GUNS & ROCKETS

Discussion in 'The Watering Hole' started by legranddudu, Aug 27, 2014.

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  1. Oct 8, 2019 #1,321

    Yukon@K-9 Rocket Tech

    Yukon@K-9 Rocket Tech

    Yukon@K-9 Rocket Tech

    Just a teen who likes building rockets

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    I love guns, one of the most versitile tools created by man. I also love rockets, one of the fastest, coolest way to travel. I always see the gun community and the rocketry community share a lot in common.
    1. The love of explosions
    2. The love of fire
    3. The great family like community
    4. The extreme amount of science behind both systems
    5. A life long thing
    6. Both Expensive sports (carbon high powered rockets) (bravo company ARs)
     
  2. Oct 9, 2019 #1,322

    cherokeej

    cherokeej

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    Did someone say 22-250?

    Browning B78 falling block, topped with a Weaver V36. Carefully assembled hand loads will take a flea off a dog's butt at 100 yards without waking up the dog.

    That rifle is a ground grizzly's worst nightmare.
     
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  3. Oct 9, 2019 #1,323

    rharshberger

    rharshberger

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    Yep, and it turns them into exploding ground grizzies....

    My favorite varminter rifle was a 220 Swift caliber Ruger M77 Varminter (original model not Mk.2) scope was a 6.5x20 Leupold Vari-X III, that I epoxy bedded, tuned the trigger, and with custom loads would shoot 5 shot groups at 100yds .17". As most reloaders have found max velocity and accuracy did not accuracy make, the M77 preferred 52gr Nosler Ballistic Tips about 100-150fps over my 22-250s preferred load with the same bullet, but damn if the prairie pooches could get away within 300 yards (almost never) and usually I could get them out to 400 yards. Regretfully there was a hard time in my life 20 years ago and the 220 had to go (I since have another on a German 98K action, but its not quite as good). I own a fair number of varmint caliber rifles and all are tack drivers, usually through lots of tuning and work on my part.
     
  4. Oct 9, 2019 #1,324

    shreadvector

    shreadvector

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    Does this count?

     
  5. Oct 9, 2019 #1,325

    Jim Hinton

    Jim Hinton

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    It does in my house. I can't think of a better recipient for a ballistic solution than verminous insects.

    Jim
     
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  6. Oct 9, 2019 #1,326

    Nytrunner

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    Those are real fun to play with (I didn't even know it had a safety)
     
  7. Oct 10, 2019 #1,327

    rfjustin

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    In not so recent time, I would have argued there was really no reason to have (2) of the same gun. The VP9 is one of those rare exceptions. I have one, bone stock, love it, will never get rid of it. I have pistols that are more expensive/better you could argue, but the VP9 is a fantastic sidearm for the price. Same price point as Glock, but better ergonomics and trigger (especially the reset) out of the gate without modifications. Don’t get me wrong I think Glocks are great sidearms as well, I just like the ergonomics and trigger of the VP9 much more. Now if you compare the trigger of the VP9 to the HK45, no contest the HK45 wins, but the VP9 is cheaper to shoot.


    Buy your CCI Blazer Brass from Target Sports USA, I stocked up over the winter after I popped for the $90 membership. I can assure you, the membership pays for itself.
     
  8. Oct 10, 2019 #1,328

    rfjustin

    rfjustin

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    Grouch will like this, I joined the ACOG club. TA31-G-Aurora (4X32, green illumination, ACSS Aurora reticle) on a Larue mount. Fantastic little optic on a quality mount. Anything Larue Tactical is top notch quality.
     
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  9. Oct 10, 2019 #1,329

    Jim Hinton

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    I definitely concur on LaRue Tactical. I would recommend their MBT trigger for any AR platform.

