Sneak Peak: Jolly Logic's Easy Dual Deployment

[John Beans]

I'm very interested in this setup. How is the drogue/pilot attached to the main?

Nate

I wouldn't advise it. You're tugging on the chute that Chute Release is trying to hold!
Instead, I'd mount the drogue independently to the nose cone.

Hi John. Looks like the smallest size would be about 15" tall. They don't provide a lot of drag, so larger sizes tend to be necessary. A 15" sized one performs at about 50fps with a 1lb rocket. We're testing larger sizes to see what's necessary, but the biggest thing about these is how tightly they pack.

I'd really love to do "before and after" drogue experiments. My lightweight 3" Leviathan tumbles at 32 fps without drogue. My North Coast Archer is slightly heavier (similar size, but has draggy strakes on the side) at a very similar rate. These are both rockets where you wouldn't worry about a drogue I suppose, unless the chute was having trouble getting out.

I have a much heavier fiberglass 4" Madcow with added strakes (shown pre-decoration below), and it should weigh 10+ pounds after I finished decorating and loading it. I'd love to do a tumble rate test with a drogue like yours. We got rained out this weekend, thus the reason it still sits undecorated. If anyone knows of a more visible paint color, please let me know. I paint them all like this now.

 

[nute]

I wouldn't advise it. You're tugging on the chute that Chute Release is trying to hold!
Instead, I'd mount the drogue independently to the nose cone.



I'd really love to do "before and after" drogue experiments. My lightweight 3" Leviathan tumbles at 32 fps without drogue. My North Coast Archer is slightly heavier (similar size, but has draggy strakes on the side) at a very similar rate. These are both rockets where you wouldn't worry about a drogue I suppose, unless the chute was having trouble getting out.

I have a much heavier fiberglass 4" Madcow with added strakes (shown pre-decoration below), and it should weigh 10+ pounds after I finished decorating and loading it. I'd love to do a tumble rate test with a drogue like yours. We got rained out this weekend, thus the reason it still sits undecorated. If anyone knows of a more visible paint color, please let me know. I paint them all like this now.

Oh yeah, of course, I wouldn't use this setup with the chute release, but there are a couple other applications where it appeals to me without the chute release. Sorry about the confusion.

 

[Pat_B]

I'd really love to do "before and after" drogue experiments.

John- I sent you an email about this.

I'll be trying to get out tomorrow with my DX3 to do some testing with some larger truncated chutes to see how well they work out. I'll try to get some good video.

 

[kweaver]

Very Interested! I take at least two now!
Ken

 

[SCrocketfan]

I wouldn't advise it. You're tugging on the chute that Chute Release is trying to hold!
Instead, I'd mount the drogue independently to the nose cone.



I'd really love to do "before and after" drogue experiments. My lightweight 3" Leviathan tumbles at 32 fps without drogue. My North Coast Archer is slightly heavier (similar size, but has draggy strakes on the side) at a very similar rate. These are both rockets where you wouldn't worry about a drogue I suppose, unless the chute was having trouble getting out.

I have a much heavier fiberglass 4" Madcow with added strakes (shown pre-decoration below), and it should weigh 10+ pounds after I finished decorating and loading it. I'd love to do a tumble rate test with a drogue like yours. We got rained out this weekend, thus the reason it still sits undecorated. If anyone knows of a more visible paint color, please let me know. I paint them all like this now.

Cool design with the added strakes! I like Rustoleum 2X paint and they have a nice orange, but the orange you have might be brighter.

It's not a direct comparison (two different Crayons, slightly different weights but very similar overall), but looking at my A3 data from the various flights I found that the Crayons fell at ~40-50 ft/s without drogue, and ~40 ft/s with a 12" nosecone mounted drogue. The descent rate was more consistent with the drogue though. I think on a heavier rocket the drogue may even increase descent velocity, if the booster/payload fall vertically instead of horizontally, but I don't have any data on this yet.

