Firework model rockets

[CoolRockets]

What’s up fellow humans, last week before the Fourth of July, I thought about taking out the explodey part of a firework rocket (or a missile for firework nerds) and convert it to a model rocket. Last year
I found the remains of one of mine, brought it to the work bench, and analyzed the engine. It is the same as an Estes a8-3. Anyway if anyone has ever done this then please comment to this thread! Have a good one!

 

[Steve Shannon]

What’s up fellow humans, last week before the Fourth of July, I thought about taking out the explodey part of a firework rocket (or a missile for firework nerds) and convert it to a model rocket. Last year
I found the remains of one of mine, brought it to the work bench, and analyzed the engine. It is the same as an Estes a8-3. Anyway if anyone has ever done this then please comment to this thread! Have a good one!

It wouldn’t be permitted at NAR or Tripoli events. We do everything we can to differentiate model rockets from fireworks. The whole concept of certified motors is intended to reduce the kinds of accidents that occur when people start doing surgery on black powder fireworks. Why would we reverse that?

 

[NateB]

I wouldn't recommend taking the header ("explodey part") off of a firework rocket unless you really knew what it was made with and know how to take the appropriate precautions to keep your head and hands in tact. Depending on the construction of the device, some of the common compositions used are friction sensitive.

Firework rocket motors may be BP, whistle or some combination of both or other colored compositions. They also are made in core burner or end burner, nozzled or nozzleless designs. It is a fun hobby and can be done safely, however one should be properly mentored before embarking on these experiments. Look for PGI and regional pyrotechnic guilds for help first .

 

[DabCat]

You can buy just the cardboard and plastic pieces for the firework rockets in kit form from a few firework chemical suppliers.

 

[CoolRockets]

It wouldn’t be permitted at NAR or Tripoli events. We do everything we can to differentiate model rockets from fireworks. The whole concept of certified motors is intended to reduce the kinds of accidents that occur when people start doing surgery on black powder fireworks. Why would we reverse that?

I mean flying them on like my own time

 

[cls]

I mean flying them on like my own time

Ok great, we'll all watch for your story in the newspaper:

Local Guy Blows Up (hand, dorm, self, neighborhood) with MODEL ROCKETS!!!

Thanks, we don't want that kind of help.

 

[tsmith1315]

I thought about taking out the explodey part of a firework rocket (or a missile for firework nerds) and convert it to a model rocket

This would be a firework without report, not a model rocket.

 

[CoolRockets]

Stage of events: buy fireworks, take out charge and motor, add motor mount, recovery system, launch lugs and all the rest, add nose weight if necessary, launch with REGULAR ENGINE AND RECOVERY WADDING AND OFF A LAUNCH ROD WITH A LAUNCH PAD WITH IGNITERS AND LAUNCH CONTROLLER

 

[lakeroadster]

Stage of events: buy fireworks, take out charge and motor, add motor mount, recovery system, launch lugs and all the rest, add nose weight if necessary, launch with REGULAR ENGINE AND RECOVERY WADDING AND OFF A LAUNCH ROD WITH A LAUNCH PAD WITH IGNITERS AND LAUNCH CONTROLLER

And you have just spent money buying fireworks, and then thrown everything away, except the overly bulky containment tube.

You do you, but I can't fathom the logic in your adventure.

 

[CoolRockets]

And you have just spent money buying fireworks, and then thrown everything away, except the overly bulky containment tube.

You do you, but I can't fathom the logic in your adventure.

I haven’t bought them yet, I’m still sourcing a dealer that has them for cheap

 

[lakeroadster]

I haven’t bought them yet, I’m still sourcing a dealer that has them for cheap

Sometimes I get the feeling you are "Punking" us.

 

[NateB]

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/3d-printed-congreve-rocket.175600/

 

[CoolRockets]

Sometimes I get the feeling you are "Punking" us.

I swear I’m just sharing ideas, that’s why I say at the end of every thread I say “if anyone’s done this”

 

[prfesser]

As someone who has flown model rockets since 1965, high-power rockets since 1992, made propellant and designed motors since 1995 or so, actually written a few words about it here and there, made fireworks since 1998, done small fireworks shows for over 25 years......

Don't. Just don't.

