Your thoughts and opinions on UPS strike

[Banzai88]

Join the military. Do 20 years. Free health insurance. 20 years of experience gets you a real good job as a contractor.

Yeah, 30 years ago that was true for those of us who joined then and stuck it out. 26 year Navy veteran, retired in 2015, now working on base in Virginia. After retirement, I have worked as a .mil direct contractor, as a mid level executive at a defense contractor, and currently working as a GS at a naval command.

That post WWII point of view is, by and large, long since over, at least for Navy vets.
That dream really died after the betrayal that we experienced as part of the VA/.gov Healthcare denials of Gulf War 2.

We STILL were average 15% underpaid compared to equivalent civilian education/ experience. That hasn't gotten any better, either.

Seriously, no one beats a path to our door because of any of the "excellent training and proven dependability" from having served honorably....after GW2, vets are a dime a dozen and simply "next" in the hiring line.....and in the last 20 years the .mil has gone from training technicians to fast tracking operator/maintainers. HUGH knowledge and skills gap there making many unsuitable or unattractive to .mil contractors.

As of the 2018 retirement overhaul, you get barely more than didly squat. It's one step closer to not much more than a conventional 401(k) and trending more and more that way with every change (about every 2nd year since the overhaul).

And let's not forget that congress changes the rules constantly. Last year, due to said changes, my "free" 100% healthcare costs went up 450% (NOT a typo), and 2 of my 3 maintenance meds (that the .mil put me on 5 years before I retired) are no longer covered....so I have to pay full price or have supplement coverage.

And COLAs are long time between and run way, way, way less than inflation and the cost increases that are forced by congress changing the deal ex post facto.

Don't even get me started on the VA hospital care. The one in Hampton, VA (in the largest fleet concentration area of any country on the planet) routinely ranks as last or next to last in the entire system for "favorable outcomes and quality of care"......for the last 30 years! 3rd world hell hole, been there, never going near those incompetent butchers again.

Maybe the VA does good, somewhere, but not at any facility within 250 miles of me.

 

[NateB]

Maybe the VA does good, somewhere, but not at any facility within 250 miles of me.

When I worked on a 911 ambulance, I had the habit of calling the VA before we left to make sure they were able to treat the symptoms my patient called us for. While there are specific conditions the VA is best suites to treat, I never understood why our Veterans can't just go to the hospital/physician of their choice and the bill gets paid. It is the least we can do.

 

[cls]

Don't live in "Kalifornia" then.

Are you being rude? That is uncalled for.

 

[jderimig]

When I worked on a 911 ambulance, I had the habit of calling the VA before we left to make sure they were able to treat the symptoms my patient called us for. While there are specific conditions the VA is best suites to treat, I never understood why our Veterans can't just go to the hospital/physician of their choice and the bill gets paid. It is the least we can do.

Because most Veteran's would not go to most VA facilities if they have the choice and someone's empire will get destroyed. Can't have that.

 

[John Kemker]

Are you being rude? That is uncalled for.

What's rude about it? If it costs that much to live somewhere and it's unaffordable, then live somewhere else. Are you objecting to how he spelled "Kalifornia?"

Back in the BBS days, I was on a lot of FIDOnet BBSes. The author of the FIDOnet protocol and BBS software, Tom Jennings, supposedly stated one of the basic rules of FIDOnet: "Do not be overly annoying and do not be too easily annoyed." It's a good maxim to put into everyday practice.

 

[cls]

Are you objecting to how he spelled "Kalifornia?"

Yes. It is a dog whistle, like Brandon. We don't need that here. Let's keep it family friendly.

BTW, Fidonet was a little bit of fun, late, but long before then we had r.m.r on Usenet... With similar slogans about thick skin... And those were old by then...

 

[teepot]

Yeah, 30 years ago that was true for those of us who joined then and stuck it out. 26 year Navy veteran, retired in 2015, now working on base in Virginia. After retirement, I have worked as a .mil direct contractor, as a mid level executive at a defense contractor, and currently working as a GS at a naval command.

That post WWII point of view is, by and large, long since over, at least for Navy vets.
That dream really died after the betrayal that we experienced as part of the VA/.gov Healthcare denials of Gulf War 2.

We STILL were average 15% underpaid compared to equivalent civilian education/ experience. That hasn't gotten any better, either.

Seriously, no one beats a path to our door because of any of the "excellent training and proven dependability" from having served honorably....after GW2, vets are a dime a dozen and simply "next" in the hiring line.....and in the last 20 years the .mil has gone from training technicians to fast tracking operator/maintainers. HUGH knowledge and skills gap there making many unsuitable or unattractive to .mil contractors.

As of the 2018 retirement overhaul, you get barely more than didly squat. It's one step closer to not much more than a conventional 401(k) and trending more and more that way with every change (about every 2nd year since the overhaul).

