# GUNS & ROCKETS

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#### DavidMcCann

##### Well-Known Member
was chatting with my dad once about low magazine count. His reply? "empty? reload. I don't understand the issue." (from a guy who carried a 60, but I digress)

breakdown and cleaning is pretty simple.....

It's a Sig nightmare.... I know....I know....

But lets face it.... the gun works...the round works.

Heavy? naw...... mine is only 39 oz unloaded. barely notice it.

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#### Hooked On Rockets

##### Well-Known Member
Here we go....

LOL....adding Sig S to the mix is only adding to MY point of argument...
$$But nice looking ejection port...except where it says .45 Auto.... ....and Sis Sauer.....LOL Y'all just make it too easy....LOL Hmmm, I Think I asked for all of y'all to pick calibers/guns that YOU DONT LIKE... Can we PLEASE get off of defending the 45 auto???? PICK SOMETHING YOU DON'T LIKE!!!!!! PLEASE!!!! #### DavidMcCann ##### Well-Known Member LOL....adding Sig S to the mix is only adding to MY point of argument...$$
But nice looking ejection port...except where it says .45 Auto....
....and Sis Sauer.....LOL
Y'all just make it too easy....LOL

Hmmm, I Think I asked for all of y'all to pick calibers/guns that YOU DONT LIKE...
Can we PLEASE get off of defending the 45 auto????

PICK SOMETHING YOU DON'T LIKE!!!!!!
Well.... yea its not cheap. Kinda the point. I've shot my wife's glock 23. It was like drinking room temp water.

What don't I like? Well there's a reason most SW 500's come used with a box of 49 rounds....

#### Hooked On Rockets

##### Well-Known Member
Well.... yea its not cheap. Kinda the point. I've shot my wife's glock 23. It was like drinking room temp water.

What don't I like? Well there's a reason most SW 500's come used with a box of 49 rounds....
HA Ha Ha LOL....
Heard that story many-a-times with the 500....But I fired at least 300+ rounds through the first one I had (that got stolen)...and again, I Load HOT...
I guess that firing those wimpy 50 rounds of 44 mag with the horrible wooden grip as my "first" handgun session has added more "rose color" to my shooting glasses.....But

Me LOVES me 500 S&W.....for what it is...it pretty much of a tack-driver....
out of a REVOLVER!!!!