    Jim
     
  10. Oct 11, 2019 #1,330

    rfjustin

    rfjustin

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    I could not agree more! I have one on the bench yet to be installed, and one installed in a 10.5" AR pistol. :)

    Resized_20191010_175854_9293.jpeg Resized_20191010_175902_1818.jpeg Resized_20191010_193843_3239.jpeg Resized_20191010_193914_5643.jpeg
     
  11. Oct 11, 2019 #1,331

    MikeyDSlagle

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    You seem a bit confused. The AR15 is .223/5.56. the AR10 is .308/7.62.
    The smaller round is made to wound and maim not necessarily kill, one reason they are FMJ; and also allows for a lighter rifle and more rounds in the magazine and on your person.

    I built an AR a few years back and it's OKAY. I need to tweak it and upgrade it maybe, but I like the Mini14 better. Lately I have been getting back into handguns. Bought a Springfield XDE.45 3.3" back in April and a few weeks ago got me a Ruger LCR 357. That thing is sweet. Almost bought a GP100 Wiley Clapp edition for a tad over 600 bucks. But I wanted the LCR for CCW, the XDE is okay (grip heavy and wants to sag) but the LCR vanishes under a t shirt. Got some kick with 357 loads for sure but it's very manageable.

    GP100 or Chiappa Rhino is next...well maybe a Ruger Precision Rifle, or something in the flavor of .26 Nosler.
     
  12. Oct 11, 2019 #1,332

    Hooked On Rockets

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    LOL...You are right I was confused in my typing vs my thinking...:oops::(
    I did have the 10 and the 15 in reverse order....STUPID FINGERS!!!
    That WAS embarrassing now that I see that...:confused:

    From what I read MANY years ago....before most of us had internet, the 5.56/AR platform was designed for close quarter combat in the jungle...
    ..a "lighter/smaller" rifle with lighter ammo for "deep haul" missions...but I thought it was still intended to kill the enemy in the time of war...
    Anyway, I'll take the 308/7.62 any day over the "22"....;)
     
  13. Oct 11, 2019 #1,333

    rharshberger

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    Military ammo is designed to wound more than kill, ammo that's designed to kill such as expanding bullets (lead noses, hollow points, etc) is banned by the Geneva Convention (iirc). A wounded soldier requires care from one or more others, a dead soldier, mark the location and move on. These were the reasons I was given many years ago whether factual or otherwise (back when I wore US ARMY green).

    As for the caliber, the 5.56 was indeed chosen for its lighter weight, as well as it was less physically demanding on the shooter both because of the weight of the rifle and the effects of recoil, it was also easier to shoot accurately, though it does have a shorter effective range than the 7.62 NATO round.
     
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  14. Oct 11, 2019 #1,334

    MikeyDSlagle

    MikeyDSlagle

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    Right. I was taught the same, though I never served. Wounding someone takes two or three people out of the fight, not just one. The idea behind banning the expanding/exploding bullets is to increase a person's chance of survival after being hit. You remove them from the battlefield, but after all is said and done they are still alive and can (possibly) go on living a meaningful life. The FMJ rounds are known to tumble through bodies, increasing "terminal performance" making them more lethal, so it is a bit conflicting. FMJ are also a lot cheaper. The 5.56 was required to penetrate body armor and helmets at a certain range and hollow points probably couldn't do that, another reason for FMJ.
    The M2010 does however use hollow points and are designed to kill. So snipers are exempt I guess.

    I don't think the AR10 actually saw service but it was downsized into the AR15. We see a few M110 SASS rifles come through training which is based loosely on the AR10. Most folks I talk to don't care for them.
     
  15. Oct 11, 2019 #1,335

    manixFan

    manixFan

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    Holy cow, read the Wikipedia article on the development of the 5.56 round. At the intended velocity it is incredibly lethal, it's only after barrels were shortened the twist rate was changed that the issues started to occur. The myths around the 5.56 are just ridiculous.


