Kids flying mid power at high power launches...Model Rocket Launch Area...but!?

[Steve Shannon]

The last time I flew a G motor, the ignitor leads came out only maybe 8 or 10 inches beyond the motor nozzle. So yeah. My face was pretty close.

I edited my previous comment after you posted yours, Steve

The rules allow 12 year old or older in TMP and 14 years or older NAR Jr. L1 to fly rockets (either models or HPR) from the high power pads.
That only leaves those younger than allowed in the junior programs unable to be at the high power pads. For those I sincerely hope that the clubs you fly with make accommodations if they need to fly off a rail.

 

[GrouchoDuke]

The rules allow 12 year old or older in TMP and 14 years or older NAR Jr. L1 to fly rockets (either models or HPR) from the high power pads.
That only leaves those younger than allowed in the junior programs unable to be at the high power pads. For those I sincerely hope that the clubs you fly with make accommodations if they need to fly off a rail.

I plan to start asking when there isn't one...and I'll be ready to help set it up. My son is planning a G80 flight in his Formula 38 later this month - should be fun.

 

[gldknght]

The rules allow 12 year old or older in TMP and 14 years or older NAR Jr. L1 to fly rockets (either models or HPR) from the high power pads.
That only leaves those younger than allowed in the junior programs unable to be at the high power pads. For those I sincerely hope that the clubs you fly with make accommodations if they need to fly off a rail.

I'm guessing that covers probably 90% of kids flying mid power rocket.

 

[dhbarr]

Same as everyone else, there's usually a TARC rail and I can always bring a Jawstand.

 

[smstachwick]

I’m going flying with DART a little later. We get TARC teams out regularly and the odd AeroTech kit, thus we have rails available. The field only supports G motors and smaller. Our Quartermaster was kind enough to secure a mini rail when I brought a converted Der Red Max that required one. I don’t know how much use that gets, but it’s nice to have a bit of inventory.

ROC usually has a small number of rails close to the closest (“low power”) racks that support motors up to and including Type F. I think fliers using them will hook up to the leads supplied for the the very last pad on the rack.

I haven’t flown with TRASD recently enough to know what they do, nor have I ever been to a Holtville Havoc event. I imagine John Pacente has something up his sleeve though.

VSWR, of course, is a TARC-focused section and I believe they were flying from rails exclusively when I was out there the one time. F67s screaming off the pad all morning is fun

 

[rharshberger]

I won’t go into details, but the worst insurance incident in Tripoli history was due to a person being on the range where they shouldn’t have been when a rocket motor ignited. Since then we have had rules that are very specific for range access. With the release of the TUSC we tried to make the language simpler, but we didn’t intentionally change the meaning of the rules, with one exception. We specifically put in a rule (6-6) that authorizes launch directors to allow uninsured children to launch model rockets.

As far as children accessing the HPR pads, I still occasionally see pictures where a little boy or girl is standing fascinated with their faces and eyes right at blast deflector height while their parent is connecting igniter leads. It happens less frequently than it used to, but it sends chills down my spine every time.

Personally, I would like to see every club make available some special low level pads with rails available for the model rocket range. I’d much rather have spectators see their children’s rockets fly from 50 feet than the 100 foot minimum for HPR.

Thats how we set up our range Steve, 50ft LPR pads, then 100' MPR pads, then whatever we need beyond that. When we have Tripoli launches the setups remain the same, but kids still have access to the LPR pads, the exception comes in with the newer Qjet and the older AT composites, impulse levels of C or higher go to mid-power (not that it gives much more reaction time if something goes wonky but....a little is better than none). We are a family focused club that has HPR and Research interests, not just a focus toward HPR, kind of a generalist club.

 

[Handeman]

We are a Tripoli prefecture and geared primarily to HPR. We don't do MPR pads at our club. It's either LPR or HPR. With the growth of TARC and the number of teams that come out to test fly and use 1010 rails, we changed our LPR set up years ago. Everything is set up 50 ft. out. We have recently been doing 2 1/8th inch rods, 2 3/16th inch rods, 1 1/4 inch rod and 3 1010 rails. These pads are also as far from the HPR pads as the flight line is so people setting up on the low power are at safe distances so we can fly HPR while they are setting up. If there is a wait for LPR pads, it's usually a TARC team waiting on a 1010 rail.