#### MikeyDSlagle

##### Well-Known Member
@Hooked On Rockets
Believe me sir I am not offended. Just trying to educate the uneducated:
An individual who says 8 rounds is not enough but glorifies single shots and deringers.
An individual who says 800 is too much for a near match grade semi auto with 8 shots but loves a $1200 5 or 6 shot revolver. An individual who compares a high power rifle, 270, from a 15" (?) barrel to pistol round in a 5" barrel. Wow. Pay more get more. I could bet my life on a 200 dollar Taurus or a 500 dollar Ruger. It's gonna be the Ruger. My LCRX fits in a pocket and is 357 mag, 5 shots. I'm not going to war. I said my 1911 disappears under a t-shirt because you said they are bulky. They are not. You quoted me out of context. I said most of the time, with grabby sights, which digs into my dunlap or my side when I sit. A proper carry 1911 has proper carry sights. I had a Daisy Red Rider when I was 4. A 22 at 6. I've shot all my life. I don't pretend to be an expert but I can hold my own. My grandad was a wildcatter, my dad a shade tree gunsmith. I don't spend my pennies on cheap EAA guns then complain because a hand fitted match Kimber costs 1000 bucks. I don't buy single shots and then knock a centuries plus old design because it only holds 8? I mean com 'on. It's hard to explain to a cop why you had to shoot a person, or at a person, 14 times. You cannot truly think you can compare a revolver round with an automatic do you? And even more so a high power rifle round? Jeez. Last edited: #### manixFan ##### Not a rocket scientist Something I find funny is when someone dislikes something they've never owned or used. I don't like Glocks in spite of wanting to like them because of all the love they get for being inexpensive and reliable. But I just can't stand how they feel in my hand, nor can I shoot well with them. Their grip angle is offset from the 1911 grip I've shot my entire life so my muscle memory just does not work with a Glock. So my dislike is based on my personal experience. But I would not suppose to tell someone else that a Glock is no good just because it does not work for me. But there is a reason why the vast majority of bullseye shooters use 1911's - they are just a lot easier than most modern pistols to work on for accuracy and trigger adjustments. With a set of stones and a jig I can get a very decent trigger on nearly any 1911 without changing out parts. Heck, I can adjust the trigger pull by just bending the sear spring. But with most of todays polymer framed pistols, there is no way to easily adjust the trigger without a replacement kit. When I upgraded my XD-M trigger using a Powder River "Drop-in-kit" kit it was like brain surgery. Plus, there is the 'pride of ownership' aspect as well. My 1911s will be passed on, my poly pistols will get passed over. Tony Last edited: #### Mugs914 ##### 220, 221; whatever it takes... Right there with you Tony. I'm not a Glock hater at all. My dislike of Glock pistols is based on my experience with them. They don't fit my hand very well, and, in spite of it being a bit of a cliche, I really don't like their triggers. I will never say they are bad weapons, they are just not my shot of whiskey. That being said, some of the Glock fanboy crowd CAN be somewhat annoying at times... #### timbucktoo ##### Well-Known Member Staff member Global Mod Had a Glock but like others have said, didn’t like the fit in hand. Now I love the feel of my 1911! Then again you can’t please everyone. #### manixFan ##### Not a rocket scientist Ok, now just to really go sideways with this, how about a 1911 in 9mm? Some say heresy, I say pretty nice looking. Same way some hate the large roll mark Series 70's, but I really like them. Tony #### rharshberger ##### Well-Known Member Well, I AM A GLOCK HATER, but I have also owned three over the last 20 years (M17, M19 and M24). I prefer my 1911's, Springfield XD 40 Compact, S&W Shield 45ACP, two HK USP's (both 45ACP, one full size one compact) and the full size has a conversion barrel for 400 Corbon, just in case 45 +P is too slow to catch whatever I am shooting at. And also a few other fun pistols including my three favorite target models S&W Model 41, High Standard Model 107 Supermatic Citation, and a Browning Buckmark 7" Target model, all of which I have used for competitive shooting and plinking. #### rharshberger ##### Well-Known Member Nothing wrong with them in 9mm, 38 Super, 40 (a buddy had one by Kimber in 40 S&W), or even .22 with an ACE conversion or a KART .22 conversion kit. Ok, now just to really go sideways with this, how about a 1911 in 9mm? Some say heresy, I say pretty nice looking. Same way some hate the large roll mark Series 70's, but I really like them. Tony View attachment 395916 #### DavidMcCann ##### Well-Known Member Ok, now just to really go sideways with this, how about a 1911 in 9mm? Some say heresy, I say pretty nice looking. at$10/ box for 9, and \$20 for .45, I'm looking to pick up a 9.

I like the way glocks feel in my hand.... and the trigger isn't terrible.... but something about the entire experience of shooting it is.... boring. I'm probably going to pick up a G19 and play with it some. Also the idea of a 1911 in 9 is attractive. In a two pound gun I'm wondering if you even feel it fire...

#### DavidMcCann

##### Well-Known Member
HA Ha Ha LOL....
Heard that story many-a-times with the 500....But I fired at least 300+ rounds through the first one I had (that got stolen)
I'm sure its a good time.... but 300 rounds is an afternoon with a .45

Liking big calibers is cool.... but I mean.... what the hell are they for?

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
Stopping power, a larger heavier bullet can hit harder and penetrate deeper causing a much larger wound channel (again velocity, bullet mass, and caliber come into play). The lethality of modern bullets is better than it used to be, IMO a modern 9mm hollow point is as lethal as a 45 ACP was 30 years ago, but a 45 ACP bullet has also gotten much more lethal over the years as well.
I'm sure its a good time.... but 300 rounds is an afternoon with a .45

Liking big calibers is cool.... but I mean.... what the hell are they for?

#### richP

##### Well-Known Member
Ok, now just to really go sideways with this, how about a 1911 in 9mm? Some say heresy, I say pretty nice looking. Same way some hate the large roll mark Series 70's, but I really like them.

