-- double that of Soyuz. 1.3 n. mi from predicted impact point...
 
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Just over 3 minutes to SM simulator sep... Orion will fly on alone under its own attitude control prior to reentry... Delta upper stage will perform a third burn to put it on a separate disposal trajectory into the atmosphere...

OL JR :)
3315 statute miles altitude... 1:20 seconds to sep...

Module sep confirmed at 9;29 am cst...

Altitude 3200 s.mi... 59 minutes to splashdown...
 
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about 22 minutes out... altitude around 1300 s. mi...

disposal burn of upper stage successful... still predicting a 1.3 mi separation from the pre-calculated impact point... 8.2 g at 400,000 feet during reentry, over 4,000 degrees expected on the heat shield...

OL JR :)

Raise burn successfully completed...
 
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Is the 8g a part of the "test" or are they planning to eventually subject real astronauts to 8g's of acceleration?
 
Is the 8g a part of the "test" or are they planning to eventually subject real astronauts to 8g's of acceleration?

part of the test... steeper reentry to make up for lower altitude and lower speed at reentry, while still maximizing temperature on the heatshield to 80% of the lunar return heat load...

Later! OL JR :)
 
less than 3.5 minutes from entry interface... about fourteen minutes to splashdown... 3 minutes to entry interface...

camera view out the window on Orion...

Later! OL JR :)

1 minute to entry interface... 11 minutes to splashdown...

900 miles to splashdown target... 470,000 feet...

LOS... blackout begun... Orion looked perfect going into blackout...
 
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peak heating occurring now... four minutes until chute sequence...

OL JR :)

View back from Orion... right down the middle... Ikhana view from IR camera...

Orion at 125,000 feet...
 
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60,000 feet, 5 miles to splashdown...

subsonic...

OL JR :)

35,000 feet... awaiting cover bay jett... view of Orion from Ikhana...
25,000 feet... four minutes to splash... cover bay jett... drogue deployed... vd from ikhana...

15,000 feet...

main chute deploy... mains reefed... looking good...
 
under mains... good view out the window and from Ikhana...

OL JR :)

4000 feet... 3 good main chutes...
 
4 hours 20 minutes or so into flight... 3200 feet to splashdown...
2200 feet...

good view from Ikhana... winds at 12 knots at the surface... wave height 4 feet...

good view out the window of the chutes...

1000 feet...

splashdown!!!

OL JR :)
 
Bullseye splashdown... 10:29 am cst splashdown-- 270 miles west of Baja, 600 miles from San Diego...

OL JR :)

Picture perfect flight says PAO... recovery efforts beginning... video from Ikhana drone of Zodiac fast boats to recover...
 
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Video of recovery efforts...

THERE ARE APES ON BOARD!!! THREE HUGE TALKING APES!!!

No, wait, just kidding...

LOL:)

OL JR :)
 
Great to see Orion fly at last. I had a tiny bit of involvement in the program a few years ago in 2009 and 2010. I work for the LM Technical Displays and Models group in Fort Worth and Space Systems came to us for an Orion cockpit demonstrator for use at the LM demo center in Crystal City, VA. I designed it and built some of it myself and subcontracted out some of it. I very fun project. It was designed to allow visitors to get a feel of what it was like to fly Orion to a docking with the ISS (Yes, that was still being strongly considered a few years ago...;)..) It had working MFDs, working controls and fake console switch panels. Flat screen displays in each of the four windows for a nice looking outside view.

I was not involved in the sim production, just in the spacecraft shell, instrument consoles, flights controls, switch panels, seating and the interior spacecraft details.

It was great fun to sit in the Orion demonstrator after it was complete and fly the sim....:)

A picture would be worth a thousand words, so I will scare up a few.

My group did a few other things for the Orion program over the years, as well.
 
What exactly is this test flight supposed to prove?
That 1960’s technology still works?

Then we ask the $64,000,000,000 question. What is this going to be used for?
Hauling people up to the space station?
What’s the purpose of the space station?
To have some place for this thing to go?

If for one second I truly believed that NASA et all, actually had a realistic plan to return to the Moon and from there to Mars I might get excited by this but let’s face it folks; the next people to set foot on the Moon will most likely be speaking Chinese and that’s assuming they don’t loose interest or go broke first.
 
