I too have a cheat sheet taped to the top of my BP motor boxes. I will have to look and see if it includes the E16 & F15 since I made it a couple years ago and do have a few of each in the MPR box.
Estes ignitors are a PITA
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I've done a similar thing and I think it helps. I keep my Estes igniters in an old Altoids tin and long ago I had spilled some BP in there. That's almost all used up now.
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Here's my post from 3 years ago about dipping Estes igniters in ProCast:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/thanks-to-i-forget-igniters-hacked.155524/post-1936662
Here's the crappy clear Estes igniter with one dip in ProCast. I now do this for all the versions of Estes igniters I have.
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/thanks-to-i-forget-igniters-hacked.155524/post-1936662
Here's the crappy clear Estes igniter with one dip in ProCast. I now do this for all the versions of Estes igniters I have.
I also use a "cheat sheet" on my container of igniters and plug also with a list of engine types and the corresponding color-coded sizes of plug.
I like your explanation about Tester's Silver having more what I label "pizazz" from the aluminum burning, that better explains "why" it works better than nitrocellulose fingernail polish(which works, but not a great amount better). Since I'm a fan of the "Dip it in black powder" method, I'll have to give that a try with the Tester's Silver.
Thanks -PTH
At our club launch today we had an Estes A engine that took 5 tries to get it to launch. After the first couple of tries with unknown versions of Estes igniters, a club member did some reaming inside the nozzle in case there was some nozzle material in the way. Then an Estes igniter with pyrogen was tried, then an igniter that had been dipped in commercial material was tried. Then I put in a bit of black powder leftover from an Aerotech reload kit, put in one of the latest semi-pyrogen Estes igniters, put in a small wad of recovery wadding to hold the igniter and BP against the fuel grain, then put in the yellow plug. That time the engine ignited.
well, that almost sets a new record.
hard to believe that it did not ignite, especially with the dipped igniters
Wow.....how healthy is the launch battery your club was using, and how dirty/rusty were the clips? I can't imagine needing to go past the "clean out inside the nozzle" attempt unless there was something systemically wrong.
Sometimes I think the 7am dew takes away some of the amperage. The igniters seem to work better when the sun has had a chance to warm up the grass.
Well, no battery likes to work when its cold….but then, you don’t have cold there, really, do you?
Any interest in a dip formula that you can make at home?
Nail polish (containing nitrocellulose) and bp?
No but in the winter, we get a bit of dew on the grass. Dew point on the bottom, temp on the top.Well, no battery likes to work when its cold….but then, you don’t have cold there, really, do you?
Humidity on top.
Surf is more of an issue here in the winter... and volcano smog (vog) when it happens...
Let me tell you that 76F water temp is really cold.
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This is what I use, but I have an idea that might be better.
This post is the first part of my low power igniter test. It will set up the next part to show what might work better as s dip for model 2302 igniters.
I can’t wait to do part 2.
I can’t wait to do part 2.
Re-awaken thread.....
Being a bit lazy, I don't do a ProCast dip on the older black Estes igniters, as they always seem to work for me. But I always dip the white tip "cornstarch" ones. Last Saturday, I used (or tried to use...) one of the newer grey Estes igniters that I hadn't dipped. Supposed to have a pyrogen that works, right? Well, I got a misfire. The bridge wire did ignite just the tip of the pyrogen, but that was it. I would have assumed that once lit, it would all burn.
So.. Looks like I'll dig out all the newer grey igniters that I have and start dipping them.
Hans.
Being a bit lazy, I don't do a ProCast dip on the older black Estes igniters, as they always seem to work for me. But I always dip the white tip "cornstarch" ones. Last Saturday, I used (or tried to use...) one of the newer grey Estes igniters that I hadn't dipped. Supposed to have a pyrogen that works, right? Well, I got a misfire. The bridge wire did ignite just the tip of the pyrogen, but that was it. I would have assumed that once lit, it would all burn.
So.. Looks like I'll dig out all the newer grey igniters that I have and start dipping them.
Hans.
dpower
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I've found the 2303 StarTech work well with sufficient current, though not as good as Solar Igniters. What kind of controller are you using? With an Electron beam, even with fresh AA batteries, they need the button to be held longer than Solars. The Solar Igniters were designed specifically for the Solar Controller, the first Estes AA controller introduced in 1972. I vote for a new Electron beam that uses 5 or 6 AA batteries.
