Copperhead or Firstfire

[Horaryelrod100]

I'm about to re-enter the mid-power'd world, and have all the goods, but was just on the Aerotech website, and noted they recommend Firstfire ignitors. I have 3 new packs of Copperheads, and just curious if they will be reliable, or should I invest more $ for the Firstfire.

This could have been posted under "Propulsion", so my apologies if this is the wrong area.....but the question is simple enough, and falls under both categories. I'm after reliability and safety above all; your opinions count.

 

[JAL3]

I think most people consider the copperheads, aka crapperheads, to be a pita. I have usually used them successfully but they are more delicate and more troublesome. Their big virtue is their slimness which makes them easier to slip into itty bitty spaces.

I've had a few failures with copperheads but I've had a few with Estes igniters as well. If you are careful with the foil and make sure there is no shorting along the edges they should do you just fine.

 

[jpummil]

First Fire FTW!!!

Quest also has Q2G2's in 8" lengths

 

[o1d_dude]

First fire lighters are worth the extra cost.

 

[sodmeister]

First fire Jrs for E,F,Gs

Copper heads are a pain, but if you ditch that silly PITA yellow clip and either take a match/lighter and heat up the copperhead and separate the two flat copper leads and hook up like regular igniters or take tape and put one piece on one side and another on the opposire side ,about a 1/2" away and put your clips to one contacts one side of the copper and one side of the tape and do the other with the other clip and they work much better.

Having a good 12 volt ignition source is a must (car battery/deep cycle is better)

Quest Igniters are best or the First Fire JRs

Paul t

 

[jpummil]

Wildman also sells some that Tim calls Big 'Uns and Little 'Uns that I like! The wire is stiffer, but 100% so far....

 

[o1d_dude]

Wildman also sells some that Tim calls Big 'Uns and Little 'Uns that I like! The wire is stiffer, but 100% so far....

On the Wildman site, look for them under the title "Lighters", then "Wildman Brand", then click on "Lighters" and you will find them.

 

[Horaryelrod100]

Thanks for the info gents, knew I could get easy answers here. With all the opinions leaning toward ditching the Coppers, (unless I choose to test out Pauls theory.....which I most likely will until I get some updated ignitors), I have a couple more questions I could use basic clarification on;

1) Are the Q2G2 ignitors made for the composite F-G motors, and if so, as I understand it, I should cut off the yellow clip from my AT controller, expose fresh bare wire, and solder/crimp new 'gator clips in place. Is that right? And, if this is true, which size/guage clips should I use?

2) If I read the response correctly, If I want to use the Coppers with the yellow clip, one of the options is to heat up the attatching end on the ignitor until it seperates into 2 pieces?? Then use either the clip as is, or, again remove the clip and replace with new 'gator clips.

My apologies for seeming numb about this, it's just apprehension about having everything right the first time. It'd be a b#$% to spend so much effort in building, loading up, driving god knows how far, set up, and excitement only to be let down due to incorrect wiring/leads/ignitors.

Thanks again for the assistance and support

 

[qquake2k]

With one of the clubs I fly with, I've had great results with Copperheads. They have a relay launch system with the batteries at the pads, so there's plenty of current. At my other club, not so good. They have an older launch system that doesn't have the batteries at the pad. Not as much current. A 12 volt system is required; but in my opinion it has to provide a lot of current too, for Copperheads to be reliable.

Until I started making my own igniters, I used the Copperheads because that's what most of the reloads came with. I've used the yellow clip, homemade clips, masking tape, heating the end with a lighter. But my favorite method is using a piece of cardstock. The headers from the motor reload packages are good for this. Just poke a hole in the cardstock, and use it as an insulator. The photos should make it self explanatory.

 

[qquake2k]

1) Are the Q2G2 ignitors made for the composite F-G motors, and if so, as I understand it, I should cut off the yellow clip from my AT controller, expose fresh bare wire, and solder/crimp new 'gator clips in place. Is that right? And, if this is true, which size/guage clips should I use?