What exactly is this test flight supposed to prove?
That 1960’s technology still works?

Then we ask the $64,000,000,000 question. What is this going to be used for?
Hauling people up to the space station?
What’s the purpose of the space station?
To have some place for this thing to go?

If for one second I truly believed that NASA et all, actually had a realistic plan to return to the Moon and from there to Mars I might get excited by this but let’s face it folks; the next people to set foot on the Moon will most likely be speaking Chinese and that’s assuming they don’t loose interest or go broke first.

This was a test flight of the capsule's basic systems and a heat shield test. This is giong to be NASA's next generation deep space spacecraft. If current plans hold true, we will employ this craft for travel back to the moon, and hopefully to an asteroid and later Mars. Next flight's not for 3 years, IIRC, and will also be unmanned but on the brand new SLS Heavy-Lift rocket which will give it the deep space capability.

This will not be used for hauling astronauts to the space station. Thanks to the great funding NASA gets, this program is one of it's main focuses. They will continue relying upon Russian Soyuz rockets to get folks to ISS until commercial companies like Boeing and SpaceX have their own man-rated capsules ready to fly, hopefully starting in 2017 (IIRC). By going commercial, we can start sending up our Astronauts from US soil again, allowing NASA to focus it's budget on Orion and SLS. I'm sure Luke Strawalker will give a longer, better explanation :)wink::D), but in a nutshell, I think this is fairly accurate. What say you, OL JR?

I am NO economist, nor do I really have an interest in any of it, but didn't China just surpass the US for having the best economy? Doubt they'll go broke first...and yeah, they might beat us back. I'll be excited for it though. Any spaceflight is good spaceflight in my book, so long as the intentions are for good!
 
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Next flight's not for 3 years, IIRC, and will also be unmanned but on the brand new SLS Heavy-Lift rocket which will give it the deep space capability.

Yeah I heard that the mission with the SLS in three years is supposed to push the capsule into an orbit around the moon. Not entirely positive, but if that's the case we could probably get people back on the Moon by the 2020's
 
I can’t imagine sending people to Mars in what amounts to an up-scaled Apollo capsule; unless it is used as the command section of a MUCH LARGER space craft.

If it is going to take months to reach Mars orbit and months to return, then we are going to have to arrive at some means to create “artificial gravity” which at this point in time means spinning some or all of the spacecraft or a constant boost propulsion system. Of course if we had the latter it wouldn’t take months to reach Mars.
It won’t do us any good if the astronauts arrive at Mars half dead due to the affects of zero –G.

All this time and money spent for the ISS and we still don’t have a solution to this problem even the hours each day spent in exercise only helps so much and there is hardly room aboard the “Orion” to get those kinds of workouts.
 
They plan to have an additional module with crew quarters for deep space flight and an upper stage propulsion system that hasn't even been fully determined yet.

I never heard anything about long-term negative effects of zero G being that severe. The long stays on the ISS and other space stations over many years is clear evidence of that...nobody comes back from ISS half dead from any zero-g effects. Also never heard anything about them needing or planning to produce artificial gravity either.

Yeah I heard that the mission with the SLS in three years is supposed to push the capsule into an orbit around the moon. Not entirely positive, but if that's the case we could probably get people back on the Moon by the 2020's

That's my general understanding as well.
 
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What exactly is this test flight supposed to prove?
That 1960’s technology still works?

Then we ask the $64,000,000,000 question. What is this going to be used for?
Hauling people up to the space station?
What’s the purpose of the space station?
To have some place for this thing to go?

If for one second I truly believed that NASA et all, actually had a realistic plan to return to the Moon and from there to Mars I might get excited by this but let’s face it folks; the next people to set foot on the Moon will most likely be speaking Chinese and that’s assuming they don’t loose interest or go broke first.

Well, in all fairness, this is an all-new capsule... with all new structures, systems, and in a lot of cases, materials and methods. The space program flew the same sort of unmanned test flights with all their new spacecraft, from Mercury, to Gemini, and then Apollo, prior to flying the things manned. The only exception to that was the first flight of the space shuttle, and that was because the thing was purposely designed to not be capable of autonomous, unmanned operation. Incidentally, the first flight of the shuttle was actually very lucky to come back intact and not kill the first crew. It's also good to see that they're making the effort to verify their spacecraft design in an unmanned test prior to committing lives to the operation of the thing... It's not a matter of "proving 60's technology still works". Orion has the largest heat shield ever constructed using the materials and design used... it shouldn't be assumed that everything is "okay" simply because its similar to the Apollo design.

