I Miss The Deep Space Fantasy Rockets...

[BrnAgainRoc]

yeah but most of those rockets were actual some of the first kits ever designed which at that time rocketry wasnt really even recognized i suppose. Ive heard of clubs being around at that time but they wasnt sending rockets 30,000 feet into the air. So at that time style and looks were a huge factor in sellings kits. More kids were about fantasy things such as starwars stuff and what not. High performance wasnt a issue at all. But i did go to hobby lobby today and they have some of those kits available that look like those. If iam not mistaken didnt estes rockets create a USS Enterprise rocket? I wonder how that thing flew,lol.But if you do see kits like that around id buy them cause i time i dont think fantasy rockets wont be around much longer since a large oart of the community are wanting faster,higher, and slicker extreme performance and looks.

 

[rokitflite]

Originally posted by Badboy1982
yeah but most of those rockets were actual some of the first kits ever designed which at that time rocketry wasnt really even recognized i suppose. Ive heard of clubs being around at that time but they wasnt sending rockets 30,000 feet into the air. So at that time style and looks were a huge factor in sellings kits. More kids were about fantasy things such as starwars stuff and what not. High performance wasnt a issue at all. But i did go to hobby lobby today and they have some of those kits available that look like those. If iam not mistaken didnt estes rockets create a USS Enterprise rocket? I wonder how that thing flew,lol.But if you do see kits like that around id buy them cause i time i dont think fantasy rockets wont be around much longer since a large oart of the community are wanting faster,higher, and slicker extreme performance and looks.

Model rocketry had been around for 20 years or more before these designs started showing up in the late 70s and early eighties far from the first kits ever designed (with the exception of the Trident that I forgot to mention before). Believe me, not everybody is interested in models that go 30,000 feet. The newer Estes designs reflect the desire for easier assembly rather than high performance. The best selling kits are simply the cheapest kits and that is what Quest and Estes must focus on to stay afloat. I am sure that many of the folks on this forum would not agree that there is no interest in these kits.

Oh, the Estes Enterprise flies like what it actually is... A big, lopsided, vaccuum formed plastic fin unit on the end of a long skinny rocket

 

[Fred]

I think the answer is balance. The fantasy rockets and scale rockets cater to a certain group amongst which I count myself. The idea of a high performance rocket is great but most folks are urbanites nowadays and large landing fields required for high performance rockets are not there. In some cities rocket launches are forbidden on public property except in designated areas with special permission. In the meantime most of the scale rockets I like to build can land in the smaller fields quite nicely. If one really likes to bore holes in the stratosphere you will make the trip to a larger area but lots can't or won't. To involve the next generation of urbanites to rocketry means you need rockets that fit their environment. If thats scale or fantasy cool or low priced RTF. Later they may decide the trip is worth it and the high performance can kick in. Kust my two cents worth.
Cheers
fred

 

[Saks_Russel]

Fred22,

You're absolutely right about balance. We urbanites have a hard time finding a site that will accomodate more than a D motor. I get jealous of all the pictures of wide open farm fields of some here. The smaller fantasy models don't go very high or roar off the pad on large composite motors, but they sure are fun to build and fly. The best thing is that you can actually see the model through the whole flight and not just the first 1/2 second.

The club where I am has a decent spot to launch (when the Ren Faire crowd hasn't taken over the park) for up to a G motor that is not too far away. Once a month or so there is a launch at a dry lake where one can shoot for the moon. Well, 10,000-15,000ft anyway. The dry lake launch means getting up at some impossible cow milking hour to get there before the winds pick up in the afternoon.

I am assembling parts for a scratch built saucer that should be a very fun model to fly. Something like my long lost Centuri from Jr. high school days. I'll document the build since it will be interesting. It should be a perfect model for small field launching.

