Found a group of people nearly as annoying as soccer dads....

[Rocket86]

I've found some of the grounds keepers to be snippy though. One older dude in a red Ford truck commented to me that they wanted to ban rockets from the field. Good luck with that!

60 Acres is a great place to launch and I just discovered it for myself this year. It's 40 miles for me, but the space is well worth the drive. I have had quite a few R/C planes fly close to my launch site, but luckily not right over it. It's a big place but some flyers just get too close to people who are already set up.

I wouldn't be too sure that they won't ban rockets from 60 Acres though. It worries me that a groundskeeper is making remarks like that. I don't know what his beef is, but it could be seeing recovery wadding strewn about the field. Sometimes there is a lot of it, especially after a big group launch. Like any users of public lands we need to pick up after ourselves and keep the fields neat. It's easy to see the wadding when you recover a rocket, so I just make a habit of picking up what I see. It doesn't have to be from your own rocket, even though it's often easy to do that. If we all did that it might help soothe any complaints there might be about us littering.

I hope guy the guy in the red truck is the exception rather than the rule, but if he's a groundskeeper and complains loud enough who knows what he could do. Especially if he's buddies with the guy that was hassleing Paul.

 

[shockie]

So, this afternoon I took my daughter out to 60 Acres to launch some rockets. We were there for about an hour, had some great launches. Then, a car pulls up to the field.....I only wish it was a soccer dad. This was a R/C flyer.

My daughter and I continue our launches, paying no attention to the silly man with his little styrofoam airplane.....until he starts playing with fire. I launch my Estes Bullpup 12D. I knew that was modeled after a Air to Ground missile, but it nearly turned into a Surface to Air Missile. He flew his R/C aircraft directly over the launch pad and I would say the Bullpup missed his plane by maybe 3 to 5 feet (was probably more like 20....but it looked closer from the ground). So as I am tracking my rocket, I can hear him start yelling obscenities from across the field (bear in mind that my 10 year old daughter is standing right next to me as this classy individual is launching a steady stream of F-bombs in my direction). As I am recovering my rocket, he has landed his plane and has ran up to me and is in my face yelling at me about how I shouldn't be launching rockets at his plane. I just looked at him straight in the face and said "Dude, I have been here launching for over an hour. Out of a 60 acre field, you just had to fly your airplane right where the people launching rockets are? Who is the idiot?"

So, my daughter and I were the bigger people and packed our gear and moved to another part of the field. Again the airplane started flying directly over head of us. I pulled out the big Mean Machine and lifted it off the pad on an E9. I think that scared him cause he quickly landed his plane and picked it up and left.

Maybe this guy is an example of why the FAA wants to regulate RC aircraft:

From Salon Ask the Pilot:

Latest From the Department of You Can't Make This Up ...

The Federal Aviation Administration wants to regulate the use of remote-controlled model airplanes. They call these toys -- get ready now -- "Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems," also known as "SUAS."

Naturally, if the FAA has hold of something, it requires some needless acronym. Perhaps, in this case, that makes the "threat" seem more real?

And so maybe you're a 40-something RC enthusiast, and that's fine. But let's face it, that's what these things are: toys.

Maybe the feds should regulate paper airplanes too?


Terry Dean

 

[o1d_dude]

Actually some of these RC "model" airplanes are as large as a Predator and use similar power plants.

I can understand why Homeland Security is nervous about these birds. In the wrong hands and used with bad intent...well you can see where that is heading.

 

[paul.nortness]

I hope guy the guy in the red truck is the exception rather than the rule, but if he's a groundskeeper and complains loud enough who knows what he could do. Especially if he's buddies with the guy that was hassleing Paul.

Luckily, he is not a grounds keeper. The field is owned and maintained by the Lake Washington Youth Soccer Association. They have professionals come to maintain the fields..not some craggy old coot. I've been there while the ground crews are out and they are mostly young guys. While we are on the topic of having rockets banned from 60 Acres...I find it highly unlikely that event would happen at least any time soon. While I did have a bad experience with a R/C guy yesterday, I also had a great experience with a few of the dreaded soccer folk (which I happen to be as well. 25 years as a player and coach as well as father of a current player). The league is gearing up for practices to start soon and getting the fields ready setting up goals, etc. While I was launching with my daughter, there was a lot of activity....guys on equipment carts driving around, dropping off garbage cans at locations, etc. A couple guys in an equipment cart pulled up and 30 feet from my launch site and just sat and watched for awhile and struck up a conversation. Cool guys.

If rockets do end up getting banned there, I fear it is because there are some rocketeers out there who are pretty messy. I am pretty embarrassed to say that some people out there don't think about the effects of leaving burned out engine casings and old ignitors and wadding and stuff on the field. When a soccer team comes out to their field and sees stuff like that, it only adds to their argument as to why we shouldn't be out there.