And let's not forget that congress changes the rules constantly. Last year, due to said changes, my "free" 100% healthcare costs went up 450% (NOT a typo), and 2 of my 3 maintenance meds (that the .mil put me on 5 years before I retired) are no longer covered....so I have to pay full price or have supplement coverage.

And COLAs are long time between and run way, way, way less than inflation and the cost increases that are forced by congress changing the deal ex post facto.

Don't even get me started on the VA hospital care. The one in Hampton, VA (in the largest fleet concentration area of any country on the planet) routinely ranks as last or next to last in the entire system for "favorable outcomes and quality of care"......for the last 30 years! 3rd world hell hole, been there, never going near those incompetent butchers again.

Maybe the VA does good, somewhere, but not at any facility within 250 miles of me.

That's not been our experience. My wife retired in 1999. The day after she retired she went back to the same desk and did the same thing only now a contractor. Then The Test Site. The VA clinic here is very good according to my wife. She has never had a problem with the VA Hospital in Vegas. We know some other retired military and I have never heard a complaint. We also have community care. If the VA can't do it they send you to someone local. Today she had an appointment at the VA Hospital. Was seen on time and the doctor spent 45 minutes with her. One daughter and her husband are retired AF. Youngest daughter works at The AF Academy as a GS something. She did 6 years and they offered her a GS job. Been there 25 years I think. The oldest is in Spokane. Haven't heard them complain either. I know the VA has problems and the military we knew has changed.

 

[John Kemker]

Yes. It is a dog whistle, like Brandon. We don't need that here. Let's keep it family friendly.

BTW, Fidonet was a little bit of fun, late, but long before then we had r.m.r on Usenet... With similar slogans about thick skin... And those were old by then...

"Lighten up, Francis."

 

[Banzai88]

That's not been our experience. My wife retired in 1999. The day after she retired she went back to the same desk and did the same thing only now a contractor. Then The Test Site. The VA clinic here is very good according to my wife. She has never had a problem with the VA Hospital in Vegas. We know some other retired military and I have never heard a complaint. We also have community care. If the VA can't do it they send you to someone local. Today she had an appointment at the VA Hospital. Was seen on time and the doctor spent 45 minutes with her. One daughter and her husband are retired AF. Youngest daughter works at The AF Academy as a GS something. She did 6 years and they offered her a GS job. Been there 25 years I think. The oldest is in Spokane. Haven't heard them complain either. I know the VA has problems and the military we knew has changed.

Good that you’ve had a different experience, and genuinely glad to hear a good and simple outcome. I’ll say that in the grand scheme of things, yours is somewhat of an outlier compared to what many of us Sailors go through.

No doubt that Walter Reed/Bethesda Naval do GREAT work for amputees and some other categories, but that’s uber specific and does not apply for the vast majority of vets. If you have a good VA, that’s a treasure, and one that NONE of my circle of friends has experienced, from the Philippines to all over the US. In any case, there’s NO denying the repeated congressional reports from BOTH sides of the isle about how bad the system is, in general, and it NEVER gets better.

My last active duty tour was SPAWAR, collateral duty Command Career Counselor. In 48 months I did the paperwork for 45 retirements E6-O5. Less than half had satisfactory post retirement employment options in the first 24 months, regardless of uniformed rank or position!

As to GS vs. Contractor vs. Defense Contractor, three totally different things. You probably know the difference, but most have no clue (no fault of their own).

GS is a .gov employee. Those jobs trade pay for stability. Then there are direct contractors, they’re on contract to the .gov, usually the individual command; that’s mid level pay for semi-stability. The last and most lucrative is the defense contractors, which is CRAZY pay but almost no stability as (outside of upper executive level) much of the employment is based on contracts, and quite often trades increased pay for the individual taking care of their own healthcare and retirement options. These days, they prefer to snap folks out of college and home grow their own vice .mil retirees other than O6 and above (which helps with the politics of getting contracts).

I’ve worked all 3 positions since January 2015. Currently a GS with NATEC, traded pay for stability in a dream job. Someone actually passed on to their ultimate reward for this position to open.



These days, the .mil is little more than a pathway to stability and a college education when the individual would otherwise not be able to afford it, NOT prosperity or longevity. Successive recent changes to the retirement program have brought it continuously closer to nothing more than unreliable healthcare and a 401(K), and well eroded the promises made when we signed the contract.

 

[Five]

Here’s what UPS employees were fighting for

 

[Five]

Now I will be able to spend a little more than my usual $500 at October fest.

 

[Cape Byron]

Here’s what UPS employees were fighting for

My 17yo stepdaughter gets more than that working part-time in a shop that sells China made clothing.

 

[Five]

My 17yo stepdaughter gets more than that working part-time in a shop that sells China made clothing.

Are they hiring???

 

[Cape Byron]

Are they hiring???

Are you cute and trendy? They appear to be the necessary qualifications.

 

[Five]

Are you cute and trendy? They appear to be the necessary qualifications.

Darn it!!!

 

[jderimig]

My 17yo stepdaughter gets more than that working part-time in a shop that sells China made clothing.