That said, I really like flying with a drogue just so the descent is a bit more stable. I noticed two flights (both Estes Partizons, which are fairly long and separate at the nose) at the last launch I attended, that sort of glided horizontally before the main release, and having a drogue may help with that.

 

[ksaves2]

I'm very interested in this setup. How is the drogue/pilot attached to the main?

Nate

Easy,

Pat from Dino parachutes sewed the loop at the apex of the Dino chute. As I mentioned, this worked fine with the Archetype/Prairie Twister pyrotechnic cable cutter but I wasn't able to witness the deployment on my only flight with it so far due to the small size of the rocket and the distance the flight entailed. A ziptie can really hold the package together quite tightly. I cut that grey, high density
packing foam "jammer" from some packing I received in some sort of shipment or another. Been saving stuff like that for awhile so's
now I gets some use out of it.:wink:

I'm not so certain, like John mentions that the rubber restraint would hold as well.
But.............. If one felt the need to test the package with the Chute Release I believe it could be done with minimal risk. Just simply use a motor combination that would say give a lower apogee where one could tolerate an early main deployment if that were to occur. Follow the descent visually till the main release. If one observes that the rubber restraint is adequate for their application, it could be usable if sending a project to "sight unseen" land.
I think the drogue at chute apex could be helpful at colder temps where the nomex might be a bit stiffer and help get the main out of the chute protector.
If flying at warmer temps, the drogue on the harness/nosecone is totally workable and I've use it myself.
I've had a few "Hail Mary" descents where the nosecone came out and the chute hung in the tube only to work out in a nick of time before disaster.
A pilot/drogue on the nosecone can assist with getting the chute package out of the tube if the charge is not enough.
Part of the reason for the drogue at the chute apex was some folks observed that their chute hung in their chute protector when using the pyrotechnic
cutter. A lot of folks will release the main at a lot higher altitude than what I see folks doing with the JLCR. That technically gives a chute more time to
work itself out of the bag. That might be needed as the remnants of a ziptie, though broken, might remain about the bag and act as some restraint.
The rubber restraint of the JLCR may not have as much holding power as a ziptie but it will pop free and away from the chute package more readily in
my estimation and is leading to the high already seen success rates.

I had one flight where I had a 36" pilot on a deployment bag for a large main chute and between the pilot and the drogue that was down below on the sustainer, there wasn't enough change in velocity to get the main out of a tightly packed bag! Caught it on video as the main was blown at 900' and saw the harness/chutebag with the 36" pilot deployed but the main stayed in the bag.
Soft dirt saved the rocket that flies to this day. When I previously flew with a 48" pilot I actually thought was too large, the same main chute (I think was 96") worked just fine. This scenario really doesn't apply for the JLCR because it was for such a large configuration and though some adventurous folks are
going to be experimenting with larger projects, I hope they consider some sort of tracking device for insurance on those flights! Kurt

 

[Pat_B]

Tested a 24" conical parachute with a 3lb rocket. It worked, but the chute can probably be larger in this weight range. Going to do more testing tomorrow.

Got video, but it's difficult to see. This was a quick test flight and I didn't have a lot of time to prep, so I had the CR rubber band too tight and the main didn't deploy. Only had about a spare hour today. Totally my fault, and I wasn't too concerned because I was at a soft field.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/2b231gkhnkawaxv/My Movie.mp4?dl=0

 

[Rob702Martinez]

Got a chance to use it for the 3rd time out on many rockets each time out.... Absolutely worth every $. If you don't have one for whatever reason, put it on the top of your list!

Thanks Jolly Logic

 

[crossfire]

Got my chute release today. Been playing around with it. Wrapped the chute with a protector and did a few tests. Its very easy to use. One thing my fingers are a little big for the switches but it might just take a little getting used to using it. Looks to be a great product.