The kids always fly off the LPR pads unless they are TMP or Jr.L1 and doing a HPR flight, then their mentor goes with them.

We did set a limit on the number of college students allowed at the HPR pads for their SLI/IREC flights. A max of 5. No more teams of 20+ students out hanging around the pad pre-flight.

 

[jqavins]

(My second time today responding to a thread I haven't read though yet. This one I think I will, but later. Please pardon me if I bring up things already covered.)

I almost always bring a JawStand with a 1010 rail & adapter to launches. I've had zero pushback at any launch when I ask to put up my own rail or tower. It does, however, create some extra "which pad on my launch controller do I select for your launch pad" burden for the LCO. There's some added safety risk that the club is buying by allowing an outside launch pad to be used. It's also more work for the flier and adds cost to their rocketry gear pile. Still, having your own dedicated pad is really nice.

That seems like a perfectly good solution, and I'm not at all surprised at the absence of push-back. regarding the risk of using outside equipment, do ask the LD and RSO to inspect your equipment before and after you set it up.

Since many clubs have a sawhorse with rods setup for their Model Rocket Launch Area ("low power pads!"), I feel really bad about asking for a club rail there since it seems like I'd be asking for something special just for my kids. Any club LCOs/RSOs/Launch Directors care to chime in on your thoughts if someone asked for a rail on the Model Rocket area?

I've never been the LCO or RSO, but I've taken shifts as LCO (pad assigner, announcer, button pusher) for an hour at a time and as assistant RSO when there's need, so I feel at least semi-qualified to answer.

First, actually putting a mid-power rail on the saw horses with the low power rods is not OK, because the stand off distances for mid power are greater; it needs to be a separate area.

On the other points, don't feel bad about it. If your club considers it a nuisance to make reasonable accommodations for all flyers, then find another club. I mean, what kind of...?

Are any clubs putting rails in the Model Rocket Launch Area?

We have a mini rail that we put up as needed in the LP area, and we have both heavy rods and 1010 rails in the mid power area. The mid power area is only a little further away than the LP area, and if someone needs the mini rail over there then we move it. No problem, no complaint. A minor inconvenience at most, and totally worth it to give everyone what they need.

If you bring your own rail to put in the Model Rocket Launch Area (for example, if the club doesn't have enough to put one there), then do you share it with everyone?

Of course! What kind of...? Actually, I don't have to bring my own, but should I ever, then of course I'd share.

If so, do you just get the word out through the LCO?

LCO and RSO, since the RSO is the first person a flyer interacts with when preparing to go out to a pad.

If you don't share it, do you get any grumbles from anyone for that?

I would expect courteous, respectful flyers to grumble inwardly. And I would be one of them, even when it's someone else who needs such a pad. (I mean really, what kind of...?)

Since this mid-power corner is maybe an edge case, is it worth pre-coordinating with the LCO to arrange a rail in the Model Rocket Launch Area?

If the club does not have a mid power area, and you're bringing your own mid power pad, it needs to be set up a little further away. And by all means, you need to tell the RSO and LCO that you intend to do so.

Do any clubs have a separate mid-power area that falls under the Model Rocket Launch Area, but has a mix of big rods and rails?

As stated above.

 

[smstachwick]

First, actually putting a mid-power rail on the saw horses with the low power rods is not OK, because the stand off distances for mid power are greater; it needs to be a separate area.

This in particular depends on the club’s setup. At DART, all the pads are arranged in a semicircle large enough to be 15 ft from each other and at least that minimum from other people. Anyone hooking up is the minimum from the next pad over. If we need 30 ft for an E-G motor, we simply make sure that the pads immediately adjacent are clear of people, and such rockets fly off the ones directly in front of (farthest from) the LCO table. We also have rails further back for the same power range, also separated far enough to allow simultaneous loading.

ROC simply locates their low-power pads far enough to allow up to G motors. I recall one occasion where I was walking down the flight line and I got startled out of my wits by the noise of a CTI G107 going from that rack.