 

[Rocket86]

If rockets do end up getting banned there, I fear it is because there are some rocketeers out there who are pretty messy. I am pretty embarrassed to say that some people out there don't think about the effects of leaving burned out engine casings and old ignitors and wadding and stuff on the field. When a soccer team comes out to their field and sees stuff like that, it only adds to their argument as to why we shouldn't be out there.

My point exactly. We don't need to give anyone any reason to ban us.

 

[plano-doug]

In the wrong hands and used with bad intent...

But, Kit, you can say that for just about anything. They were saying that about rockets and motors (and still do). We have to avoid being too pragmatic and succumbing to the habit of seeing the scary sides of everything. Things we're not used to - things that are new - tend be more scary than equally dangerous things which we are used to. Hurtling across the ground at 130 feet per second with 120 pounds of highly flammable fuel on board sounds pretty scary until you realize that's just me driving to work with a full tank of gas. Then it's not so scary.

While we can all imagine the havoc one can wreak with a 10' wing span RC plane equipped with state-of-the-art electronics, we should also consider the destructive capability of automobiles as well as the infrastructure that supports them. Every corner gas station is a potential terrorist supply depot. And we're not about to outlaw them.

When we compare the Predator-sized RC planes to cars, they're not so scary anymore. That is, everything's a potential weapon, but we don't outlaw hoes despite the fact that Jackie Chan can use one to wipe out 20 opponents. In my mind, the worst thing about Predator-sized RC planes is that they're decadent

Doug

.

 

[tsai]

60 Acres is actually owned and operated by the youth soccer organization and they welcome what they call "light use activities" enthusiasts to come use their fields whenever organized soccer activities are not going on. We are truly blessed with the situation we have with the soccer folks here. The park is kind of interesting ...

Minor clarification on this, as I understand it. 60 Acres park is still a King County park. It is not owned by LWYSA (Lake Washington Youth Soccer Association). LWYSA entered into a 30 year lease agreement which allows them to make improvements and do maintenance on the property. Any improvements are still subject to approval from the county.

This lease also allows LWYSA right of first refusal for usage of the fields.

If the fields are not in use, they actually cannot deny usage of the fields to others as it is still a publicly owned county park.

That said, it's in everyone's best interest to work cooperatively. For example, when I launch there, I try my best to locate the launch pads and prep area in the space between where the soccer fields would be, so that any wear and tear I put on the field doesn't actually affect the playing surfaces. I find little things like this help appease the groundskeepers.

As others have said, picking up garbage is a no brainer. That should be true at all parks regardless of activity.

 

[PhlAsh]

Our club had an R/C guy, older man, call us murderers because one of our rockets landed, under chute, near him. The R/C group was on the opposite end of the field from us. We were apologetic, but he continued his tirade and said if it happened again he was going to do something about it. We launch on a Navy Base, we contacted the CO, explained the situation, he banned the R/C guys from flying on our launch days. Sometimes things work out!

My parents are active in the local MG club. Years ago (very early 80s) the club had a 'gymkhana' at Fentress. The r/c club was at their end of the field and the MGers were up where we usually park. One of the r/c guys, either by design or folly, ran his plane (on the ground) in front of a 56 MGTD and then had the audacity to yell at the driver. Most people behind the wheel of a vintage T look small, so I guess he thought he could bully our guy. Until he got out of the car and stood straight. At about 6'3" and 260lbs, our guy wasn't having any of it but even offered to pay for the plane - pulled out a wad of cash and everything. R/c guy stormed off fuming...

Probably the same guy.

 

[BEC]

Cross post from YORF in response to Terry's:

This effort has been ongoing for some time now and the AMA has been working very hard to get model airplanes (which, of course have to be defined) exempted from these upcoming rules. There was even a campaign a few months ago to make sure certain language was in the FAA authorization bill to see to this.

Much more detail about what's going on and how it's going here: https://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutama/more.aspx


And yes, even an L3 rocket or a twin turbine-powered RC airplane is a toy in the sense that it's something for recreational rather than business or defense use. The range of RC airplanes ranges from small ones that weigh less than an ounce and can be flown in a large living room to models that tens of pounds and are powered by real turbines.

Much of the recent growth in verbiage in the current AMA Safety Code (https://www.modelaircraft.org/files/105.pdf) is there to separate "model airplanes" which are always flown within visual range of the pilot in command and not autonomously from small UAVs which may well be based on model airplane hardware and be well within the performance and kinetic energy levels of a model airplane.

And as in rocketry there are folks who like to skirt the edges of the code.....