 

[TheAviator]

Got to witness several Chute Release enabled flights today, everything from an E9 to an F50. It worked perfectly on every flight, though the plastic Estes chutes apparently can't quite take the stress of opening over a tumbling Maxi Alpha. One guy flew his first flight with electronics with the JL CR. Another person had a Strattologger for apogee deploy with the Chute Release for a full dual-deployment setup. Awesome product, John, and for all the doubters, totally worth what it costs. Now to save up for one of my own!

 

[seth_cooper]

I used my Jolly Logic Chute Release 10 times today. F, G and H motors. Chute release was flawless. Only 2 mishaps were user error: One I packed a chute too tight and it didn't come out of the air frame, chute release released. The other had a weak ejection charge and the rocket didn't separate, chute release released. The other 8 flights were right on the money. I set the altitude to 300 feet and the parachutes opened quickly. I may try 200 feet in the future.

Two out of 6 flyers at the launch had the Chute Release. Everyone was talking about it.

Considering switching most of my altimeter based rockets to drogue less with the Chute Release on the main.

 

[ksaves2]

I used my Jolly Logic Chute Release 10 times today. F, G and H motors. Chute release was flawless. Only 2 mishaps were user error: One I packed a chute too tight and it didn't come out of the air frame, chute release released. The other had a weak ejection charge and the rocket didn't separate, chute release released. The other 8 flights were right on the money. I set the altitude to 300 feet and the parachutes opened quickly. I may try 200 feet in the future.

Two out of 6 flyers at the launch had the Chute Release. Everyone was talking about it.

Considering switching most of my altimeter based rockets to drogue less with the Chute Release on the main.

I wouldn't necessarily be so quick to ditch your deployment altimeters/devices and ematches. For one thing, yes the chute release is nice and I like mine but you have to remember an altimeter deployment is the best chance you'll avoid an apogee zipper.
One can just eyeball a motor, stuff it in and no worrying about the delay needed for a stress free apogee deployment. Yeah you can run sim after sim after sim to get an idea and hopefully drill the delay grain correctly but if the rocket flies off your
expected trajectory a bit, the deployment electronics can handle it.

Now it's true with the Chute Release, since the chute remains reefed in the rubber bound protector, it's less likely to cause a zipper and one will have more leeway with the deployment. Still, I wouldn't trust a high speed deployment of the
package with a cardboard rocket. Could still result in a zipper. Fiberglass rocket would be stronger still. I look to my Chute Release to provide utility with single deploy rockets I've flown MAD apogee deployment units that have spent too much
time out of sight to get me nervous. Eventually are found but now I can slap the JLCR on the harness and get those puppies to fall faster so they don't drift as far. I'm really looking forward to that.

Also a RW Formula 54 is going to be a nice tracking tester with quick turnaround: https://rocketrywarehouse.com/produ...d=405&osCsid=43dc19d0286141e3baafa24d777ea1dd
Can stuff an EggFinder GPS tracker in the N/C very easily and kick her 3 to maybe 4.5k outta sight with H's. JLCR will take care of main release with simple "pseudo" DD. Am looking forward to completing that project and flying it.
Kurt

 

[Evilash]

Well I found mine, it was outside for a few weeks in the elements so I'll be the test bed for that! I found it as soon as I have up looking, as it always is.

 

[Evilash]

Three weeks in the Arizona heat and some rain. Still has all bars of battery and seems to work fine. Pretty cool

 

[ksaves2]

Three weeks in the Arizona heat and some rain. Still has all bars of battery and seems to work fine. Pretty cool View attachment 284952

Ummmmm, Story behind that? It flew off the harness on a flight and you just found it or did a delivery guy just toss it in the bushes and you just found it?:shock: Kurt :wink:

 

[Evilash]

Ha, no I sent a vulcanite up with an I 55 last month with it and despite hours looking that day, aerial search via airplane from friends, I thought it was gone. I looked again today and only found the rocket after 3 batteries of quadcopter search failed and I was heading in and boom, there it was.