    Tony
     
  16. Oct 11, 2019 #1,336

    rharshberger

    rharshberger

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    Somewhat yes, the round is lethal but the newer ammo,(err for the M16A2,we were still using M16A1 triangular handguard weapons when I got to my first unit in 1992) the shorter barrels and faster twist rates produce a bullet with an effect similar to a drill as the bullet is more stable, the higher rotational rate does create a bit more shock ( hydrostatic?) and the bullet tends to punch a very linear hole unless it hits something solid like bone. Modern barrels are typically are in the 16" range as that happens to be enough length to develop full velocity from the 5.56 round, the only thing a longer barrel gains the shooter is a longer sight radius which improves accuracy, a small amount of additional velocity can be gained as well but its a diminishing returns. iirc the original ball ammo for the M16 was a 55grain FMJ and later versions were up to 63 grain.
     
  17. Oct 12, 2019 #1,337

    manixFan

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    Not true:

    http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/barrel-length-studies-in-5-56mm-nato-weapons/

    The max velocity comes from a 20" barrel which is what the original round was designed for. Shorter barrels produce lower velocities. The chart in that article is hard to read but the difference is about 170fps, which is substantial. There are many other sources that show military testing produces the same results. In fact velocities continue to rise with barrel length.


    Tony
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  18. Oct 12, 2019 #1,338

    rharshberger

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  19. Oct 12, 2019 #1,339

    Hooked On Rockets

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    Jeeze...
    I wish I had time to really get into this discussion....
    because the last 6 posts are arguing about only 2 parts of the 4 parts of the "BIG EQUASION".....
    ya left out twist rate vs barrel length vs projectile weight/length....

    There is a HUGE difference between cutting 4 inches off of a 22" barrel with a twist rate of 1:14 ROT than having an 18" barrel with 1:10 ROT.

    Ya'll posted many educational links....but did you really read them???

    One said that they had a 10" barrel but it had a 1:7" ROT.....
    They compensated for the shorter barrel by adding more twist rate...(IE: more friction, which helps to utilize more of the powder charge WITH A SHORTER BARREL!!!

    SO....
    Let's take out ALL cartridge case sizes and stick to the "22 caliber" Center Fire PROJECTILE....
    that so many seem to be stuck on...
    And let us use simple PHYSICS concerning ballistics.... regardless of brands/civilian/military/ammo/color/aiming point/yada yada..

    Basically:
    1:
    Slower twist rates are good for lighter projectiles..varmint bullets and such...they have enough spin to stabilize the projectile.
    2:
    Faster rates of twist are needed for heaver/longer bullets of the same caliber in order to stabilized flight.
    3:
    If you increase twist rate to a shorter barrel, you "can" increase friction and can potentially utilize more power from a "standard" powder charge.
    Cutting off a barrel has no effect on twist rate....you could potentially lose stability on ALL projectiles fired...depending on existing twist rate...
    4:
    Light weight "varmint" projectiles fired from a high rate of twist/long barrel can absolutely self destruct after leaving the barrel...they aren't made for high twist rates...and the self destruction HAS been documented....search and you will find....still talking .22 cal here...it's in most reloading manuals....at least in the ones that I have.......
    5:
    All of the above comments are concerning reloading your own ammo and matching your own loads to your own rifle/pistol.....
    If you do that....you should be able to find an accurate load/bullet weight/powder charge that is acceptable....

    May take some work, but if you cut barrels with a light twist rate and only shoot factory ammo, you are seeking a hard time of finding accuracy....



    Ya gotta know what you have vs what you want and whether or not you can make what you want out of what you have...IE
    Accuracy/availability/budget/convenience/intended use....

    I'm a fan of big powerful calibers....anything in less than 357/44 is just kinda..."whats the point"....for handguns....
    All that "recoil too much" stuff......ya gotta get out and fire something bigger than 9mm (barf) at a range,
    You will acclimate.....

    Thanks!!

    And now for something completely different.....
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  20. Oct 12, 2019 #1,340

    Hooked On Rockets

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    And now for something completely different.....Guns and calibers I don't really care for...

    Let us start with the 45 auto....and the 1911....

    and I KNOW I'm gonna get BURNED AT THE STAKE for this one....BUT...

    The 45 ACP......firstly, we've had airplanes that fly faster than THAT projectile SINCE THE 1950s!!!!!
    Need I say more? No, but I will because there is SO MUCH MORE (or actually LESS for the 45 auto)...