Tony
I have a 1911 in 45 and in 9mm, as well as a self-built 2011 in 40S&W. The 9mm is a Dan Wesson, and while it is a great shooter, it is fairly heavy, coming in at 43 oz. with an empty mag. I use the gun mostly for action shooting games, and the added weight is a benefit in that role.
I don't really understand why some folks have such a dislike for the 9mm, but I suppose the same can be said for many calibers; especially when their opinions are formed by hearsay, rather than research. With modern ammo, it is just as capable as any other self-defense round. Any minuscule differences in performance could easily be attributed to shot placement, rather than caliber.

Figure I'll throw in a pic of the 2011. Notice the lack of any markings. Other side has a personalized serial number and frame manufacturer, nothing else.

#### DavidMcCann

##### Well-Known Member
Stopping power, a larger heavier bullet can hit harder and penetrate deeper causing a much larger wound channel (again velocity, bullet mass, and caliber come into play).
That is all true.... however, practicality comes into play. When he's saying 1911's suck because they're heavy and have a low capacity.... then goes " SW .500!" Well, I'm gonna just stand there and look stunned.

Sure, it'll hit super hard....and if you're out hunting elephants Ill give you that. In any practical situation, it's about as useful as a sharp brick.

In any situation a .500 would be beneficial, you'd be better served by any one of a dozen rifles.

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
Guns are like rockets, there's something for everyone. You want to "concealed carry" a 500 S&W go for it, or even a little Beretta .22 there's that too. I actually knew a guy who concealed carried a Desert Eagle 50AE, stunned the hell outta me when he pulled it out from under his vest and he wasn't a large guy. I personally prefer a small frame 45ACP like my S&W M&P Shield for my personal defense, for just general practice I prefer the 9mm as ammo is a bit cheaper, or better yet .22 to develop better accuracy and form.

#### FredA

##### Well-Known Member

And now for something different:
Here's where I spent last weekend....
The Extreme Benchrest Comp. in Arizona.
(for Airguns)

Shot well enough to make the finals!

#### FredA

##### Well-Known Member
Here's a little airgun eye-candy.
This is the Daystate Redwolf I shot at EBR.
Not the best pic, but it's all I have right now.....

#### Jim Hinton

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Here's a little airgun eye-candy.
This is the Daystate Redwolf I shot at EBR.
Not the best pic, but it's all I have right now.....
View attachment 395967
That is quite nice. Those laminates are something of a bear to shape and sand. They got to do quite a lot of it.

Jim

#### o1d_dude

##### 'I battle gravity'
[Climbs up on soapbox]

As a person living in a Red Flag Law state, I have no comment to make with respect to firearms or their ownership other than it is a Constitutionally protected right. “Arms” should also not be defined as being limited to guns. Arms covers a wide variety of weapons (swords, knives, spears, pepper spray, stun guns, etc.)

Author of the Second Amendment George Mason on the militia: “I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few public officials.”

No reference to National Guard, hunting, or “sporting purposes” in the Second Amendment.

[Steps off soapbox]

Random o1d_dude fact provided for context: An ancestor, James Tylee of New York, a farmer, fought and died at the Alamo. Yes, I am an honorary Texan and lived there for several years.

@FredA: Sweet Redwolf. Modern airguns, both pellet AND BB have become state of the art in terms of accuracy and function and allow marksmanship practice at low cost, minimal noise, and in indoor and backyard “ranges”.

#### Andrew_ASC

##### UTC SEDS 2017 3rd/ SEDS 2018 1st
Well guys I got a lasermax guide rod for my HK VP9 LE. Can’t seem to find any reviews on line. It’s definitely going to range a lot. I got about 1500 rounds last weekend. Need to test it out. To the guy asking me about the VP9 LE trigger or what yes I love it dearly for a striker gun. Up to 5,600 rounds now. Bought a Surefire X300U/A, four more mags for a total of 12 mags. I’ll keep y’all updated on the lasermax.

Stupid simple install. This toggle switch for HK seems much superior to the lasermax Glock activation. No raven holster would turn laser on by accident so far. This really helps with around corners and cover. You expose less of yourself. You can aim when you can’t access the irons. I still like irons but I love options too damnit. I’ll update later... only con I can find is 1 hour batt life for 3 x 393 cells.