TRASD also had a considerable distance to their LPR rack the last time I flew out there. 1/2A-F motors that day.

 

[bad_idea]

If someone brings their own pad, it's a bonus if they share, but it's certainly not anything I'd expect, nor would I feel offended if it wasn't shared. That goes doubly or more for towers - which many flyers clean and prep between every flight - but it's not unreasonable to be protective of even a regular pad one has spent one's own money on and one's own labor transporting and standing up.

Still, I doubt any club ever turned down a volunteered pad or failed to be super happy with whoever has volunteered it, and I'm sure any club would be happy to prioritize the pad-owner and their guests if a pad was shared.

From the first organized launch I attended, I've learned a lot from helping with high power flights. I'm not exactly sure the official rule before last year's changes regarding pad access, but no Tripoli field I flew at had any problem with my being at the high power pads as an adult L0 Tripoli member.

Since the new rules were defined, I am permanently range personnel at one Tripoli field where I fly and have regularly been range personnel at another, but the ambiguity of that status and the possibility of flying at other fields and not being able to help at the pads is leading me to attempt certs sooner than I had planned. It's not that I think I'm not capable of building and flying an L1 rocket, it's just taking things out of order on my list of milestones. Not a big deal in the end. Rules change, approaches have to evolve.

(Some of my rocketry friends who've been twisting my arm to cert already for a couple of years are probably secretly delighted with this consequnce. )

Funnily enough, I learned yesterday that the rule to which I alluded in this post which was emplaced in May, 2022 and which led me to work on my certs out of order of my planned milestones was rewritten in May, 2023, by which time I had already started on my certs. Now the rule is that any adult insured flyers can access the HP pads, whereas last year's rule was only certified flyers could. Glad that was fixed, and I guess I'm glad I didn't know it was fixed and went ahead and certed.

 

[GrouchoDuke]

If someone brings their own pad, it's a bonus if they share, but it's certainly not anything I'd expect, nor would I feel offended if it wasn't shared. That goes doubly or more for towers - which many flyers clean and prep between every flight - but it's not unreasonable to be protective of even a regular pad one has spent one's own money on and one's own labor transporting and standing up.

Still, I doubt any club ever turned down a volunteered pad or failed to be super happy with whoever has volunteered it, and I'm sure any club would be happy to prioritize the pad-owner and their guests if a pad was shared.

Thanks everyone for the comments. After thinking back a bit and attending a few recent launches, it feels like the default is that people don't assume they can use a non-club pad/tower for their rockets. For example, I talked with a couple people at NSL who were looking to borrow a tower & they were very respectful of other people's stuff. People were very happy to get the thumbs up to use others' pads/towers. Good deal.

Speaking of NSL, my kids designed & built mid-power rockets for NSL (E motors was the plan). Since we didn't know exactly what would be available, they used guides for rods on their rockets. There weren't many rods in the size they used (3/16"), but the team there was awesome at making it work. Fun times had by all!

 

[jqavins]

Thanks everyone for the comments. After thinking back a bit and attending a few recent launches, it feels like the default is that people don't assume they can use a non-club pad/tower for their rockets. For example, I talked with a couple people at NSL who were looking to borrow a tower & they were very respectful of other people's stuff. People were very happy to get the thumbs up to use others' pads/towers. Good deal.

Speaking of NSL, my kids designed & built mid-power rockets for NSL (E motors was the plan). Since we didn't know exactly what would be available, they used guides for rods on their rockets. There weren't many rods in the size they used (3/16"), but the team there was awesome at making it work. Fun times had by all!

That sounds like typical rocketeer behavior. Ask respectfully, and almost always get a yes of some sort, from "Sure, go ahead" to "Yeah, just give me a minute to head out with you." Or "Hang on, I think I've got a 3/16" rod in my truck." Everyone there is there to see everyone there have a good time.