You might be able to remove the report. Please be aware that many report formulas are quite a bit more sensitive than the stuff most pyrotechnicians make. If you're right-handed, consider using your left hand (in welding glove) for the work, for.......reasons.......

Now you need a proper-length delay. That isn't going to be too easy. And a proper, just-the-right-strength ejection charge.

Calculate the actual amount of money AND time that you put into your attempts. Be honest in those calculations. Is it truly worth it? How much are you saving to fly, maybe, half-a-dozen rockets? Even a dozen? How much danger did you put yourself into?

If you want to play with fireworks, play with fireworks (safety first!). If you want to fly model/high-power rockets, do so but with commercial items, at least at first. If you want to make fireworks, do so...with a mentor who is highly experienced. YouTube is not the best mentor... If you want to make rocket motors...same thing, a great mentor.

Your fingers are very useful. Try to keep them.

 

[StreuB1]

Above all else.........why?

 

[bad_idea]

Stage of events: buy fireworks, take out charge and motor, add motor mount, recovery system, launch lugs and all the rest, add nose weight if necessary, launch with REGULAR ENGINE AND RECOVERY WADDING AND OFF A LAUNCH ROD WITH A LAUNCH PAD WITH IGNITERS AND LAUNCH CONTROLLER

Fireworks surgery isn't safe. Just launch the thing and find the parts later. Or as @DabCat says, buy the non-explody parts and start from there.

The firework type known as a "finned missile" is very similar to a basic model rocket. It has a plastic nose cone, a cardboard body tube, and a plastic fin can. The differences are that the motor is built into the body tube, the tube is a good bit thicker than we would use for a model rocket, the nose cone typically slips over the tube, the motor is lighted by a fuse, the rocket is designed for stable flight after ground launch without a rod (with giant weathercocking fins to match), and of course there is a bursting charge instead of a parachute.

Once when cleaning up after shooting fireworks on a friend's land, I recovered all of the parts of an expended finned missile intact. It turned out to be about the right size to empty out and embed a 13mm or 18mm motor mount. I drilled out the original motor nozzle and cleaned it up a bit inside the tube. Someday I'll finish the conversion - complete with a launch lug and a shock cord - and fly it. Seems a waste to have a perfectly good cone, body, and fin-can and not actually use them for something.

It's probably something I'll just launch privately though. Even though it will be a normal model rocket at that point, there's no point punching people's hot buttons at a launch. If I were to fly it at a public launch, I'd likely paint the body tube to make it look more normal and maybe clip back the fins since it won't need nearly such large fins if launched off a rod.

 

[CoolRockets]

As someone who has flown model rockets since 1965, high-power rockets since 1992, made propellant and designed motors since 1995 or so, actually written a few words about it here and there, made fireworks since 1998, done small fireworks shows for over 25 years......

Don't. Just don't.

You might be able to remove the report. Please be aware that many report formulas are quite a bit more sensitive than the stuff most pyrotechnicians make. If you're right-handed, consider using your left hand (in welding glove) for the work, for.......reasons.......

Now you need a proper-length delay. That isn't going to be too easy. And a proper, just-the-right-strength ejection charge.

Calculate the actual amount of money AND time that you put into your attempts. Be honest in those calculations. Is it truly worth it? How much are you saving to fly, maybe, half-a-dozen rockets? Even a dozen? How much danger did you put yourself into?

If you want to play with fireworks, play with fireworks (safety first!). If you want to fly model/high-power rockets, do so but with commercial items, at least at first. If you want to make fireworks, do so...with a mentor who is highly experienced. YouTube is not the best mentor... If you want to make rocket motors...same thing, a great mentor.

Your fingers are very useful. Try to keep them.

Thanks! If you’ve worked in fireworks, than I should probably take it from you that firework model rockets using actual fireworks is a pretty bad idea.

 

[CoolRockets]

New schematic. Just a normal model rocket

 

[cwbullet]

I am pretty sure this thread is full of safety code violations.

 

[CoolRockets]

I am pretty sure this thread is full of safety code violations.

Oops

 

[bad_idea]

I am pretty sure this thread is full of safety code violations.

From post 8 on, he's talking about flying a conventional model rocket, albeit one for which acquiring parts might remove some fingers or eyes. The rocketry safety codes don't address construction safety. Now if you're talking about fire codes, municipal codes, etc., disassembling fireworks is likely contrary to many of those. If one wants a model rocket made of firework parts, better to fly them as fireworks someplace where that is legal then reconstruct them later.