    Let's start with muzzle energy (according to ALL my reloading manuals)...
    Not bullet speed or length or what gun...just energy from the powder charge....

    The 45 Auto has TWICE the energy of the 9mm..YEAH!!!! ....OH WAIT....that's like saying that something has twice the energy of a
    PUSH BROOM.... LOL, but pretty much...

    My own anecdote using my 45 auto barrel in my interchangeable EAA Witness.....
    with my own HOT loaded ammo..(I always load towards the upper end of recommended charges)...
    I had an old "ol school" 34" CRT T.V. that I was getting rid of,
    I took it out back on my property and set it up, and from about 20 feet, I fired....the bullet bounced off leaving not a crack, just a little smudge of lead...
    Thank goodness the ricochet didn't hit me, but than again, I accounted the angle to make sure that of there was a ricochet...SOP...

    Anyway..45 ACP...pretty weak.....
    AND YES...I've read the story about the Army/Military having trouble with the then issued 38s not stopping the tribe that was hopped up on drugs or religion and the 45 worked better...so please don't try to justify the "value" of the 45 ACP by posting links to those stories....
    Thanks...

    Now to the pistol that was designed to shoot the 45 Auto round.....
    (and I can't throw a dead cat without hitting an ad in my inbox about the 1911 pistol....

    The 1911 Semi-Auto Pistol....
    GRRRRRR....

    I don't like them, they are too heavy, too bulky, too ugly...they only hold, what 8 rounds???
    of what..45 AUTO????
    THAT bounces off of T.V screens and tempered glass back windows of 1972 AMC Gremlins...
    And are going for $800.00 to $3000.00.......

    Someone somewhere is smoking crack.....my opinion

    I just don't get the mania....
    Sorry!!!

    Me likes BIG calibers, just in case I haven't mentioned that before....:D

    I have a few more that I don't care for but I'm out of time....

    So PLEASE tell us all of YOUR guns/calibers that YOU don't care for.....

    And I will have a few more too....:)
     
  21. Oct 13, 2019 #1,341

    MikeyDSlagle

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    The 45CAP wasn't designed to shoot through TVs, or Gremlins, or armored cars or Abrams tanks or any of the plethora materials that people knock the round for just because it can't penetrate it. It does what it is designed to do.

    As for the 1911, everything you hate about it is personal opinion. To me it is beautiful, elegant and simple. Too heavy? Really? Too bulky? Mine disappears under a t-shirt in a Versa Carry Commander...with a spare mag; and have you ever held a double stack? Or a Glock? That is bulky. How many rounds do you need? Mine holds 7. How many does your 357 hold, 5...6? If it holds more than that it is "too heavy". My carry revolver holds 5.
    I don't carry my 1911. It is too big to CCW comfortably most of the time,and it's a target model anyway. Slights are too grabby.
    357/9mm, same caliber. Just saying. But i I don't like the 9mm either. ( a bit of a poke there, I get what your are saying about big calibers)
     
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  22. Oct 13, 2019 #1,342

    manixFan

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    The 1911 is a mechanical work of art compared to today's plastic POS. After reading your post I'm pretty sure I know who is smoking crack!


    Tony

    the 1911 in all its "too heavy, too bulky, too ugly", glory:
    Pro-with-mag-left.jpg
     
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  23. Oct 13, 2019 #1,343

    Hooked On Rockets

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    LOL...as usual...when I post on TRF.....I seem to ruffle some feathers and cause some gill flutter...no matter what subject I post about....
    LOL

    The 45 auto is ABSOLUTLY a great part of our military history, just, for me, it's...
    Too outdated,
    Too expensive (for the ammo it shoots), I load my own...
    It's limited by the era of it's design....1911...