 

[86mustang408w]

The club im going to is a mixture of that. I love it, its gives you a chance to mentor a child or two and they get to watch the big guys. Its nore experience than they will ever gain. But if your talking L3's then A's, I might be a little upset. But from A to G or H/I its cool to me. I first started this about 8 years old with a Nova Payloader I bought at Super Saturday, a class they had a few different choices to pick from on a gew Saturday weekends. But model rocketry was one, and now I'm doing my first L1 build but 30 yeats later, had I had access to these launches as a kid I'd be so much further by now. Instead of messing around with LPR and MPR(which i love), I should be building better more in depth rockets or an L2/L3. But thats just what I'm doing now, a little in depth custom build. My thought is my first L1 will be memorable bc of all the little things im doing to it, over buying a kit everyone uses. It's giving me a little do everyday. So I'm for it, thats my opinion though..

Little layout of my baby H build. "ALPHA H".

 

[cerving]

I haven’t flown with TRASD recently enough to know what they do, nor have I ever been to a Holtville Havoc event. I imagine John Pacente has something up his sleeve though.

TRASD usually sets up a separate LPR/TARC launch site, maybe 500' away from the HPR LCO table. If somebody wants to fly LPR off the 100' HPR pads they are welcome to with proper supervision, of course, but there is a special area that's set aside just for them.

Segregating the LPR and HPR areas does make the launches flow better... but of course there has to be somebody willing to run the LPR side.

 

[Ez2cDave]

I won’t go into details, but the worst insurance incident in Tripoli history was due to a person being on the range where they shouldn’t have been when a rocket motor ignited. Since then we have had rules that are very specific for range access. With the release of the TUSC we tried to make the language simpler, but we didn’t intentionally change the meaning of the rules, with one exception. We specifically put in a rule (6-6) that authorizes launch directors to allow uninsured children to launch model rockets.

Was this the 2018 BALLS incident ?

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/incident-at-balls.148085

 

[W4DXR]

Hey all. My kids are at a little corner of rocketry where I think it'd be easy to mess up the rules regarding who can go to which launch area. This potential gotcha also applies to any adult, non-certified flier who flies mid-power. I know I've seen this messed up. I've probably messed this up. There are photos of it happening that many of us have seen. So, how about some discussion/thoughts/etc on this? I'm not trying to throw spears - just hoping for some brainstorming, sharing some best practices, and maybe through this a few more people will help catch errors at launches.

I have twins. They started building their own rockets at age 4. They're now 11. They can lay a mean set of Proline 4500 fillets and are pretty dang good at building fiberglass rockets. They like designing their own rockets and my son recently told me that he wants to beat all my records. They don't much like flying low power motors anymore, so they lean toward mid power. No problem, right? Well...

As fliers under age 12, they only have access to the Model Rocket Launch Area per the Tripoli Unified Safety Code. Their rockets, however, typically have rail buttons on them. At most of the launches I've been to, there aren't rails in the Model Rocket Launch Area - only rods. Thinking about it, the Model Rocket Launch Area is typically referred to as the "low power pads" or a similar variation. It seems that maybe we think of two main categories of rocketeers at launches: kids who fly low power and adults who fly a mix of everything.

Kids under 12 are clearly not allowed in the High Power Launch Area. (Older kids that fall under the TMP or NAR Junior L1 can go to the High Power Launch Area when supervised.) Adults who are not yet certified HPR fliers can't go to the High Power Launch Area either.

For an adult non-certed example, suppose someone has built a rocket for their L1 but wants to do a test flight on a G80 first. Rail buttons, high power-capable rocket...head out to the high power pads with the rails that fit your buttons, right? No!! I think that'd be super easy to mess up on both the flier expectation side of things and the LCO/RSO/Launch Director side. I know clubs' launch teams are knowledgable & know the rules, but it's still easy to brain fart this, I think.

So. Techniques.

• I almost always bring a JawStand with a 1010 rail & adapter to launches. I've had zero pushback at any launch when I ask to put up my own rail or tower. It does, however, create some extra "which pad on my launch controller do I select for your launch pad" burden for the LCO. There's some added safety risk that the club is buying by allowing an outside launch pad to be used. It's also more work for the flier and adds cost to their rocketry gear pile. Still, having your own dedicated pad is really nice.
• Since many clubs have a sawhorse with rods setup for their Model Rocket Launch Area ("low power pads!"), I feel really bad about asking for a club rail there since it seems like I'd be asking for something special just for my kids. Any club LCOs/RSOs/Launch Directors care to chime in on your thoughts if someone asked for a rail on the Model Rocket area?