 

[BrnAgainRoc]

well i appologize for under estimating rocketry history. I just remember what the shelves at local stores carried at the time. which was the bull pup, another rocket they came down like a helicopter and a few others. And at that time i think the enterprise rocket was out also. But i do remember i was the only kid in the area flying them period. So i assumed rocketry hadnt been a big thing at that point of time. I asked my dad about rockets being around in the 50's and 60's and he said they existed but no one was ever really into them and if a kid did own them it was for room deocrations to hang from the ceilings. But then again this comes from a man that had a love for blowing stuff up as a kid and setting army men on fire with hand made napalms. I just figured if there is a demand for this type of rocket then why hasnt the demand been met? Which iam sure older rocket modelers colect them as antiques or what not. But i think to serve as urban rockets they created all these really low flying rockets such as the astrocam and those $1 rockets that fly on really small a's. Iam not doubting ya word one bit. Id like to own a few of the kits myself if i could ever run across any. But after looking through the estes 2005 cataloge i doubt you will see much more of those type of kits. All i see is short/tall pointy rockets. That excludes those i mentioned in a previous post.

 

[Fred]

Hi badboy,
I have to say the dancing banana cracks me up. Reminds me of a pal of mine a long time ago. The new estes lineup features lots of xprize(scale sort of) stuff which only hits 450 or so on a d. Suits me fine. I am going to buld the arrow after the I finish my saturn. Its all good and each to their own. I like my bullpup and nemesis but can only fire them on windless days.
Cheers
fred

 

[Micromeister]

Originally posted by Badboy1982
well i appologize for under estimating rocketry history. I just remember what the shelves at local stores carried at the time. which was the bull pup, another rocket they came down like a helicopter and a few others. And at that time i think the enterprise rocket was out also. But i do remember i was the only kid in the area flying them period. So i assumed rocketry hadnt been a big thing at that point of time. I asked my dad about rockets being around in the 50's and 60's and he said they existed but no one was ever really into them and if a kid did own them it was for room deocrations to hang from the ceilings. But then again this comes from a man that had a love for blowing stuff up as a kid and setting army men on fire with hand made napalms. I just figured if there is a demand for this type of rocket then why hasnt the demand been met? Which iam sure older rocket modelers colect them as antiques or what not. But i think to serve as urban rockets they created all these really low flying rockets such as the astrocam and those $1 rockets that fly on really small a's. Iam not doubting ya word one bit. Id like to own a few of the kits myself if i could ever run across any. But after looking through the estes 2005 cataloge i doubt you will see much more of those type of kits. All i see is short/tall pointy rockets. That excludes those i mentioned in a previous post.

OMG badboy!
You and your dad couldn't be further off the mark! Model rocket history starts WAY back in the early to mid 50's with the very first model rocket Mass manufactured kit being a SCALE sounding rocket model. Once G Harry Stine and the NAR got our motors and fireworks seperated, the safety code accepted by the NFPA and FAA regs changed all by the early 60's the hobby took off like gang busters. Unfortunately you weren't around during the Gold Age of Model Rockets and the "HEY DAYS" during the decade of the 1960's while we and the USSR were locked in the race to the MOON. Those Great model design years contiuned into the late 70's then tapered off as Estes and Centuri engineering merged. You Really want to see some GREAT model Rocket designs? Look at the 1970's Centuri cataloges! the Laser-X springs to mind. During those great model rocket days Model rocket clubs and kids everywhere were building and flying all sorts of very Cool, SCALE, Fantasy and Futuristic models that challanged the imagination looking to the future exploration of space and space flight.
Hi performance models.... Sheesh! the 2000' mark was broken in the early 60's. An early estes model "the astron Sprint" is an example of a very nice 18mm hi performance production manufactured kit aimed mainly at the very active competition flyers of the late 60 thur mid 80's I can't rememver exactly when this model was introduced but I believe it was in the early 70's. We were putting competition altitiude and scale altitiude models over 2000 feet on a regular basis. Clustering the "NEW"small 13, 18 & 24mm Mighty D motors helped break the mile mark in 1973 -74?? again very early in model rocket history. All that said; altitude is only a very very small part of rocketry. As Fred22 mentioned as urban sprawl eats up more and more farm and pasture lands it's becoming harder and harder (at least here on the east coast) to find fields that will support 3000 ft flights let alone anything over 10k.
It's always been the "fantasy" models like the ESS Raven, Starship VEGA and the like that inspire kids of all ages to look to the havens in wonder and hope for new explorations. So sorry you missed all that, please don't confuse striving for max. performance with striving to spark the imagination. Keep in mind Model rockety is by difination "Modeling in minature real or futuristic space flight vehicles" High performance is a secondary mostly step-sister side show.
As for what your seeing on the store shelves.... your looking at what is cheapest and easies to build, simply not a good gauge of trends. I'm hoping with the renewed public interest in space generated by both the X-prizes and our own manned spaceflight program and the introduction of so many new and very interesting Scale (semi-scale) models will bring back some of the interest in our youth... It's hard to fight sitting on our keester playing some dumb mindless video game rather then actually learning to use your hands and head in a hobby that actually takes them OUTSIDE.