What's it going to be used for?? That IS a good question, and one without a very satisfactory answer... One thing it WON'T be used for is carrying personnel to ISS... that ship has sailed, and it's considered "too expensive" to be used for ISS crew ferry, plus it wouldn't be ready (or have a sufficiently powerful booster) until ISS is ready for retirement anyway... ISS is, IMHO, mainly about giving NASA 'something to do'... the old saying "peeing in jars, looking at stars" comes to mind... that's basically what ISS is about...

I tend to agree with your assertions about "no realistic plan". I see that as one of the biggest problems with this whole operation. There isn't even another mission planned for Orion for another three years, and that one unmanned as well (EM-1)... then FOUR YEARS after that, the first manned Orion mission is scheduled... EM-2. NOTHING past that is planned, budgeted for, etc.

We're building a beyond Earth orbit capsule, but no upper stage capable of propelling it and a payload beyond Earth orbit. We're building the world's largest heavy lift rocket, but no payloads for it beyond the Orion capsule. Orion isn't designed to perform missions alone... it can do about as well as Apollo, perhaps two-weeks or maybe a tad more by itself, but it has NO amenities to make life aboard for the crew pleasant (the weight scrubs of Orion caused the galley and toilet to be stripped out-- so any crew performing a mission in Orion alone will be crapping in bags and eating out of toothpaste tubes, just like Apollo). Any "livability" or amenities are to be designed into the "mission module", whatever habitation module intended to accompany Orion on the mission. Problem is, there ARE no mission modules... NASA has been doing some mock-up work, but NOTHING is approved or budgeted... and NOTHING is being built. NO missions have been approved for Orion...

This is the most troubling aspect of the entire operation... Orion and SLS are going to be THE most expensive systems NASA has ever developed... and yet NOBODY seems to be able to offer a clearly stated reason for their existence, NO vital mission that Orion/SLS is essential for, nothing...

That's why I don't see this thing surviving long-term... maybe another political cycle, or two... but sooner or later, SOMETHING is gonna happen, some new bubble bursting, some big downturn, some new war, or the election of a new Administration or Congress that will either have bigger issues to deal with or who won't support it or be outright opposed to it, and that'll be that... Coupling the enormous cost of this thing with the low flight rates of one flight every 2-3 years or so, and I don't think it's going to garner enough public or political support to sustain it and prevent it from ending up being cancelled...

PLUS, NASA simply CANNOT afford to do any sort of exploration missions while still funding ISS operations. This has been noted both inside and outside NASA from MANY sources... so as long as ISS exists, Orion and SLS won't have the funding necessary to do any real missions of any consequence... maybe some sort of "stunts" (like lassoing an asteroid and dragging it back to cislunar space, or something like that) but that's about it...

Later! OL JR :)
 
Yeah I heard that the mission with the SLS in three years is supposed to push the capsule into an orbit around the moon. Not entirely positive, but if that's the case we could probably get people back on the Moon by the 2020's

Sorry, no... people might ORBIT the Moon, Orion would be capable of it with the Cryogenic Propulsion Stage (if it ever gets built), maybe even with the Interim Cryogen Propulsion Stage (ICPS, which is basically a modified Delta Cryogenic Upper Stage (DCUS) like the one used yesterday for the test flight). BUT, the Altair lunar lander development was cancelled YEARS ago, to free up money for the development of the troubled Ares I and the Ares V. Kinda hard to land on the Moon without a Moon lander!