Brainstorms/thoughts.

• Are any clubs putting rails in the Model Rocket Launch Area?
• If you bring your own rail to put in the Model Rocket Launch Area (for example, if the club doesn't have enough to put one there), then do you share it with everyone? If so, do you just get the word out through the LCO? If you don't share it, do you get any grumbles from anyone for that?
• Since this mid-power corner is maybe an edge case, is it worth pre-coordinating with the LCO to arrange a rail in the Model Rocket Launch Area?
• Do any clubs have a separate mid-power area that falls under the Model Rocket Launch Area, but has a mix of big rods and rails?

I'd love to hear what people do to stay in line with the safety rules. Maybe there are some ideas others could share that I haven't thought of...? (Other than just "don't mess it up" please.)


Pix of my then-6 year old daughter laying her first set of epoxy fillets on a fiberglass rocket, just for fun:

View attachment 578572
View attachment 578573

Awesome!

 

[JimByrne]

Awesome!

We (the Kingman Rocketeers) are a small NAR club. We adapt to the needs of all flyers of any age.
Because we are small that makes it easy to adapt. Maybe you should look for a smaller group that has the time and space to fit your kids in. Talk to the RSO & LSO and maybe they can accommodate your needs.

 

[terryg]

I bring a minirail and a microrail pad to every launch. Our club requires rails for anything F and above. I just place them at the end of regular pads. (launching from pad 6 and 1/2 half is...). We have standard 10/10 pads at the midpower distance also.

 

[GrouchoDuke]

It's great to hear about other clubs & young fliers, thanks.

On a side note, my kids have definitely been learning through the rocket designing/building/flying they've done. They just got back from Space Camp and their comments were kinda funny. My daughter sent me a text message while they were building rockets at camp, "Dad, they DO NOT know how to build rockets here!" She then went on to critique their launch lug placement, glue selection and fin alignment techniques.

My son keeps asking about building his Junior L1 rocket. He's itching to turn 12 for that.

 

[loopy]

I've never been to a launch that didn't have all levels of rockets launching, but I know every club is different. I would think that if you talk to the club officers, they'd be willing to work with you to find a way to make it more inclusive of your children somehow.

 

[Antares JS]

On a side note, my kids have definitely been learning through the rocket designing/building/flying they've done. They just got back from Space Camp and their comments were kinda funny. My daughter sent me a text message while they were building rockets at camp, "Dad, they DO NOT know how to build rockets here!" She then went on to critique their launch lug placement, glue selection and fin alignment techniques.

As someone who worked at Space Camp, your daughter sounds like a very sensible, intelligent girl.

 

[GrouchoDuke]

As someone who worked at Space Camp, your daughter sounds like a very sensible, intelligent girl.

She is pretty awesome.

 

[jackiboi_11]

Tampa Bay Rocketry Association has a 6' 10-10 rail on the LP pads. It is the furthest to the right, #8. It gets used frequently. I use it myself. MP and away are all rails.

Thinking of flying there sometime. In the orlando area where the club with the biggest field doesn't recommend flying on G motors if I remember right. I'm thinking of getting my Junior L1 at Tampa Bay.

 

[John Taylor]

Hey all. My kids are at a little corner of rocketry where I think it'd be easy to mess up the rules regarding who can go to which launch area. This potential gotcha also applies to any adult, non-certified flier who flies mid-power. I know I've seen this messed up. I've probably messed this up. There are photos of it happening that many of us have seen. So, how about some discussion/thoughts/etc on this? I'm not trying to throw spears - just hoping for some brainstorming, sharing some best practices, and maybe through this a few more people will help catch errors at launches.

I have twins. They started building their own rockets at age 4. They're now 11. They can lay a mean set of Proline 4500 fillets and are pretty dang good at building fiberglass rockets. They like designing their own rockets and my son recently told me that he wants to beat all my records. They don't much like flying low power motors anymore, so they lean toward mid power. No problem, right? Well...