2) If I read the response correctly, If I want to use the Coppers with the yellow clip, one of the options is to heat up the attatching end on the ignitor until it seperates into 2 pieces?? Then use either the clip as is, or, again remove the clip and replace with new 'gator clips.

My apologies for seeming numb about this, it's just apprehension about having everything right the first time. It'd be a b#$% to spend so much effort in building, loading up, driving god knows how far, set up, and excitement only to be let down due to incorrect wiring/leads/ignitors.

Thanks again for the assistance and support

1) I've used Q2G2 igniters successfully with 24mm E reloads. But I've heard that with bigger reloads, they're "iffy", because there's not much pyrogen on the heads.

2) No, the yellow Interlock clip is used with the igniter as is. You only need to heat up and separate the end if you're using standard clips.

No need to apologize, that's what we're here for. this forum is a fount of knowledge. If you don't ask the questions, we can't answer them! I have learned so much from this forum, it's incredible. The photos below illustrate the various methods of using a Copperhead: Interlock clip, tape, and the lighter.

 

[shreadvector]

If attaching micro clips or the horrible, copperhead-shorting "toothed alligator clips" using tape or card stock as an insulator on one side, be sure that the side of the clip with the wire soldered to it is in contact with the copper of the igniter. The non-soldered side will get less current because it must pass through the dirty hinge between the clip halves.

 

[rdunn12]

1) I've used Q2G2 igniters successfully with 24mm E reloads. But I've heard that with bigger reloads, they're "iffy", because there's not much pyrogen on the heads.

2) No, the yellow Interlock clip is used with the igniter as is. You only need to heat up and separate the end if you're using standard clips.

No need to apologize, that's what we're here for. this forum is a fount of knowledge. If you don't ask the questions, we can't answer them! I have learned so much from this forum, it's incredible. The photos below illustrate the various methods of using a Copperhead: Interlock clip, tape, and the lighter.

The last option works best for me

 

[qquake2k]

If attaching micro clips or the horrible, copperhead-shorting "toothed alligator clips" using tape or card stock as an insulator on one side, be sure that the side of the clip with the wire soldered to it is in contact with the copper of the igniter. The non-soldered side will get less current because it must pass through the dirty hinge between the clip halves.

That's a good point, I never thought of that.

 

[sodmeister]

1) I've used Q2G2 igniters successfully with 24mm E reloads. But I've heard that with bigger reloads, they're "iffy", because there's not much pyrogen on the heads.

2) No, the yellow Interlock clip is used with the igniter as is. You only need to heat up and separate the end if you're using standard clips.

No need to apologize, that's what we're here for. this forum is a fount of knowledge. If you don't ask the questions, we can't answer them! I have learned so much from this forum, it's incredible. The photos below illustrate the various methods of using a Copperhead: Interlock clip, tape, and the lighter.

Yesir ,that`s what i was talking about ,but pictures make it easier to understand.

Thanks for posting these shots.

Thses techniques work very well (close to 100% for me),but since stocking up on Quest inniters and making my own ,Copperheads are going the way of the dinosaur

Paul T

 

[cwbullet]

Here are 3 similar methods:

 

[qquake2k]

Yesir ,that`s what i was talking about ,but pictures make it easier to understand.

Thanks for posting these shots.

Thses techniques work very well (close to 100% for me),but since stocking up on Quest inniters and making my own ,Copperheads are going the way of the dinosaur

Paul T

I started making my own igniters last year. Since then I haven't used any Copperheads, but I still think they're good igniters. Like I said, I had good success with them. The main reason I started making igniters, is because my one club's equipment has trouble supplying enough current sometimes.

 

[sodmeister]

The tape version is what I`ve used for some years most often.The lighter way works in a pinch also,


Paul t

 

[cwbullet]

Tape is what I use if I don't just toss them in the trash (after a controlled burn).

 

[dpower]

On the Wildman site, look for them under the title "Lighters", then "Wildman Brand", then click on "Lighters" and you will find them.

