# GUNS & ROCKETS

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#### MikeyDSlagle

##### Well-Known Member
So I that particular situation then yes a light is helpful. But he proved it could be done without a light.

That is a good example of "What am I missing?" Thanks.

Even still it is a small sample of the gun world and just the opinion of two gun guys who are in that small sample. But yes, they do make a living, at least to some extent, with long guns.

My AR has no sights whatsoever. One attachment? I absolutely need some way to aim, which makes the rest of the video invalid. Just some guy telling me I need something that I know I don't need. Shooting in broad daylight, a light adds unnecessary weight. If I shot in that particular competition, then his words may hold some weight. In my real world applications, I don't need a weapon light, especially on my black rifle. Optic and foregrip are all the extras I "need".

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#### grouch

##### Well-Known Member
More to the point, why wouldn't you want to have a light?

#### o1d_dude

##### 'I battle gravity'
TRF Supporter
On a slightly different note, has anyone tried the Crimson Trace Laser Saddle yet?

I have the cutest little Mossberg 500...

#### n3tjm

##### Papa Elf
Today I went to my friends farm to do some shooting. I brought everything I owned and shot them at least one cylinder, tube, or mag full. I haven't gone shooting in a long time so its nice to see I can still hit the paper . Another thing I like to do is if I want to shoot a hand gun that I normally carry for self defense, or shoot by bedside handgun, I usually shot the magazine it already has in it. It's nice to see these guns function without malfunction even though they have not fired in a long time. Its also a good idea to shoot your self defense rounds once in a while. They can and do have a different point of impact than the cheaper target loads do. Also my shot gun is giving me issues, and I expect the spring in the tube magazine has become weak. Its not pushing the rounds out of the tube magazine when I pump it.

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#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
I got a new WOA barrel but having trouble getting the hand guard off. Guess I’ll have to buy a new one after messing up the old one.

#### OverTheTop

##### Well-Known Member
Regarding lights on rifles, where do people prefer them mounted? Around the middle of the rifle or out near the muzzle? What is better for balance and use? Thoughts?

#### tpw2000

##### Member
Regarding lights on rifles, where do people prefer them mounted? Around the middle of the rifle or out near the muzzle? What is better for balance and use? Thoughts?
I prefer as far out as your rail goes- my grip naturally moves that far to minimize muzzle climb, so having my light back would be obscured by my arm- not to mention how much shadow your gun would cast

#### rfjustin

##### Well-Known Member
I prefer as far out as your rail goes- my grip naturally moves that far to minimize muzzle climb, so having my light back would be obscured by my arm- not to mention how much shadow your gun would cast
That's right in line with my experience/preference as well.

Carbine (right) with Inforce 800 lumen, Pistol (left) with Inforce WML 400 lumen. I like the grip angle/thumb activation.

Carbine with Streamlight HL-X & Tape Switch:

#### rfjustin

##### Well-Known Member
My Father's day consisted of grilling ribeye steaks, shooting with friends, sub MOA groups at 325 yards with my 6.5 creed rig, and a Barrett 50. Days don't get much better.

#### rfjustin

##### Well-Known Member
New toy arrived that I ordered a month ago. I had not been to my LGS in months, very little stock to be had. Glad I have an LGS that is happy to take transfers from online retailers!

Ruger American Ranch in .223/5.56
Things added right out of the gate:
EGW 20 MOA scope rail base
Daniel Defense flash hider
Magpul bi-pod
Vortex Viper PST Gen 1, 6-24X50
Vortex Precision Rings (30mm, medium (0.97" height))
MK Machining (Amazon vendor) 3D printed throw lever
Timney trigger

Looking forward to seeing how it groups and record some muzzle velocities as well. I hope this rig is as accurate as my other Ruger American.

#### rfjustin

##### Well-Known Member
Rather than showing the best group with the new toy, lets show the worst one, right around 2.25". Quickly figured out this rifle does not like Black Hills 5.56, tipped 69 gr.

Also, match grade Prime .223, notably poor extreme spread as measured off Magneto.

#### Pat Gordzelik

##### Well-Known Member
Happy Independance Day folks!

I hope everyone is celebrating the results of the sacrifices our founders made for us.
July 4th is not a celebration of the creation of the United States of America. There was no such thing on July 4, 1776, nor did it exist on July 5th of that same year. It is a celebration of the day that 13 separate colonies of Great Britain declared their independence from Great Britain in one single action and declared that they were 13 independent, separate, self-governing nation-states.
“When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
Lest there are those confused about what happened because of this declaration, I feel I should draw some specific attention to the final paragraph.
“That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do.”