As fliers under age 12, they only have access to the Model Rocket Launch Area per the Tripoli Unified Safety Code. Their rockets, however, typically have rail buttons on them. At most of the launches I've been to, there aren't rails in the Model Rocket Launch Area - only rods. Thinking about it, the Model Rocket Launch Area is typically referred to as the "low power pads" or a similar variation. It seems that maybe we think of two main categories of rocketeers at launches: kids who fly low power and adults who fly a mix of everything.

Kids under 12 are clearly not allowed in the High Power Launch Area. (Older kids that fall under the TMP or NAR Junior L1 can go to the High Power Launch Area when supervised.) Adults who are not yet certified HPR fliers can't go to the High Power Launch Area either.

For an adult non-certed example, suppose someone has built a rocket for their L1 but wants to do a test flight on a G80 first. Rail buttons, high power-capable rocket...head out to the high power pads with the rails that fit your buttons, right? No!! I think that'd be super easy to mess up on both the flier expectation side of things and the LCO/RSO/Launch Director side. I know clubs' launch teams are knowledgable & know the rules, but it's still easy to brain fart this, I think.

So. Techniques.

• I almost always bring a JawStand with a 1010 rail & adapter to launches. I've had zero pushback at any launch when I ask to put up my own rail or tower. It does, however, create some extra "which pad on my launch controller do I select for your launch pad" burden for the LCO. There's some added safety risk that the club is buying by allowing an outside launch pad to be used. It's also more work for the flier and adds cost to their rocketry gear pile. Still, having your own dedicated pad is really nice.
• Since many clubs have a sawhorse with rods setup for their Model Rocket Launch Area ("low power pads!"), I feel really bad about asking for a club rail there since it seems like I'd be asking for something special just for my kids. Any club LCOs/RSOs/Launch Directors care to chime in on your thoughts if someone asked for a rail on the Model Rocket area?

Brainstorms/thoughts.

• Are any clubs putting rails in the Model Rocket Launch Area?
• If you bring your own rail to put in the Model Rocket Launch Area (for example, if the club doesn't have enough to put one there), then do you share it with everyone? If so, do you just get the word out through the LCO? If you don't share it, do you get any grumbles from anyone for that?
• Since this mid-power corner is maybe an edge case, is it worth pre-coordinating with the LCO to arrange a rail in the Model Rocket Launch Area?
• Do any clubs have a separate mid-power area that falls under the Model Rocket Launch Area, but has a mix of big rods and rails?

I'd love to hear what people do to stay in line with the safety rules. Maybe there are some ideas others could share that I haven't thought of...? (Other than just "don't mess it up" please.)


Pix of my then-6 year old daughter laying her first set of epoxy fillets on a fiberglass rocket, just for fun:

View attachment 578572
View attachment 578573

My understanding is anyone 18 or older who is also a TRA member can go to the hp pads as long as the certified flier is with them. To assist loading the rocket on the rail, or help carry the rocket out to the pad. The certified flyer has to turn on electronics, and install the igniter.
That is the way it's done at the Tripoli clubs I attend.
Sombody please correct me if needed.
Thank you.

 

[John Taylor]

I agree that's a VERY VERY bad thing, but really, what's the difference if that happens at a high power pad with an F powered rocket or at a midpower pad with an F powered rocket?

What my comment was saying, a child should be allowed access to fly off a rail at a high power pad (if no other rail option is available), but only in order to fly his or her own rocket and only under direct supervision. I agree children should never be allowed at any pad as spectators. And probably should not be allowed at mid or high power pads even as helpers.

My son is 15 and hooks up his own ignitors no matter what size motor he's using. So of course his face is going to be right where the ignitor leads are. Is there another way to hook up those leads? For real, no sarcasm intended, if there is another way, please let me know. I don't really like having my own face in that position...

Fabricate a two wire extention about
6-8 ' with clips on both ends.
First attach the extension to the rocket igniter, step back to the extention leads length. Then attach the pad leads to the other end of the extention. This will create a safe area when attaching the leads to the extention line. No more faces by the motor when attaching the pad leads to the extention instead of putting your face by the motor nozzle.