NASA has been ordered to "give up" on going back to the lunar surface... "been there, done that" according to our 'glorious leader' in a speech he gave at KSC a few years ago... that's the reason NASA has been scrambling for ideas for missions to perform with the Orion... Mars is at LEAST 20 years away, and without lunar missions in the interim... that's why they've been floating wonky ideas like going to asteroids (which would require about a six-month round trip minimum, which would require a mission module, which again, NOTHING has been approved, budgeted, or designed, let alone built, nor even planned for (other than a few plywood mockups at JSC). Hence even wonkier ideas like sending out an unmanned spacecraft to "lasso" a refrigerator-size asteroid and then drag it back to cislunar space, where a manned Orion could be sent out to "explore" it... which begs the question-- if you're going to build a billion dollar unmanned spacecraft to "lasso" an asteroid, why not simply equip it with the systems necessary to take the core samples and conduct the 'exploration' itself, rather than spending several BILLION more on an SLS to send a manned Orion out to basically run a power drill and hammer and pack a suitcase of samples to return to Earth?? (It's all nuts!) About the only other thing NASA can come up with is a "gateway station" out at a Lagrange point (EML-1 or most likely EML-2) which could serve as a departure point for future missions, and also provide communications relay to the lunar farside, if lunar surface missions ever did happen (or provide full-time communications by acting as sort of a lunar farside "TDRSS" satellite to relay communications from spacecraft over the lunar farside back to Earth...) being at a Lagrange point, it could also serve for more capable lunar surface missions, since it allows for ANY orbital inclination and "anytime return" via the EML-2 or EML-1 point... (something which the Orion/Altair lunar mission had a requirement for but could not meet, since it launched directly from Earth to Low Lunar Orbit, thus limiting the orbital planes available and requiring the correct orbital phasing to lift off the Moon and leave LLO for a return to Earth...)

I think going back to the Moon is a great idea... I think we'll need the practical experience to test out hardware for Mars, and get the experience necessary in long-term surface ops. BUT, the first thing you have to do is get the necessary lunar lander approved.

Later! OL JR :)
 
I can’t imagine sending people to Mars in what amounts to an up-scaled Apollo capsule; unless it is used as the command section of a MUCH LARGER space craft.

If it is going to take months to reach Mars orbit and months to return, then we are going to have to arrive at some means to create “artificial gravity” which at this point in time means spinning some or all of the spacecraft or a constant boost propulsion system. Of course if we had the latter it wouldn’t take months to reach Mars.
It won’t do us any good if the astronauts arrive at Mars half dead due to the affects of zero –G.

All this time and money spent for the ISS and we still don’t have a solution to this problem even the hours each day spent in exercise only helps so much and there is hardly room aboard the “Orion” to get those kinds of workouts.

Orion isn't going ANYWHERE by itself... it's a can to get to space and get back at the end of the mission-- maybe go to cislunar space or something for a week or two, but that's about it.

Problem is, NO mission modules have been approved or funded... and it'll probably take around ten years from the time they ARE approved and funded until flight hardware is actually ready to go on a mission...

Later! OL JR :)
 
In my personal opinion, we need to perfect our transportation of materials into LEO. Once we accomplish that I believe more Windows will open up. Maybe once we do tht we can start building an orbiting assembly station or something. In order to develop the size craft we need to make a "comfortable" journey to mars we need to assemble it in space because it would be too large, heavy, and complex to transport in one launch. I personally think it was a bad idea for NASA to cancel the Space Shuttle program. They could have at least cancelled it with a new design for a "space freighter" in the books.

To defend the Orion though, all the things on the Orion and the SLS are an improvement from the last capsule we made. When you think about it, we aren't really that far away from the origins of space travel. Since the Apollo missions all we've had that was manned was the space shuttle. The SLS is also smaller and more powerful than the Saturn V and the Orion is designed for more people and is made to take more stress. Not to mention, there's really not much of a need for improvement. They took the general idea of the Apollo's, and modernized it. How much more could they do (without building something a lot bigger)?
 
They plan to have an additional module with crew quarters for deep space flight and an upper stage propulsion system that hasn't even been fully determined yet.

I never heard anything about long-term negative effects of zero G being that severe. The long stays on the ISS and other space stations over many years is clear evidence of that...nobody comes back from ISS half dead from any zero-g effects. Also never heard anything about them needing or planning to produce artificial gravity either.



That's my general understanding as well.