IMHO; look to the future of space flight type models to continue and increase in kit form in our hobby, not 3F&NC how high can it go easy builds. Largish, clunky, B-to-E motor class size Fantasy-Futuristic models that you can actually see in flight make for a much more rewarding hobby experience then POP and it's gone...go build another one, models. Again IMHO you'll get lots more "Bang for the Buck" fire and smoke from a cluster of D12's than a one time G or H. May not go as High but so what...After spending hours building and finishing a labor of love, You'd think you'd like to fly it more than once and Get it back in resonable shape.
I'd also suggest doing a little digging into the 40+ year history of our hobby. I think you'll find this Hobby has a huge number of fasets to suit just about everyone... but remember what model rocketry really is all about... MODELING.

 

[jflis]

Originally posted by Badboy1982
But after looking through the estes 2005 cataloge i doubt you will see much more of those type of kits. All i see is short/tall pointy rockets. That excludes those i mentioned in a previous post.

Well, *that's* Estes, and they aren't the whole enchalada in rocketry. They have selected a business model that is different than they had in the past. There is a demand for Deep Space Fantasy models, but Estes doesn't put a lot of effort in addressing it because it doesn't fit their current business model. It would be like asking Ford to make Bikes. They're both vehicles, but one doesn't fit their business model. Not to say that there isn't a market for bikes, mind you

That being said, there is a *large* contingent of modelers who are into the "model" rocket realm and don't get into the higher power stuff (for whatever reason, cost, space, fields, interests). Myself, while I love to watch them, I was never all that interested in flying them, hence I start a *model* rocket company.

As for "High Performance", my $8 Flea can go out of sight on a C motor if built well. A $200 HPR bird with a mega-massive motor can also go out of sight. I discovered that when they are out of sight they both look the same...

As for the popularity of model rocketry in the past, it was biggest in the late 60's and through the 70's and has been in decline ever since. A lot of effort has been put forth in the past 5 years to reverse that and I see good signs that it is working.

Now, as for SciFi Fantasy models, **way** kewl. I love 'em and I know of many others who do. THere is a strong market for them and, with respect to FlisKits, they are some of our best selling kits. Also, frankly, if I spend the money on a complicated fantasy model, and put the time into building it well, when I launch it, I want to be able to read the freekin' decals at apogee... LOL

fwiw,
jim

 

[mike_bar]

What I like about TRF is the vast knowledge, history and experiences of model and high powered rocketry. Certainly we come to the sport from our own point of view and tastes.

Estes is a big corporation with a rigid business plan. A company of Estes’ size has to be focused to be able to sell product in Wal-Mart, and actually make any money at it. (That is a whole different story.) There is plenty of room in the sport for many other companies, such as FlisKits. They fill a void left by Estes. Jim Flis does a great job of bringing back the fun designs that Estes can not afford to do. I am so happy he can make a business of this and I support him wherever I can.

The hobby crowd on TRF is a select group of consumers. We have bemoaned the ready-to-fly kits since we are all modelers and craftsmen. We may focus on high-power mach busters, micro mini models, fantasy, scale, odd-ball, 3-fin & nose cone, and much more.