These are good igniters, and Tim stands by their performance, but I wouldn't recommend them for slotted AT SU. They'll often not fit the slots. Gotta use copperheads or FFJr for these. Even some copperheads in the motor pack have too much pyrogen to fit into these slots, so its good to have a few extras.

 

[qquake2k]

These are good igniters, and Tim stands by their performance, but I wouldn't recommend them for slotted AT SU. They'll often not fit the slots. Gotta use copperheads or FFJr for these. Even some copperheads in the motor pack have too much pyrogen to fit into these slots, so its good to have a few extras.

I've had problems with SU motors and smaller reloads. I ended up making some igniters with very narrow heads.

 

[shreadvector]

Tape is what I use if I don't just toss them in the trash (after a controlled burn).

Even if I find a Copperhead that is shorted (rare), i simply decapitate it and insert the pyrogen tip in the motor propellent slot and then put a Q2G2 under it. The extra pyrogen gets the motor going and all the bits can easily spit out of even tiny nozzle throats without clogging.

 

[cwbullet]

I ahev used littleuns with a slotted motor and the rocket took the igniter with it. I will not do that again.

 

[dpower]

I'm about to re-enter the mid-power'd world, and have all the goods, but was just on the Aerotech website, and noted they recommend Firstfire ignitors. I have 3 new packs of Copperheads, and just curious if they will be reliable, or should I invest more $ for the Firstfire.

This could have been posted under "Propulsion", so my apologies if this is the wrong area.....but the question is simple enough, and falls under both categories. I'm after reliability and safety above all; your opinions count.

In the past, I've generally had good success with CH, but have switched almost entirely to FFjr. Reason? Simply that it takes more time, and patience, to use a CH successfully. Launches are short, and I'm willing to pay for the ease of use of a FFjr.

 

[sodmeister]

In the past, I've generally had good success with CH, but have switched almost entirely to FFjr. Reason? Simply that it takes more time, and patience, to use a CH successfully. Launches are short, and I'm willing to pay for the ease of use of a FFjr.

Amen brother ! Life and launches are too short as it is !

How much you guys in the US paying for a 3 pack of FF jrs ?



Paul T

 

[Wayco]

Amen brother ! Life and launches are too short as it is !

How much you guys in the US paying for a 3 pack of FF jrs ?



Paul T

Best price I have found is $7.79 at Hobbylinc:
https://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/aro/aro89895.htm

I had a problem with them fitting into Aerotech SU F20's, had to use the copperheads. Since I've started using the yellow clip, no problems getting them to light. Hobbylinc also carries them:
https://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/aro/aro89341.htm

I prefer the FF jr's, but they don't fit in some of the smaller SU and reloads, so copperheads are a necessary evil sometimes.

 

[sodmeister]

Best price I have found is $7.79 at Hobbylinc:
https://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/aro/aro89895.htm

I had a problem with them fitting into Aerotech SU F20's, had to use the copperheads. Since I've started using the yellow clip, no problems getting them to light. Hobbylinc also carries them:
https://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/aro/aro89341.htm

I prefer the FF jr's, but they don't fit in some of the smaller SU and reloads, so copperheads are a necessary evil sometimes.

Up here in Canada ,the price varies from $ 10.50 -$ 13.00

Too much cash ,but they work well ,and yes ,they don`t really fit the Es all the time.


Cheers

Paul T

 

[Stymye]

I started making my own a while back , I make about 60 at a time ,,it's real easy , just takes a little time.
I will still take any copperheads that no body wants off there hands.

the middle pic is a single dip vs a double dip

 

[Rocketjunkie]

I started making my own a while back , I make about 60 at a time ,,it's real easy , just takes a little time.

Bridge wire or conductive pyrogen?

 

[Stymye]

nichrome bridgewire

 

[sodmeister]

nichrome bridgewire

Andy ,I`m going to have to PM you about that later on !

Cheers


paul t