#### Jim Hinton

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
View attachment 396912 View attachment 396911 View attachment 396909 Well guys I got a lasermax guide rod for my HK VP9 LE. Can’t seem to find any reviews on line. It’s definitely going to range a lot. I got about 1500 rounds last weekend. Need to test it out. To the guy asking me about the VP9 LE trigger or what yes I love it dearly for a striker gun. Up to 5,600 rounds now. Bought a Surefire X300U/A, four more mags for a total of 12 mags. I’ll keep y’all updated on the lasermax. View attachment 396910
Stupid simple install. This toggle switch for HK seems much superior to the lasermax Glock activation. No raven holster would turn laser on by accident so far. This really helps with around corners and cover. You expose less of yourself. You can aim when you can’t access the irons. I still like irons but I love options too damnit. I’ll update later... only con I can find is 1 hour batt life for 3 x 393 cells.
Modern laser sights are most impressive. Please keep us updated on product performance.

Jim

#### Mugs914

##### 220, 221; whatever it takes...
Is the laser activation on the takedown lever? That is pretty cool... I have seen guide rod lasers before but have zero experience. I'll be interested to see what you think of it.

#### Andrew_ASC

##### UTC SEDS 2017 3rd/ SEDS 2018 1st
Modern laser sights are most impressive. Please keep us updated on product performance.

Jim
Affirm. I want at least a thousand or more rounds down on it before I say anything too positive. It is in use with military and LE units. First impressions are very good.

I also got a Surefire X300U/A wml (flashlight for rail mount) delivered today. One thing I will do is see if 600 lumen weapon light over powers the laser dot. I was seeing some YouTube videos of some other experienced users and running a light with a laser seems smart for no light or low light. The other thing I want to test is since I have two Hk VP9 I can pull the laser rod out and put in the other gun and see if it really lives up to the claim of no aligning needed. It’s zeroed from factory at twenty yards: they claim 1” at Ten yards. Lasermax also claimed no poi shift at 5000 rounds later.

The only real con I heard from a law officer was he had to clean it every 100 rounds the lens with like isopropyl wipe.

The main advantage is it allows weird angles around corners, walls, and cars that irons won’t allow. You simply don’t need the firearm full arms extended using irons in a cramped environment if needed with the laser working. The other reason I bought it was for seeing my grip how downrange my grip could affect accuracy during live fire. There are LaserLytes cheaper but they do not do live fire training. This thing has serious uses beyond live fire training aid in my opinion. I need to get more rounds downrange with the system.

This was way cheaper than going to an X400 Surefire and I don’t need to align the laser with live fire ammo each time I disassemble the gun. That alone is what interests me. I’ve used irons or scopes all my life but I am trying this as an additional option out of curiousity. I do not believe the bias of a laser will stop an attacker. If it does that’s a plus but don’t count on it that way. At worst it fails you still got iron sights.

#### Andrew_ASC

##### UTC SEDS 2017 3rd/ SEDS 2018 1st
Is the laser activation on the takedown lever?
For the HK VP9 Model yes. Laser also pulses for this model. Technically they give you an aftermarket take down lever which has a toggle. Forward is on rear is off. I prefer manual activation of a laser. It may not always be desired to have laser turn on as soon as you draw the gun. That was why I didn’t go with other systems. I wanted to retain ability to use my holster also. (Think weather like fog or smoke environment and that would be super bad for hiding yourself.)

In my right hand it takes the left support hand to activate. In left hand only I can toggle laser on. HK disassembly lever itself will not activate with mag inserted. The laser on/off toggle is very light to touch and moves easily with fingertip along frame side. The takedown lever on Hk takes a bit of force (changing grip off of aiming) with slide locked back and also with mag removed. In this sense I feel there is VERY low risk of accidental disassembly of gun. That was another fear I had before I physically had a lasermax in my hands. Lastly it comes with a five year warranty.

I did some research and Glock activates from either side by cross bar. The Glock owners complain on certain guns of some holsters turning it on by accident. I have zero issues with the toggle switch on my Hk. Lastly the slide racking feels strong as OEM. Again sorry for long reply. These units are expensive and I feel you guys should know how I feel about it.

#### rfjustin

##### Well-Known Member
Good luck getting that Surefire X300 to snap in place on your VP9... go ahead, ask me how I know...

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