On a lighter side....

A little tune for patriots everywhere, as well as lovers of coffee...

Pat G

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
Happy Independance Day folks!

I hope everyone is celebrating the results of the sacrifices our founders made for us.
July 4th is not a celebration of the creation of the United States of America. There was no such thing on July 4, 1776, nor did it exist on July 5th of that same year. It is a celebration of the day that 13 separate colonies of Great Britain declared their independence from Great Britain in one single action and declared that they were 13 independent, separate, self-governing nation-states.
“When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
Lest there are those confused about what happened because of this declaration, I feel I should draw some specific attention to the final paragraph.
“That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do.”

On a lighter side....

A little tune for patriots everywhere, as well as lovers of coffee...

Pat G
Great video...needs more cannon!

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
Finished replacing the barrel on my AR .223 with WOA Predator 20”. Ready for the range. Trying to decide which MB to get or stick with the old one. I had bought one not realizing the thread is 5/8.

#### Andrew_ASC

##### UTC SEDS 2017 3rd/ SEDS 2018 1st
So I that particular situation then yes a light is helpful. But he proved it could be done without a light.

That is a good example of "What am I missing?" Thanks.

Even still it is a small sample of the gun world and just the opinion of two gun guys who are in that small sample. But yes, they do make a living, at least to some extent, with long guns.

My AR has no sights whatsoever. One attachment? I absolutely need some way to aim, which makes the rest of the video invalid. Just some guy telling me I need something that I know I don't need. Shooting in broad daylight, a light adds unnecessary weight. If I shot in that particular competition, then his words may hold some weight. In my real world applications, I don't need a weapon light, especially on my black rifle. Optic and foregrip are all the extras I "need".
I have used Surefire weapon lights to diffuse conflict with less lethal light lumens. They have very intense dinner plate hot spots. These things are bright enough to make people who are drunk and punching the blood out of each other and approaching you, physically grab there face and yell arghhhh my eyes. They also have a flood around the light hot spot that will illuminate about ten feet radius to either side for situational aware.

I don’t carry the weapon light on the gun during day time. At night I am a full advocate of having a weapon light option. Do not use a weapon mounted light to search for target. Use normal flash light for that. Cops will thank you. The weapon mounted lights on handguns etc are so you can positive ID, temp blind target, and more importantly, use either two hands on gun for better accuracy. Yes you can hold a flash light in one hand. And a gun in other. Under stress that’s much harder.

not saying you NEED a weapon light. I’m just saying it makes some tasks easier. And trust me. I hate the weight and bulk of the lights. I will say. I didn’t have to shoot someone in self defense because the light on weapon was bright enough to stop someone running at me fists out in drunken punching mode.

I have an acog, rmr, Magpul back up irons,Vickers 221 sling, and if at target range a Larue QD Harris bipod in my MR556A1 build. I don’t run a vert fore grip because I’m not a LEO guy who needs to smash a window out of a car with a muzzle.. If it’s night time I screw a Surefire M600DF onto the Gun’s pic rail. Larue makes quick detach options for scout lights btw.

More important than any piece of gear or gun is the brain you have. And the training you have. The amount of stress you’ll face once you’ve been downrange. Nothing really prepares you for that. Expect to freeze up literally from stress.

You can run your AR any way you please. I’m trying to explain a concept of thought to you. It’s harder for them to attack you if they can’t see you clearly because you’ve blinded them. More often I find myself using the Surefire lights around the house off the weapon oddly when power goes out. LOL.

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#### Andrew_ASC

##### UTC SEDS 2017 3rd/ SEDS 2018 1st

went to range few weeks ago with work friends. Buddy brought a Win 70 Swat rifle. It did 1.5” at 200 yards with crap ammo. His dad was a police sniper and gifted it to him. We are trying to work up to 1000 yards. I found some M118 LR recently.

Other random buys were HK G3 wood and like a barska cheap 11-44 spotter scope. Ammo seems harder to find lately normally I use sgammo.
Oh and tested Beta C mag not kci one. It works fine. More recently went to Larue Bipod. I’d say don’t waste money on a Magpul bipod.

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
Had a great day at the range after 5 months away. I was pleased that the barrel replacement of my AR worked flawlessly.

#### rfjustin

##### Well-Known Member
Had a great day at the range after 5 months away. I was pleased that the barrel replacement of my AR worked flawlessly.

View attachment 425822
Nice work! What does one need to get access to that shot measurement tool?

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
Nice work! What does one need to get access to that shot measurement tool?
I use the TDS version but the Precision Calculator works just as well.