Is that USD or AUD?

 

[Bravo52]

Yeah, 30 years ago that was true for those of us who joined then and stuck it out. 26 year Navy veteran, retired in 2015, now working on base in Virginia. After retirement, I have worked as a .mil direct contractor, as a mid level executive at a defense contractor, and currently working as a GS at a naval command.
....

Very good/excellent summary Tom. It's not like it used to be. I used to counsel Enlisted troops on the breaking point for making the decision to commision if they've been in a long time approaching 20 yos. That number kept changing every year as the variables in retirement, pay and promotion opportunity changed. Seems the civilian leaders couldn't leave well enough alone with each passing NDAA. By and large, it did get better for most things even if it was at a much slower rate.

I now mentor (counsel) only 3 young service members and the crazy thing is each is under a different retirement system... They are approached daily by .mil contractors and it's getting harder and harder to convince them their service isn't just about the money...fortunately for them, they love being part of Space Force and the Air Force.

 

[Five]

EBT

 

[Cape Byron]

Is that USD or AUD?

$25 AUD so $16.63 USD. My bad.

 

[NateB]

$25 AUD so $16.63 USD. My bad.

That's more than our EMTs make, and hospital administration wonders why turnover is so high.

 

[boatgeek]

That's more than our EMTs make, and hospital administration wonders why turnover is so high.

That is insane. I’m pretty sure that’s less than Seattle minimum wage.

 

[OverTheTop]

My daughter (23yo) just applied for a job managing a Pandora jewlery store. $65AUD/hr. She is currently running a bakery.

 

[Cape Byron]

My daughter (23yo) just applied for a job managing a Pandora jewlery store. $65AUD/hr. She is currently running a bakery.

Ten years ago I was the local postmaster for $22 AUD an hour. Just sayin’.

 

[Banzai88]

My son just moved from Chick-fil-A at $11/hr working outside to Food Lion for $18/hr in the AC. Oh, and they're offering 40-60 hours a week + 10% bonus if he stays longer that 90 days! And that's in a $40K median income area!

They're hiring on the spot basically anyone that shows up.

At this point I'm convinced that anyone without a job doesn't want one and is unemployable.

 

[Donnager]

At this point I'm convinced that anyone without a job doesn't want one and is unemployable.

My experience as well. If you know any welders, fitters, or sheet metal guys on the US Gulf Coast that aren't just interested in working for 7.5 hours and look for a slip and fall injury in the afternoon so they can call their Morgan&Morgan rep, I'll interview them.

 

[Five]

My daughter (23yo) just applied for a job managing a Pandora jewlery store. $65AUD/hr. She is currently running a bakery.

Everything day we hit with a shipment of pandora. We only about 45 minutes once the package car gets to ups to load in the air cans that go to the airport. Everything is rush, rush, rush.

 

[John Kemker]

Everything day we hit with a shipment of pandora. We only about 45 minutes once the package car gets to ups to load in the air cans that go to the airport. Everything is rush, rush, rush.

Sorry, that paragraph made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

[Five]

Sorry, that paragraph made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

His daughter applied for a manager position at pandora making $65/hr. This thread is about UPS and its pay and why they would have went on strike. Im pretty sure that the paragraph relates to his comment and the topic.

 

[John Kemker]

His daughter applied for a manager position at pandora making $65/hr. This thread is about UPS and its pay and why they would have went on strike. Im pretty sure that the paragraph relates to his comment and the topic.

It's *your* paragraph that makes no sense. It's like the rules of grammar just took a vacation. Care to explain what you were trying to say? For example, what does "Everything day we hit with a shipment of pandora." mean? Or "We only about 45 minutes once the package car gets to ups to load in the air cans that go to the airport." The last sentence is the only one that parses intelligibly. "Everything is rush, rush, rush." I'm able to follow the thread. It's making sense of nonsense that eludes me.

 

[rharshberger]

It's *your* paragraph that makes no sense. It's like the rules of grammar just took a vacation. Care to explain what you were trying to say? For example, what does "Everything day we hit with a shipment of pandora." mean? Or "We only about 45 minutes once the package car gets to ups to load in the air cans that go to the airport." The last sentence is the only one that parses intelligibly. "Everything is rush, rush, rush." I'm able to follow the thread. It's making sense of nonsense that eludes me.

Package Car...aka UPS delivery vehicle.
Air Can...transport container for aircraft they are shaped to fit the interior of an aircraft, we had "A" cans that were full width of airframe, "B" cans that were 1/2 A cans, and "D" cans that were shaped to fir under the main load deck of an airplane (cargo hold on a passenger aircraft, where the luggage normally goes).

The delivery driver has 45 minutes to unload, weigh, and cube (measure) each package and get it loaded into a "air can" so it can again be weighed, and the loadmaster can start loading the aircraft.

I think the first sentence really needs a bit of cleanup, it looks like auto-defect got the better of it.