    I LOVE what it has done when it was created....but I don't really care for it...
    We've had AIRPLANES that fly faster than that bullet since the 1950s...Just sayin'
    LOL

    That's the whole point...matter of opinion.....
    But why did you state that your 1911 disappears under your shirt and then you stated "I don't carry my 1911. Its too big to carry CCW comfortably..."....
    Anyway....There are much more potent-accurate-concealable rounds/guns that you can keep in the pocket...
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
  24. Oct 13, 2019 #1,344

    Mugs914

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    I like 1911s for all the reasons Mikey and Mannix mentioned! I do occasionally carry one (hides just fine under a t-shirt in a Crossbreed IWB holster).

    My typical daily carry is a polymer, striker-fired single stack. A Mossberg MC1, in, well, 9mm.:cool: (Great little pistola, by the way!) I swore off 9mm years ago for all the same reasons everyone else did, but the new 9mm ammo is pretty darn good and, after all, once the interweb bickerin' is over, shot placement is still the bottom line.
     
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  25. Oct 13, 2019 #1,345

    dhbarr

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    No THIS is too bulky to CC: diablo-nickel-rose_1-246-600x600.jpg
     
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  26. Oct 13, 2019 #1,346

    MClark

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  27. Oct 13, 2019 #1,347

    Mugs914

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    Which is okay, because I'd wanna show off anything that purty!:cool::cool:
     
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  28. Oct 13, 2019 #1,348

    Hooked On Rockets

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    Perhaps...FWIW, and for those who care to read, maybe my history of firearms might help to see what makes my opinion..
    I have absolutely no deleterious thoughts or feelings against anyone's choice or favorites of firearms....never meant to insult or hurt anyone's feelings or start an argument....

    So, here's my boring story.....

    When I was between the ripe old age of 4 or 5 years old, I found a 22 revolver in the SWB property across the street from where we lived...
    It was dirty and rusty when I brought it home...My dad took it apart and cleaned it up and made it firable..
    We both shot that together quite a few times....I actually took that to school in the 1st grade for show and tell..and it was ALLOWED!!!
    Dad had a 25-06 at that time but I never really saw him shoot or anything.....
    We lived in Ft Worth....

    Fast forward to when I was 11/12 or so, we had already moved to Austin....
    The house we bought...you open the back door and it trees and wildlife, we were one of the first 4 or 5 houses built in that subdivision..
    it was almost a mile to the nearest road, and beyond that road was acres and acres of pure wild woods...
    Somewhere along that time, dad had bought a Remington 1100 shotgun.....
    He was letting me help reload rounds for the 25-06.....he taught me how important it was to clean and maintain firearms...
    (but even back then...reloading shotgun shells was too much trouble for the money..not sure how much shell were but I could buy a pack of 50 rounds of 22LR for 59 CENTS!! And it's hard to make a "tack-driver" out of a shotgun LOL)

    Anyway, I had a daisy bb/pellet gun and I had been taking and shooting dad's shotgun "out past the road" in the woods...he didn't know that..LOL
    He always said it was too big for me....well, I wanted to prove him wrong....just for MY sake.....LOL...He never knew about it...

    Anyway...fast forward again...yes I warned ya'll in the beginning that this is a boring story...
    ....then I was plucked from Austin and taken to Houston when I was 14....HATED IT!!! I left my girlfriend, who was almost 6 months pregnant
    ...He turned 41 last April...but I digress.....back to guns...LOL

    So now, I've been in Houston and couldn't think of any reason to own a firearm...I grew up in a rifle line of thinking, I thought "where could I go hunting and shooting?" ...well, NOWHERE!!! LOL

    Owning a firearm never crossed my mind....didn't see the point....

    Fast forward again from age 14 to age 38ish....
    I had been inspecting construction for an engineering firm for about a year, was being able to get back in the "woods" on my construction sites.....so I bought an SKS (Chinese) from Frontier Firearms....right up the road from my jobsite....

    So, not long after I bought that, me and my next door neighbor and I were talking guns and he said "I bought an HK 40mm and this gun is TOP SHELF"
    Well, I was hooked....I found it at the lowest price I could find...bought it...
    SEVERLY DISSAPOINTED!!!!..The slide rattled on the frame, the barrel rattled inside the slide...the trigger was CRAP!!!!!
    I paid right at $500.00 bucks for that RAG.....
    I wanted a REAL gun......