 

[John Taylor]

NAR doesn’t have the same rules, but my main NAR club has low power pads for A-E motors. That’s set up for rods, with various sizes of rods, and it’s close to the flight line. Then there’s the midpower pads for F and G motors. That’s a bit further out, and has a mix of bigger rods and somewhat short 1010 rails. Then the main high power areas for H-K rockets under a certain weight limit. Those are the sturdy HPR pads with 1010 rails of 6-8 feet length. That’s out an appropriate distance for K motors. Then there’s the one massive away pad for L and M flights or any very large rockets or flights deemed risky enough to be sent out there. That one has the 10-foot or more 1010/1515 rail on it. That’s a pretty good site setup, with something for everyone.

I also fly with a Tripoli club that is more like what you describe. They are high-power focused, for sure. They have two banks of high-power pads, and those are out at 300’ or 500’, all with 8-10 foot 1010 and 1515 rails, and then more and bigger pads even further out. The low-power pads are kind of an afterthought and are set up pretty close in. I’ve flown F motors off of rods at those pads. When I’ve checked in a G motor at the RSO, I’ve been sent out to the high-power pads. So that’s not ideal. First, if the person with a G motor isn’t certified, that would be a rule violation (I’m certified). Also, it’s just not that fun to watch a G motor flight from 300’ away. Now I seldom bring anything that’s not high-power to that club’s launches.

I think the thing to do would be to raise the issue with your club leadership and ask if you can have some pads with rails set up for a mid-power area. Something for F and G flights off of pads with 1010 rails that is not in the HPR area so non-certified people can use them. If there’s an issue with lack of rails or pads to devote to it, you could volunteer to bring a pad, and I think it would help if you offered to allow anyone to use it.

Most consider low power to be up to D impulse, medium power E, F, and G motors, and of course H and above is hp.
We never allow those under 18 to go to the hp pads unless they are under a Jr. apprentice flier under mentorship. If the person is at least 18 and a TRA member they may assist a certified flier with carring and loading the rocket on the hp pads.

 

[bad_idea]

My understanding is anyone 18 or older who is also a TRA member can go to the hp pads as long as the certified flier is with them.

There was a one year period - from when Unified Safety Code 1.0 was issued in May of '22 through when version 1.2 was issued in May of '23 - when the Tripoli rules stated only certified flyers and designated range personnel could visit the high power pads. With version 1.2, the rules reverted to allowing adult insured fliers to visit the HP pads with no mention of certification.

(It was the May, 2022 rule that led me to work on L1 out of my planned order of rocketry milestones, since I learn a lot by helping other fliers and wanted to continue to help with high power flights. By the time I actually certed, the rule had been changed back, though I didn't realize that until a month later.)

 

[jackiboi_11]

(My second time today responding to a thread I haven't read though yet. This one I think I will, but later. Please pardon me if I bring up things already covered.)

That seems like a perfectly good solution, and I'm not at all surprised at the absence of push-back. regarding the risk of using outside equipment, do ask the LD and RSO to inspect your equipment before and after you set it up.


I've never been the LCO or RSO, but I've taken shifts as LCO (pad assigner, announcer, button pusher) for an hour at a time and as assistant RSO when there's need, so I feel at least semi-qualified to answer.

First, actually putting a mid-power rail on the saw horses with the low power rods is not OK, because the stand off distances for mid power are greater; it needs to be a separate area.

On the other points, don't feel bad about it. If your club considers it a nuisance to make reasonable accommodations for all flyers, then find another club. I mean, what kind of...?


We have a mini rail that we put up as needed in the LP area, and we have both heavy rods and 1010 rails in the mid power area. The mid power area is only a little further away than the LP area, and if someone needs the mini rail over there then we move it. No problem, no complaint. A minor inconvenience at most, and totally worth it to give everyone what they need.


Of course! What kind of...? Actually, I don't have to bring my own, but should I ever, then of course I'd share.


LCO and RSO, since the RSO is the first person a flyer interacts with when preparing to go out to a pad.


I would expect courteous, respectful flyers to grumble inwardly. And I would be one of them, even when it's someone else who needs such a pad. (I mean really, what kind of...?)


If the club does not have a mid power area, and you're bringing your own mid power pad, it needs to be set up a little further away. And by all means, you need to tell the RSO and LCO that you intend to do so.


As stated above