There's also the subMOA app on my iPhone but I find it difficult to use so it's a backup for me.

#### rfjustin

##### Well-Known Member
I use the TDS version but the Precision Calculator works just as well.

There's also the subMOA app on my iPhone but I find it difficult to use so it's a backup for me.
Awesome, thanks, I'll check it out!

#### MOF410

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
So on the topic of guns and rockets...does anyone have a estes hunters choice set laying around they want to part with?

#### rfjustin

##### Well-Known Member
Traded my Sig P320 X5 to a friend of a friend (through a mutual FFL of course), for a new in the box VP9SK, and some cash money for me. Too bad 9mm is unobtanium right now, but I have some in the coffers to play with. I just cant seem to pass up a good deal on any HK I don't currently own.

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
Had a decent day at the range yesterday. The great thing about guns is that the bullets don't fly into a tree. Just saying...

#### rfjustin

##### Well-Known Member
Had a decent day at the range yesterday. The great thing about guns is that the bullets don't fly into a tree. Just saying...

View attachment 427673

View attachment 427674
Very nice groups!

The landowner wanted us to shoot the tree! Hooray for private property.

#### kenstarr

##### Well-Known Member
I haven't posted anything on trf for a thick minute! Haven't done much of anything anything rocket related either for a year or so. But I did discover the enjoyable world of gunsmithing and AR building!!! It's amazing how interrelated the two seem .
Ken

#### DRAGON64

##### Well-Known Member
Late last year, I started a semi-budget Rem 700 build, using a short barreled action, chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor, that I picked up from Eurooptic.com. Seems I picked up the barreled action at a good price, $499, as it is now listed at$699, which makes no sense to me...

The barreled action has sat through most of the pandemic, but lately I have have found a little motivation to pick up the pace; I have added a KRG Bravo stock, and replaced the trigger with a Timney 510. I have also added a clam-shell style bolt knob that I picked up off of ebay.

Rem 700 SPS Tactical AAC-SD in 6.5CM $499 KRG Bravo chassis/stock$349 + $9.99 for stock "hook" insert Timney 510 trigger$115
Clam-shell bolt knob $37 Harris bipod$97
Leupold 20moa base $37 SWFA med rings$37
SWFA 3-15X42 FFP scope $699 Action truing and bolt lapping$150

The rifle is currently at a gunsmith getting the action trued, and the bolt lapped, and when I get it back, I will get fully assembled images. Here is an image of the BA just after the Timney trigger install, and before the KRG Bravo installation.

A better look at the bolt knob from an image pulled from the ebay add: Pros: Cheap, and no butchering of the factory knob...

#### Dan Griffing

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Friends,

do we have somewhere in the Watering Hole or another subforum on Guns and Rockets? I love to build, launch and talk about rockets..but I also love to exchange views with other sport shooters... I do believe my Contrail Hybrid motors are in good company with my guns & rifles... This is obviously not about moral perceptions but simply sharing another hobby in common...

Thx for pointing me on the right subforum...
Denis
As a retired engineer in Montana, I was an avid big game hunter, long range shooter, handloader, and had spent 5 years and thousands of dollars developing a handheld instrument for measuring the rifle chamber pressure profiles for evaluating handloads.

And then Trump came along and the NRA became nothing but a Russian, Maria Butina - support organization for Trumpism. So in good conscience I could no longer be an NRA member. Because an NRA membership is a requirement for admission to the shooting range in Montana that my retirement shooting activities required, I had to abandon my 5 years of instrument development l to feel good with myself.

The technical challenges of high power rocketry easily fill in the void and I only had to swap two letters to become an NAR member.

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
As a retired engineer in Montana, I was an avid big game hunter, long range shooter, handloader, and had spent 5 years and thousands of dollars developing a handheld instrument for measuring the rifle chamber pressure profiles for evaluating handloads.

And then Trump came along and the NRA became nothing but a Russian, Maria Butina - support organization for Trumpism. So in good conscience I could no longer be an NRA member. Because an NRA membership is a requirement for admission to the shooting range in Montana that my retirement shooting activities required, I had to abandon my 5 years of instrument development l to feel good with myself.

The technical challenges of high power rocketry easily fill in the void and I only had to swap two letters to become an NAR member.
please keep your politics to yourself, this is a long running and popular thread because we keep politics out of it. We would like to hear more of your shooting and equipment.

#### n27sb

##### N27SB
TRF Supporter
Achieved my NRA Certified Instructors Rating this weekend.
Final shooting qualification is 16 out of 20 in a 6" group at 45 feet. Freestanding Pistol.

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