-------------------

I think tsai has it right on the status of 60 Acres Park. It's still a King County park - and the ONLY such in which flying model rockets is authorized. I've run that trap line.

The RC field at Marymoor park is under a somewhat similar arrangement with the Marymoor RC Club as caretaker/administrators.

 

[paul.nortness]

When we compare the Predator-sized RC planes to cars, they're not so scary anymore. That is, everything's a potential weapon, but we don't outlaw hoes despite the fact that Jackie Chan can use one to wipe out 20 opponents. In my mind, the worst thing about Predator-sized RC planes is that they're decadent

Given that the Predator has a wing span bigger than a F-15E...I would love to see this R/C plane.

 

[cjl]

Hurtling across the ground at 130 feet per second with 120 pounds of highly flammable fuel on board sounds pretty scary until you realize that's just me driving to work with a full tank of gas. Then it's not so scary.

I don't know...

Driving to work at 90mph sounds pretty terrifying to me.

:y:

 

[o1d_dude]

50' ft wing span pink foam RC plane, named "Big Floyd". The smaller version is named "Pink Floyd".

 

[dugliss]

I agree 100% with Paul and John about cleaning up after rocket launches. All spent engines, igniters, plugs and wadding. Just like when leaving a campsite, you make it look like you were never there. Unfortunately, you can't always find all the wadding sheets. At least it is bio degradable according to Estes. Perhaps using the Dogbarf as wadding wouldn't be as visible when people see it on the ground, but is Dogbarf bio degradable?

 

[Evo666]

Hey Paul, I had similar situation about a year ago at the park. There was a big rocket launching event that just gotten over when I arrived. The RC guys couldn't fly until the event was over. So when i got my equipment set up and started launching, someone decided to fly their plane very close to me. They started circling my area I am guessing to tell me to leave. This really bugged me on how close they were.

 

[Shade]

I don't know...

Driving to work at 90mph sounds pretty terrifying to me.

:y:

88.6 mph, I guess you engineers get to round off numbers. :wink:

Obviously you don't drive around Chicago or Dallas much...
80-85 mph is not uncommon in bumper to bumper traffic.

 

[PhlAsh]

I'll tell you what's bad - SWIM TEAM Moms. One of them was waking me up at 0dark-thirty this morning with some 'wake up and take your your kids to the pool' nonsense. It's not a launch day - I don't hafta get up! But this lady wasn't having any of it.

If she hadn't brought me coffee....

 

[luke strawwalker]

Perhaps using the Dogbarf as wadding wouldn't be as visible when people see it on the ground, but is Dogbarf bio degradable?

Yes and Yes...

I PREFER folks use dogbarf as wadding on the farm, but I don't get upset if they use "those Estes" (joke about Dos Equus commercial) wadding... I pick the stuff up while walking around the farm and reuse it myself. If I miss some, a rain or two will cause it to disintegrate back into the grass/dirt out here on the farm. The dogbarf, being 'chopped finer', breaks down that much quicker-- one rain and it's gone for all intents and purposes. Additionally, it's much more likely to 'settle down' into the grass to the soil surface than wadded up sheets of regular wadding are... making it break down that much faster and be that less visible.

The thing I had to remind the club guys about was spent ignitors... after one launch I picked up a prickly handful of spent ignitor wires, mostly Estes, but a few twisted pairs of "shooter wires" as well. That stuff is NOT GOOD for grazing animals like we here on the farm! I reminded the guys and they set up a five gallon bucket by the launcher to toss spent ignitors removed from the clips by the next flier into, so it keeps it up off the ground and out of the cattle's mouths and guts. The plugs I don't worry so much about; I pick those up myself and reuse them myself... they usually rain down within about a 4 foot circle of the pad...

If you're REALLY flying in a sensitive area and don't want to leave ANY residue behind, use leaf lettuce for wadding, use a paper ball and pen trick to hold the ignitor instead of the brightly colored plastic plugs, and have a bucket or coffee can for spent ignitor wire and casings...

later! OL JR

 

[AlfaBrewer]

have a bucket or coffee can for spent ignitor wire and casings...

That's a great idea. I'll have to start that at our next launch.

 

[Rocketman248]

Obviously you don't drive around Chicago or Dallas much...
80-85 mph is not uncommon in bumper to bumper traffic.

Or New Jersey. The first time I drove the Garden State Parkway, I was doing 75 and people were flying by me. :y: The posted speed limit is 55.

 

[o1d_dude]

Running a post-launch "skirmish line" across the pad area to police up spent igniters and such is standard operating procedure at our club site as cattle normally graze the field.

We also keep a trash bucket at each pad.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Actually some of these RC "model" airplanes are as large as a Predator and use similar power plants.