That's supposedly the main purpose for the existence of ISS... to solve the "human health effects of zero gravity for long-duration space missions". The fact is, we've learned that bone loss is a severe issue that hasn't been, and may not be, fully solved. We can minimize it with a vigorous resistance exercise regimen, supplemented with medications, if necessary. BUT, for a mission of up to two years in duration, that probably won't be enough. Additionally, we're discovering other problems, like vision problems caused by excessive fluid pressure in the head pressing on the optic nerve and some issues like that (space medicine isn't my forte). In addition, we have ZERO experience with partial-g operations in the last 40 years, for more than a couple days or so (the maximum time any Apollo mission spent on the lunar surface in 1/6 g.) We have ZERO experience in long-term partial g operations and health effects... in either lunar gravity at 1/6 g, or Mars gravity at 1/3 g. Nor do we have any experience with artificial gravity and the problems or usefulness of that to overcome zero-g health effects...

Of course we're not really GOING to know, either, because NASA has NO plans to do any of that sort of research... no artificial gravity experiments on ISS, and no plans for long missions to the lunar surface... just a lot of vague talk about going to Mars in 20 years or so...

Later! OL JR :)
 
In my personal opinion, we need to perfect our transportation of materials into LEO. Once we accomplish that I believe more Windows will open up. Maybe once we do tht we can start building an orbiting assembly station or something. In order to develop the size craft we need to make a "comfortable" journey to mars we need to assemble it in space because it would be too large, heavy, and complex to transport in one launch. I personally think it was a bad idea for NASA to cancel the Space Shuttle program. They could have at least cancelled it with a new design for a "space freighter" in the books.

To defend the Orion though, all the things on the Orion and the SLS are an improvement from the last capsule we made. When you think about it, we aren't really that far away from the origins of space travel. Since the Apollo missions all we've had that was manned was the space shuttle. The SLS is also smaller and more powerful than the Saturn V and the Orion is designed for more people and is made to take more stress. Not to mention, there's really not much of a need for improvement. They took the general idea of the Apollo's, and modernized it. How much more could they do (without building something a lot bigger)?

That's exactly what SpaceX is trying to do... perfect transport to LEO, for manned and unmanned cargo (up to 53 tonnes on Falcon Heavy when it flies). If they can perfect the reuse of the first stages of their rocket, they'll be a LONG way to making a successful space material transport infrastructure.

Shuttle was, IMHO, a big mistake. Shuttle's time has come and gone... truth be known, shuttle was understood that it would NEVER be what it was intended and the costs were astronomical and wouldn't get cheaper all the way back after Challenger in 1986... and SHOULD have been retired and replaced THEN... That's why were back almost exactly where we were in 1972 when the shuttle was approved. Shuttle was SO expensive, that we could have actually continued building and flying Saturn V's CHEAPER than the per-flight costs for shuttle! Shuttle was a fine IDEA, but the EXECUTION was awful... Shuttle suffered too many compromises in its design and was justified on COMPLETELY unrealistic numbers and expectations, that ENSURED from day one that it would never operate as intended... No, if you wanted an affordable space transport capability for materials and parts, then the shuttle wasn't it... Shuttles costs were simply TOO HIGH, and it was too brittle and complex of a system to ever be affordable enough or have the kinds of flight rates necessary to make it the kind of vehicle that it was intended to be...

It was said by former shuttle manager John Shannon in the Augustine Committee meetings discussing the future of the Constellation Program that "reusability is a myth"... at least the shuttle version of it... It would actually have been cheaper to let the SRB's sink after every mission rather than recover and refurbish them. Similarly, the SSME's cost SO much to refurbish and overhaul after every mission, that it would have been better to simply build them to be disposable after every flight and NOT recover them or reuse them. (The Soviets knew and understood this full well, which is why they were convinced that the Shuttle was actually being built for secret military purposes-- they knew full well that it wouldn't provide the kind of cost savings for which it was supposedly being built... and to counter this threat, they felt it *essential* to develop the same capability on their own, which is why they built their "Buran" shuttle, but didn't bother developing the reusable liquid hydrogen engines, and opted for liquid rocket boosters (Zenits), which would have eventually parachuted back down to the Kazakhstan steppes for reuse... and by placing the non-reusable LH2 engines under the core vehicle, they got a lighter, better gliding shuttle orbiter as well as a stand-alone heavy lift vehicle that could be used for other purposes, like orbiting their side-mounted payloads like the Polyus space battle station (which didn't actually achieve orbit).