 

[boatgeek]

Ha, no I sent a vulcanite up with an I 55 last month with it and despite hours looking that day, aerial search via airplane from friends, I thought it was gone. I looked again today and only found the rocket after 3 batteries of quadcopter search failed and I was heading in and boom, there it was.

It's always the last place you look!

 

[Barkley]

It's always the last place you look!

I love that saying. As if you'd keep looking after you found it... :wink:

 

[AZRxocet]

Ha, no I sent a vulcanite up with an I 55 last month with it and despite hours looking that day, aerial search via airplane from friends, I thought it was gone. I looked again today and only found the rocket after 3 batteries of quadcopter search failed and I was heading in and boom, there it was.

I'm curious what the altimeter and GPS data recorded...did you have a camera on it too?

 

[Evilash]

The altimeter had no data from the flight.. I don't know why

 

[ksaves2]

The altimeter had no data from the flight.. I don't know why

What hardware did you use for an Altimeter? I had a rocket that had an apogee failure with a Featherweight Parrot altimeter. I missed one leg of the ematch! I only got the sliced nosecone back and the main parachute with the broken shockcord.
Main charge blew, shockcord broke, nosecone was sliced by a fin and I got that back right away. Landowner found the remains a month later and told us. Brought them back to a launch about 15 months later. The Parrot actually survived but the
Beeline GPS didn't. I replaced the battery that powers the electronics and by golly the ballistic parabolic flight was duly recorded and downloaded to the laptop. Oh, the apogee charge though something like 16 months old, I buried it and blew it.
Sure enough, it popped so if I would have plugged the leg of the ematch in correctly the flight might have been saved. I had the cataracts fixed a short time later!! Kurt

 

[kevinkal]

My new chute release came in the mail today along with an altimeter 3. I've been practicing packing my 30" and 24" estes nylon chutes with it. I think the small rubber band is a bit too tight with my 30" chute, but the release works fine. I think I'll go with the larger band for that chute.
I do seem to be having some difficulty keeping the chute release from tangling the shroud lines after it releases. I've been putting the included tether around a single parachute shroud line. I'm thinking that I may just attach the tether to my parachute's swivel. This might put a bit of tension on the tether line due to the drag force of the falling reefed parachute. I don't think the drag force would be strong enough to pull the chute out from the chute release's grip.. but I'm not sure. I hope that makes sense. With that, I have some questions for those using this device:
How do you attach your chute release tether? Have you had issues with tangles? Thanks.

 

[CzTeacherMan]

My new chute release came in the mail today along with an altimeter 3. I've been practicing packing my 30" and 24" estes nylon chutes with it. I think the small rubber band is a bit too tight with my 30" chute, but the release works fine. I think I'll go with the larger band for that chute.
I do seem to be having some difficulty keeping the chute protector from tangling the shroud lines after it releases. I've been putting the included tether around a single parachute shroud line. I'm thinking that I may just attach the tether to my parachute's swivel. This might put a bit of tension on the tether line due to the drag force of the falling reefed parachute. I don't think the drag force would be strong enough to pull the chute out from the chute release's grip.. but I'm not sure. I hope that makes sense. With that, I have some questions for those using this device:
How do you attach your chute release tether? Have you had issues with tangles? Thanks.

I attach to the swivel every time. Zero issues.

 

[RalPh8]

Plus one. I also attach to base. I've had shroud lines rip off before at ejection and when the chute opens so I'll likely never attach it there. Never had any issues with tangles. Also I would recommend that you find a way to make the small rubber band work on the 30in chute. You want it to pop open when it hits altitude. The bigger bands are really meant for greater than 36in parachutes. I fold my parachutes differently when using the chute release than when I don't use it. Best of luck

 

[kevinkal]

I attach to the swivel every time. Zero issues.