 

[lakeroadster]

From post 8 on, he's talking about flying a conventional model rocket, albeit one for which acquiring parts might remove some fingers or eyes. The rocketry safety codes don't address construction safety. Now if you're talking about fire codes, municipal codes, etc., disassembling fireworks is likely contrary to many of those. If one wants a model rocket made of firework parts, better to fly them as fireworks someplace where that is legal then reconstruct them later.

Sounds like a cesspool... and lawyers just love a good cesspool.

 

[techrat]

Wouldn't it just be cheaper to buy an Alpha III, fill it with black powder, glue the nose cone on, and when the ejection charge fires, ka-blam?

 

[MALBAR 70]

I really never understood the need to make model rockets that look like fireworks. There are plenty of model rocket kits and plenty of fireworks. One can fly and enjoy both separately and safely.

 

[gldknght]

And you have just spent money buying fireworks, and then thrown everything away, except the overly bulky containment tube.

You do you, but I can't fathom the logic in your adventure.

Me neither.

To the OP: Why not just build a MODEL ROCKET (which, by the way, you can fly many, many times, if properly constructed and cared for). You can get a 3-pack of ready made A8-3 engines for less than the cost of the firework you are messing with.
Why take the chance on separating a finger or damaging someone else's property for no apparent reason?

Not to mention making the rest of us look bad when you do something stupid?

 

[bjphoenix]

We do everything we can to differentiate model rockets from fireworks.

My local club has a small monthly launch on some land owned by a local parks department. We have permits from the city to do this. About once a year the police will show up to check us out, apparently someone driving by thinks we are doing fireworks and they call the police. We have to explain to the police that these aren't fireworks, show our permits, etc. They understand and leave, or maybe watch a few minutes.

If a person buys a firework rocket, removes the pyrotechnics, puts in an Estes motor and launches it... how would they convince a police officer that they were not doing fireworks?

I agree, we should continue to provide a good separation between fireworks and model rockets.

 

[Ez2cDave]

I am pretty sure this thread is full of safety code violations.

Ejection Charge testing . . . "If you can't blow it out, blow it up !"

LOL !

 

[Daddyisabar]

I remember as a kid the neighbor got a bunch of fireworks rockets. I had just built the old style Apha, DRM and V2. The fireworks rockets really sucked compared to my model rocket master pieces. Model rocketry superiority and arrogance was instilled and I have always looked down on the Class C fireworks 3-4FNC abominations. Still do not like them to this day. For fireworks Give me a stick and motor! Give me a mortar! For model rocketry, give me decent parts.

Oh no! Here comes that group with the toilet paper and hot glue scratch builds! RUN!

 

[Tom Flint]

One 4th of July many years ago I set off one of those fireworks that looks like a rocket with 4 plastic fins and a plastic nose cone that fit over the tube. The next morning I found the spent body and nose cone on the ground so I removed the spent motor from the tube, added a motor block, launch lug, shock cord, and streamer, and flew it several times on A and B motors. It worked fine but was a very ugly model rocket.

 

[NateB]

Class C fireworks 3-4FNC abominations. Still do not like them to this day.

Most of the consumer "Missles" are underpowered and don't always stabilize themselves. Others that do fly stable, still lack enough power lift a header that is any larger than a festival ball. They fly a little better if you fashion a rod for guidance or rig a way to light them inside a mortar which would act like a launch tower. Stick rockets are stable (over stable) by nature and are a better choice for firework sized devices.

Limits on the amount of compositions that can be used for consumer fireworks are to blame. However, anyone who has seen and dodged my neighbor's fireworks, I'd rather they not have large rockets.

Professional stick rockets do exist and are a lot of fun to launch in flights. They are bigger than what you buy a store. However, they are very rarely used in the U.S. They make a mess and you need to be extremely careful how they are set up to keep the sticks falling where you want them instead of in your audience.

The best firework rockets are homemade and dispalyed at PGI and similar club events. Most builders make stick rockets in various sizes. Some will lift display shells larger and more complicated than you typically see in a firework show. They are truly a sight. One builder makes very large finned rockets with 2" and 3" BP motors. I have not been able to see one in person, but I would love to.