    So, one day I went to Collectors Firearms...new guns..priced WAY TOO HIGH....went to the used section and picked up a Thompson Center Contender with a 14" 44 Mag barrel, a Hornady single stage reload press and dies for 44....for a little less than $200.00...

    Bought a box of 50 RNDS of Winchester XX 44Mag and went to the range.....
    Never fired a 44Mag before....and my Contender had THE WORST WOODEN GRIP that I think exists...
    After firing about 15ish rounds, MY WRIST/HAND HURTS!!!! DID I STOP????? ...NO
    I Fired all 50 rounds.....
    Seriously, My hand was sore for over a month!!!!!
    But I loved it!!!!

    So, back to the HK 40.....couldn't hit the barn-side of a broad with that thing..LOL..so I went and traded it for a NEW Thompson Center Encore in Remington 270......NEVER LOOKED BACK!!!!!
    The Encore was going for $375.00ish and I paid $500.00ish for the HK but I never considered it a loss,
    it was a whole different WORLD of placing projectiles!!!
    I got to where I could hit a 2" wide lath from 100 yrds standing with no gun support....
    This thing is accurate to 500 Yrds+ with a scope.....without breaking a sweat.....

    Anyway, picked up a derringer in 30-30 caliber somewhere along the way at a pawn shop for $145.00....

    Bought a 480 Ruger revolver.....it was OK but just not enough.......traded that for some work around the house that I needed (That was about 14 years ago)....

    Picked up the EAA 10mm/45/22 Witness......first one got stolen and replaced...along with my first 500 S&W mag revolver, which was also replaced...

    SO!!!!!!!.......
    Does it make any sense to why the 45 Auto just doesn't "float my boat"???

    Nothing personal.......just ME!!!!!

    Thanks all for letting me throw myself..and my vulnerabilities out here....
    We are ALL of a fellowship of rocketry...and other "projectiles"....LOL

    Oh Jeese...(edit) I forgot about my 338 Remington Ultra Mag....
    I was looking over my latest reloading manuals...I was thinking of buying a rifle...not sure which one I wanted...the 338RUM had just came out, so it wasn't in any reload books....
    I wanted something big....
    Went to Carter's Country browsing the shelves....saw a Remington 700 ADL with a beautiful wooden stock and asked "what caliber is that?"
    He said "338 Remington Ultra Mag"...
    I said "can I see that round?".....
    He handed me a box rounds, and after looking at those perfect-huge rounds,I put that gun in lay away immediately...!!!
    I ordered the sizing die and brass and bullets and had 100 rounds loaded before I got the rifle out of lay away...
    338 R.U.M....one of my favorite calibers!!!


    S.S.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
  29. Oct 13, 2019 #1,349

    Hooked On Rockets

    Hooked On Rockets

    Hooked On Rockets

    Forum Supporter TRF Supporter

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    YES!!! That is BEAUTIFULL!!!!!!!

    I sure hope it's 10ga and not that whimpy 12ga!!!!!!!
    LOL JUST KIDDING!!!!
    That is AWESOME!!!!
     
  30. Oct 13, 2019 #1,350

    OverTheTop

    OverTheTop

    OverTheTop

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    I started shooting with an air rifle at around age eight. When I was 12 I got a semi-automatic 22cal for my birthday. I naturally took it in for show-and-tell to my grade 6 class. Walked it to and from school. At least it was in a gun bag :).

    Try doing that these days. What could possibly go wrong :eek:.

    Dad had a five-shot semi-automatic 12gauge shotgun. That was a nice gun, but I really don't like shotguns. Not my style of shooting. The only shotgun I own now is a single-shot that was owned by my grandfather. I wouldn't trust putting a cartridge in that one. It needs a lot of TLC be be brought up to shooting spec.
     
    Hooked On Rockets likes this.

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