For me, StarTech light instantly and hot with my 12v relay sytem, and nearly as good with the 7.2v NiMH Command Control. Even 4 D batteries in my Electro-Launch get a good flame on StarTech, but with 4 AA batteries, it takes longer to get a flame. I haven't tried the new PSII controller with them.
This was at a club launch with their 12V system. Fired my composite motors just fine. I wish I kept the failed Startech. Top 1/16" burnt, with the nichrome exposed. But the rest of the pyrogen didn't burn.
Now, where's my little bottle of ProCast......
Hans.
dpower
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Just for kicks, I tested 6 of the StarTech starters with my 7.2v Command Control. 5 had nice flames and burned fully. One burned the bridge wire where it attached to the thick wire, and lost continuity very quickly, without igniting the coating. This one had a little less coating than the others, and there was very little coating where it burned through. Since this coating takes longer to produce a flame than Solars, maybe the poorly coated ones are more likely to fail.
Maybe that's why the most recent 3-packs of 18mm motors now include 4 StarTech starters? The 2-packs of D motors and 4-packs of 13mm motors don't have extras, though. Don't know about new E12/E16/F15 packs, mine are old enough to have either 2301 or 2302.
In the old days we just used a piece of nichrome, I wonder if that is more reliable overall than current starters. I also did a number of 2-motor and 3-motor clusters back then with 100% reliability. Of course I had best luck using a 12V car battery. I would guess that Estes starters are intended for use with portable launch controllers with smaller batteries. I wonder if dipped nichrome would be even better.
In the old days, I would pull the fuse out of a firecracker, bend the tip, and insert into the motor. Light and run. [very dangerous} This was an improvement over my Katyusha bottle rocket method. [very dangerous} Of course in the old days, my models would meet their untimely demise with my BB gun so things have improved.
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For estes or any black powder based motors like CTI, the firewire work well. https://electricmatch.com/rocketry/see/36/6/mjg-firewire-initiater
There's a mini version for the smaller motors https://electricmatch.com/rocketry/see/23/6/bp-rocket-starters
There's a mini version for the smaller motors https://electricmatch.com/rocketry/see/23/6/bp-rocket-starters
Sooner Boomer
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Do you just tape the mini version across the nozzle?
Buzzard
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I use the MJG Technology BP starters for 18mm clusters. I use poster putty to hold the starter in the nozzle, then tape over the entire assembly. Recently flew my four C motor ACE Mini-Allegro model, built in 1980. After using a spare starter to get a continuity check to verify the system remained safe for these starters, I put in a perfect flight.
Chas
Chas
dpower
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Same here, using loc-tite brand putty (at the local HW store had). Works for 7 motors in a Hydra VII.
Before my my most recent launch, I dipped a whole bunch of Estes igniters in red nail polish. No misfires, unlike the previous month's launch.
Then I thought, what would happen if I put a drop of nail polish into the engine nozzle. Wouldn't that have the same effect as nail polish on the igniter?
Then I thought, what would happen if I put a drop of nail polish into the engine nozzle. Wouldn't that have the same effect as nail polish on the igniter?
When I restarted in rocketry in 2015, I became aware of Q2G2 igniters so I ordered some. And then you couldn't get them because they come from China, the laws were changed, they were copyright protected, etc. Who knew that was going to happen. THERE ARE NO Q2G2 IGNITERS TO BE HAD, ANYWHERE. I had just scratch built an Estes Ranger (a clustered Big Bertha). So I used up my Q2G2 igniters in short order. icould hook up Ranger on one pair of leads. Not so with the ESTES igniters. They take more voltage or amperes, whatever - to work. NOW - I have to get permission from the LCO to use as many pads as I have motors in my clustered rockets, so I have one pair of leads per motor. I have to NOTE on the launch card that it is a clustered rocket and I am using multiple pads. It is disappointing watching your rocket launch when only one motor is ignited! AND - - -This does not sit well on busy launch days with some of the other flyers, so I don't do it often. Until lately. I built a "Deuces Wild" (2 motor cluster). I use one other "extra" pad to fly my rocket.
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I have not . Thanks fo,r the link. I was checking it out and I think I will give them a try, soon
Carlos = c0c0m0ke.
Carlos = c0c0m0ke.
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