SpaceX has the BEST idea yet for achieving reusability, in the way NASA *should* have done it 40 years ago... step by step-- reusable first stages, then reusable upper stages, and a reusable crew module. Instead, NASA has tried one failed SSTO project after another for the last 40 years, and failed utterly.

Of course, it does remain to be seen if SpaceX WILL be successful, or not... and even if they are, if the actual savings they have projected will actually be there...

Time will tell... so far we just know what HASN'T worked...

Later! OL JR :)
 
I wish one thing more than anything. That the government would open up some of the regulations surrounding space travel. Why exactly do we need permission from the government to go into space? Yes they fund 90% of it but that doesn't mean that the politicians should be making decisions on what's best for the future of space travel. Even though we are out of the cold war the space industry still seems just like one big political agenda. if NASA (which still states to be a civilian organization) wants to go back to the moon then they should go back to the moon, and if spacex want to go to mars they should go to mars. (I've heard that NASA's grant money is not to be used on anything but the development of their Dragon v2 and the falcon heavy, limiting spacex to the ISS.) *end political rant*

I know what we could do! We could all move to Switzerland and start our own space agency there! ;)
 
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I wish one thing more than anything. That the government would open up some of the regulations surrounding space travel. Why exactly do we need permission from the government to go into space? Yes they fund 90% of it but that doesn't mean that the politicians should be making decisions on what's best for the future of space travel. Even though we are out of the cold war the space industry still seems just like one big political agenda. if NASA (which still states to be a civilian organization) wants to go back to the moon then they should go back to the moon, and if spacex want to go to mars they should go to mars. (I've heard that NASA's grant money is not to be used on anything but the development of their Dragon v2 and the falcon heavy, limiting spacex to the ISS.) *end political rant*

I know what we could do! We could all move to Switzerland and start our own space agency there! ;)

You've heard of the "Golden Rule" haven't you??

"He who has the gold makes the rules!"...

Congress has power over the "gold"... who gets it and for what, and who DOESN'T... Because of that, it's GUARANTEED to be a "political monkeyshow"...

Fix THAT and you'll be well on your way....

Later! OL JR :)

PS... "No bucks, NO BUCK ROGERS!" still rules the day!
 
That's supposedly the main purpose for the existence of ISS... to solve the "human health effects of zero gravity for long-duration space missions". The fact is, we've learned that bone loss is a severe issue that hasn't been, and may not be, fully solved. We can minimize it with a vigorous resistance exercise regimen, supplemented with medications, if necessary. BUT, for a mission of up to two years in duration, that probably won't be enough. Additionally, we're discovering other problems, like vision problems caused by excessive fluid pressure in the head pressing on the optic nerve and some issues like that (space medicine isn't my forte). In addition, we have ZERO experience with partial-g operations in the last 40 years, for more than a couple days or so (the maximum time any Apollo mission spent on the lunar surface in 1/6 g.) We have ZERO experience in long-term partial g operations and health effects... in either lunar gravity at 1/6 g, or Mars gravity at 1/3 g. Nor do we have any experience with artificial gravity and the problems or usefulness of that to overcome zero-g health effects...

Of course we're not really GOING to know, either, because NASA has NO plans to do any of that sort of research... no artificial gravity experiments on ISS, and no plans for long missions to the lunar surface... just a lot of vague talk about going to Mars in 20 years or so...

Later! OL JR :)

No experience with long term viability in low gravity situations. I have been harping on this topic for years and you appear to be the only one who gets it.

There have been astronauts arriving back to Earth whose immune system has been seriously compromised showing many of the same symptoms as people with AIDS. They do get better, sort of, so NASA et all don’t like to talk about it. Women especially suffer from the bone mass loss problem as well as fluid displacement affects that are damn bothersome.

We also have, to my knowledge, no means by which we could protect astronauts traveling in deep space for extended durations from the affects of cosmic rays and or a solar flare/coronal mass ejection.

The only method I’ve read about is some kind of “Storm shelter” the crew could hide-out in for the duration of the event.

Personally I don’t think manned deep space missions will be practical until we can develop a means for the crew to rid themselves of solid waste that doesn’t entail a 37 step process and an instruction manual longer than the L.A. County phone book.
 
On another topic, at the missile museum at the Canaveral air force base, the gift shop was selling Dr. Zooch EFT-1 kits:) The display model was very nicely done.

Frank
 
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