So, Deep Space Fantasy Rockets?? I can't wait to build a Battlestar Galactica Colonial Viper!

PS- Jim, you can not see the Flea 'cause it's so darn small!!!

 

[Micromeister]

The Flee on a 18mm C motor, a Mosauito or Quark on a A10-3T, Many custum Micro models on MM-II motors with a .5 sec delay. Staged model with any size motors, and most clusters, have the potential for out of sight altitude. What altitude, as Jim so well pointed out is totally irrelevant...Out of sight is out of sight.
As an example my Scout Troop used to paint all their Mosquitos in camouflage colors becuase it didn't matter what color that were painted fluorescent Orange or Camo on anything more than 1/2a motors they weren't coming back. Same with some Micro minimum diameter models. On really good days they are completely gone for several seconds if you don't catch a glimse of the streamer or chute coming down their gone for good.

With the micro electronics now being produced we can put altimeters and staging timers in micro powerd model that will easily put them way out of sight...Now that's can become an expensive problem

 

[mike_bar]

Originally posted by Micromeister
(Snip.) With the micro electronics now being produced we can put altimeters and staging timers in micro powerd model that will easily put them way out of sight...Now that's can become an expensive problem

And with the micro electronics, you will be able to build a micro electronic tracking beacon to find all your models!

 

[Micromeister]

Originally posted by Mike_BAR
And with the micro electronics, you will be able to build a micro electronic tracking beacon to find all your models!

Tee He Mike! your absolutely right... I hadn't tought of that, I need to develop a 3v micor-mini Beacon similar to Doug Pratts. Maybe Doug could slap one together...Humm sounds like a phone call this evening

 

[rocketkid88]

wow... this thread has sorta jumped to the history of rocketry!
Estes has their own little 'nitch' that they fill now... but its not what we as 'modelers' like all the time. Its the build that grabbs me the most, and not so much performance, but other people like performance better...

right now i'm trying to finish up the classics that i have in order to fly them at TRF 05... lots of time sanding and wetsanding over the past 3 days, and their still not ready for their final paint... thats 1 problem with these kinds of rockets! lol. I also wanted to finish my USS G., but not sure if i'll be able 2 intime... i'm sure it won't be finished/decaled, but mabye built

this is my solar sailer, starLab, and Sky Raider as of yeasterday... all old estes kits

 

[rokitflite]

I love those kits! It looks like you are going all out on that Solar Sailer! I have had one in an unpainted state now for like 23 years! I just get so exasperated when it comes to sanding sealer! Come to think of it, I have a Starlab AND Andromeda in the same state! Sadly I don't think they will ever be finished (by me at least). I know you will like the looks of my space cruiser once I get the @#$*%$# decals for it so I can post a picture. It fits right in with these models. (except I will actually have finished it)

 

[jflis]

Lordy, Scott, yer as bad as I am with regard to getting rockets finished LOL

 

[Micromeister]

OML Scott:
I though your name was Scott not Tom Lyon 20 some year old models naked...you should be ashamed..(Hand out.. Palms up.. head bowed);
Forget the sanding sealer! Bring them to the house we'll grey primer them into submission! You'll still have to do some sanding but at least they'll get dressed

 

[rocketkid88]

i *hate* the finishing procces... but i won't fly a compleatly nekid rocket, so they at least get primer also i use watered down FnF.. never have used sanding sealer, so idn what its like

I love the Andromeda! wish i could get my hands on one of those

i have 2 other *old* estes kits that are still NIP, but their scale kits... won't have time to build them for TRF 05

oh, and i'm hyped about this 'cause it'll prly be my only big rocket launch this year,,, so i hafta make the best of it!

can't wait to see your bird.... hurry up, man! .... jp

 

[stl1951]

A full sized Andromeda has recently been released by one of the cloning companies.
MicroClassics has a MicroMaxx version available that you can see at EMRR

https://www.rocketreviews.com/reviews/kits/micro_andromeda.html

I also have a 13mm downscale clone but I have not found the right engine for it yet.