Plus one. I also attach to base. I've had shroud lines rip off before at ejection and when the chute opens so I'll likely never attach it there. Never had any issues with tangles. Also I would recommend that you find a way to make the small rubber band work on the 30in chute. You want it to pop open when it hits altitude. The bigger bands are really meant for greater than 36in parachutes. I fold my parachutes differently when using the chute release than when I don't use it. Best of luck

Thanks. It's nice to have confidence in the swivel attachment point given your replies.
I'm folding my 30" somewhat compactly, perhaps that makes it thick enough for me to think about going to the larger band. I'll definitely consider this.. and do aggressive shake tests.

 

[kjkcolorado]

My new chute release came in the mail today along with an altimeter 3. I've been practicing packing my 30" and 24" estes nylon chutes with it. I think the small rubber band is a bit too tight with my 30" chute, but the release works fine. I think I'll go with the larger band for that chute.
I do seem to be having some difficulty keeping the chute protector from tangling the shroud lines after it releases. I've been putting the included tether around a single parachute shroud line. I'm thinking that I may just attach the tether to my parachute's swivel. This might put a bit of tension on the tether line due to the drag force of the falling reefed parachute. I don't think the drag force would be strong enough to pull the chute out from the chute release's grip.. but I'm not sure. I hope that makes sense. With that, I have some questions for those using this device:
How do you attach your chute release tether? Have you had issues with tangles? Thanks.

I have only flown my Jolly Logic CR only once, but here's my 2 cents on your comment of the chute protector getting tangled in the shroud lines after it releases. It sounds like you may be including the chute protector in the bundle being held by the CR. Am I correct in that assumption? If so, I would recommend attaching your protector several feet from your parachute attachment point, and not including it in the bundle held by the CR. After ejection, the recovery 'train' will spread out and your protector should be separated from the chute so as not to fowl anything when the CR releases.

 

[kevinkal]

I have only flown my Jolly Logic CR only once, but here's my 2 cents on your comment of the chute protector getting tangled in the shroud lines after it releases. It sounds like you may be including the chute protector in the bundle being held by the CR. Am I correct in that assumption? If so, I would recommend attaching your protector several feet from your parachute attachment point, and not including it in the bundle held by the CR. After ejection, the recovery 'train' will spread out and your protector should be separated from the chute so as not to fowl anything when the CR releases.

Thanks for the reply. I did not include my Nomex protector in the chute release bundle. I assumed that I would be able to wrap the Chute Protector "package" within the Nomex cloth, and I also assumed that upon motor ejection that the Chute Protector "package" would easily slide free. I have the Nomex cloth tied to my elastic shock cord about 18" beyond the tube so that it will eject fully out, but not slide up the line and foul the parachute. The chute is attached to a swivel right off the nosecone.

 

[kjkcolorado]

Oh, I think you may have mis-typed on your previous post... "I do seem to be having some difficulty keeping the chute protector from tangling the shroud lines after it releases." Did you mean chute release, not protector?

 

[kevinkal]

Oh, I think you may have mis-typed on your previous post... "I do seem to be having some difficulty keeping the chute protector from tangling the shroud lines after it releases." Did you mean chute release, not protector?

You're correct. Sorry about the misleading typo. I've corrected the original misleading post.
Last night, I made a very careful chute pack, rolling the shroud lines snugly into the chute, attached the chute release with the larger rubber band, and then connected the chute release's tether to the bottom eye in my swivel(same eye that the parachute shroud lines are attached to.) This seemed to work very nicely and cleanly. The release seemed to jump and fall away from the folded/rolled chute and I don't think it would tangle the lines. Even if the chute release somehow got tangled in the lines, it would only be able to tangle a short segment of the shroud lines at the swivel. I think this is the best setup for me. I may test it out at Moffett today if I can get the kids up. =]

 

[CzTeacherMan]

Just used JLCR again today. Worked great! Cut a long walk down to a nice short walk. Thanks, John!