I bet they don't cost anywhere near the price of a Predator (15Mil) :smile:

 

[n5wd]

Many towns now have ordinances prohibiting swearing and obscenity in public.

Ahem... here in Texas, you'll find our Legislature has made the whole state a No-Cussin' in Public Zone:

Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:

(1) uses abusive, indecent, profane, or vulgar language in a public place, and the language by its very utterance tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace;

(2) makes an offensive gesture or display in a public place, and the gesture or display tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace;

It's only a Class C misdemeanor, but both the City of Fort Worth and Denton County (the two jurisdictions that provide School Cops to our high school) take it to the max if one of the kids gets a ticket for Disorderly Conduct while they're in school. That's a $500 fine.

 

[paul.nortness]

Yet another reason to never go to Texas

 

[gagreen]

Ahem... here in Texas, you'll find our Legislature has made the whole state a No-Cussin' in Public Zone:



It's only a Class C misdemeanor, but both the City of Fort Worth and Denton County (the two jurisdictions that provide School Cops to our high school) take it to the max if one of the kids gets a ticket for Disorderly Conduct while they're in school. That's a $500 fine.

Its a good lawyer away from a freedom of speech infringement. By whom's moral guidebook does the vulgarity and indecency of a word get judged? Can you not take the lords name in vain if your an atheist and it not be vulgar? what about the words whose dictionary meaning is proper but by using it in a different tone or slang means something vulgar. Its censorship and i would tell them exactly when where and how to shove that ticket.

 

[mperdue]

We fly at the AMA HQ in Muncie, Indiana. RC and rockets peacefully coexist there.

 

[MaxQ]

Our club had an R/C guy, older man, call us murderers because one of our rockets landed, under chute, near him. The R/C group was on the opposite end of the field from us. We were apologetic, but he continued his tirade and said if it happened again he was going to do something about it. We launch on a Navy Base, we contacted the CO, explained the situation, he banned the R/C guys from flying on our launch days. Sometimes things work out!

It landed under chute ...and he called you murderers?:eyepop:
Sounds like a real ego problem.

I've been in RC for a long time...rocketry also.
In all that time, I've met great people in both activities but I've never run into the kind of person with the inflated ego problem in rocketry that occassionally I've run into in RC activity.

Must be that they think we are irresponsible pyros or something...flinging these things into the air with no control... while they have all the skills of controlling the model that rocket people lack.

Irony is...in all those years the worst injuries I saw, including the one death that was "hobby related" was in RC.

Talk about murderer.....

 

[luke strawwalker]

Its a good lawyer away from a freedom of speech infringement. By whom's moral guidebook does the vulgarity and indecency of a word get judged? Can you not take the lords name in vain if your an atheist and it not be vulgar? what about the words whose dictionary meaning is proper but by using it in a different tone or slang means something vulgar. Its censorship and i would tell them exactly when where and how to shove that ticket.

Never let it be said that the Bushie-type neocons and his hand picked successor Governor Goodhair (that SOB Rick Perry) EVER let anything a silly as the Constitution get in their way...

If you ever see Adolf Hitler Jr. and Rick Perry on the same ticket-- VOTE FOR HITLER JR!!! You'll be safer that way!

Our state gov't needs a good enema... but at least the state isn't COMPLETELY bankrupt like say Commiefornia...

Later! OL JR

 

[plano-doug]

Running a post-launch "skirmish line" across the pad area to police up spent igniters and such is standard operating procedure at our club site as cattle normally graze the field.

I do that at every outing. I never made eagle scout, but, if I got nothing else out of scouting, learning to always leave the place better than I found it is worth the couple of years I put in.

Plus, if you do that around your prep area before you drive off, you lose less stuff

Doug

.

 

[plano-doug]

Obviously you don't drive around Chicago or Dallas much...
80-85 mph is not uncommon in bumper to bumper traffic.

And 90 when you're making the pass on the right 'cause some numbnuts doesn't get the protocol concept of making the pass (on the left) and then gettin' over to let the faster cars go by (on the left).

More seriously, 80-90mph ain't that fast anymore. Especially after having traveled in Europe where 160kph is pretty common.

Today's good roads and excellent cars make fast travel much safer. The high performance tires and braking systems make a huge difference in avoiding accidents. But we need to start developing better drivers. The left lane is for passing, not texting.

Doug

..

 

[JPVegh]

Ahem... here in Texas, you'll find our Legislature has made the whole state a No-Cussin' in Public Zone:



It's only a Class C misdemeanor, but both the City of Fort Worth and Denton County (the two jurisdictions that provide School Cops to our high school) take it to the max if one of the kids gets a ticket for Disorderly Conduct while they're in school. That's a $500 fine.

That was five licks when I was in school and not five licks of a lolly pop!