Stuart

 

[rokitflite]

Originally posted by jflis
Lordy, Scott, yer as bad as I am with regard to getting rockets finished LOL

My problem is that if I finish a rocket it HAS to be perfect. If I build a kit and it has hard to reach areas for smoothing and filling I just won't even bother. I have tried to make my kit one that will have no hard to reach places and basically only three easy to get to fins to fill. I just talked with my friend with the Alps printer and I am bringing him the decal file tonight so I can get rolling on the photo model.

What do you think of this guys? My model's instructions will take you through basic construction of the flyable airframe which is basically a skill level three kit and very sleek looking as it is. The photo model has panels, antennas, thrusters radar pods and the like. These parts (sheet styrene, rods, half round pieces and a detail tree) will be included in the kit, but other than lots of pictures of the photo model, will not have specific directions where to apply these parts. This will make each finished one truly unique and give the builder a chance to customize it as they see fit. I will explain how I attached the various pieces, but a lot will be left to the imagination of the builder. Sound good?

 

[rocketkid88]

I like the sound of that! sorta like the solar panels on the USS Grim... optional, but make the rocket look *that* much better!



oh, and another rocket i'm gona be doing along this line is a modded big dady... I'd like to see pictures of other peopls fantasy rockets if ny1s got any

btw, that MMX Andromeda is wiked!

 

[stl1951]

How do you like this design?

 

[rokitflite]

It looks like theres alot of neat stuff going on there in the fin area. Is that a Micro Maxx powered kit?

 

[stl1951]

I fast prototyped it at MicroMaxx scale and am now in the process of build a larger size (24mm) .

Stuart

 

[rokitflite]

Not that I have a right to say it, but keep the pictures comming!!!

 

[ccoffin]

Scott,

I'd love to pick up one of these kits when you are ready to ship. Hope there is room on your list .

 

[rokitflite]

Originally posted by ccoffin
Scott,

I'd love to pick up one of these kits when you are ready to ship. Hope there is room on your list .

Hi Chris,
No problem. It will be a beauty once it is FINALLY finished. I will start a new thread once the photo model is done and I can post pictures. The kit will be availale once every bug is worked out of it. This may be the first and last kit I ever produce so I want it to be a good one! Thanks for your interest!

 

[mike_bar]

Originally posted by ccoffin
I'd love to pick up one of these kits when you are ready to ship. Hope there is room on your list .

I agree!!! Scott, put me on the list

Originally posted by rokitflite
I will start a new thread once the photo model is done and I can post pictures. (Snip.)

Scott, I want to see more photos! Where will you post (Vendors or Yard Sale)? Thanks...

 

[rokitflite]

I'll post the photos here in Low Powered Rocketry (my favorite place). I hope I will be picking up some decals for it Tuesday! I just found out my order for 200 body tubes got delayed for another 3 weeks *sigh*. Things are still moving forwards rather than backwards though

 

[rokitflite]

For those of you who have not become entirely sick of waiting for this kit, here are some updates:

1. The first prototype decal sheet was completed but some things need to be changed to make the model look larger... Like a ship that would be carrying a crew of 200+.

2. I am working on a lighting option for the kit.

3. The rest of the tubes will supposedly be shipped on May 9th

4. One step required that a cardboard disc be glued to the end of a tube to block it off. I decided to mold the part, with a shoulder, out of resin to make it a more simple, clean and easy step.

Thats all for now.

 

[rokitflite]

I don't know why I thought that a model with 50+ parts would be easy to kit!!! Well, I hope to post pictures within the next couple of weeks. Decals became such a pain in the backside that I bought my own Alps printer to do them on (I hope it lasts at least a little while!). I received the body tube order last week and have been cutting BT-5s and 20s to length for the past few evenings (boy are my arms tired!!!) I will have a bunch of photos to take for the instructions and finish the packaging then it will be DONE!