Bleeding Inkjet Decal Frustration

[neil_w]

This is driving me nuts.

I printed a new batch of inkjet decals, and clear-coated the heck out of them. I went to try out a test decal, printed black on white paper, and...

...again, I am experiencing bleeding at the edges. It seems evident that the water gets in at the cut edge, under the clear-coat, and runs the ink there. This is extraordinarily frustrating. I am trying to figure out a solution. Note this mainly applies to decals printed on white film; on clear film a bit of loss at the edges will be less noticeable. But when printing a decal to be applied to a black background, bleeding like the above is disastrous.

The only thing I can think of, and will try out, is to cut the decal with some extra border, soak it, and then trim it to size right before applying. I don't know if this will solve it, but at least the water (maybe) won't get to the "active" part of the decal. I don't look forward to trimming the decals while soft and wet.

How do others deal with this?

 

[David Schwantz]

Do what you just did but a tad oversize and cut to size after clearcoat has dried.

 

[neil_w]

Do what you just did but a tad oversize and cut to size after clearcoat has dried.

That’s exactly what that is.

 

[stantonjtroy]

I find that if after I cut it out from the sheet, but before it goes into the water, I run around the edge (side edge on) w/ a black sharpie and let the ink set for about 5 minutes or so, it seems to fix the problem. To clarify, I'm using HP inks in a HP Desk Jet printer on Micro-Mark White Inkjet decal paper. Clear coat is Krylon Crystal Clear (2-3 light coats) w/ a 12+ hour cure on the clear (straight application, no microsol). My only beef has been the white paper from Micro-Mark is a tad translucent. Do others have the same opacity issue w/ other brands? I guess the alternative is pop for an expensive printer and "Ghost White" toner.

 

[Joshua F Thomas]

Try different paper? Andy over at ASP Rocketry has/had an inkjet paper supply that is solid, but I'm not sure what the brand is. I tried some no-name decal paper from Amazon, and it was *terrible*.

 

[stantonjtroy]

On the whole I've had great success with the Micro-Mark paper, Clear & White. Literally several dozen rockets worth of decals (I do a lot of cloning, up-scales and scratch builds). I just wish the white was a little more opaque. I did a mini Bomarc clone and a 3" Mercury capsule and a couple of others using the method described here. On my first go around, Mini Bomarc I think, I experienced the same problem Neil has had. I assumed it was the thickness of the white film showing through so I started edging with the sharpie. It wasn't until later I realized it was edge bleed. Still the sharpie edge mark worked and, for me at least, has continued to. I suspect there are many parameters that can effect it; Paper type/brand, Ink type(archival/regular) and brand, Printer, Print quality settings, clear coat.... the list goes on. I got lucky and hit on, what has been for me, a reliable combination of variables early on.

 

[neil_w]

I’ve used two different papers so far with identical results.

The Sharpie idea is interesting, surprised it would work but I’ll give it a try. Only good for black-edged decals though (or any color where I can approximately match the edge color with one of my large collection of colored Sharpies.

Next week I’ll do some more testing and report back.

 

[Jay Rairigh]

What are you using to trim the edges of the decal with? It should be super sharp, such as a new exacto blade, or you might damage/lift the edge of the clear coat from the edge of the decal. Especially if you put clear coat on pretty thick.

 

[neil_w]

Normally I use a good pair of scissors. The cuts certainly look clean to me. I will add this to my list of things to experiment with.

 

[Charles_McG]

I don't have this issue because I use a color laserjet.

But could you try the same 'paint the edge' trick with a liquid/puddled clearcoat or clear nail polish?

 

[neil_w]

But could you try the same 'paint the edge' trick with a liquid/puddled clearcoat or clear nail polish?

Yes, I could run a Qtip with Future around the edge, which is worth trying. Downside when I’ve tried something similar is that the decal edges get sealed to the backing paper, and it requires an extra bit of effort to break them free. Can be managed but I don’t like the feeling, especially on larger decals.

 

[jqavins]

This is an interesting read, as making my own decals is something I might do in the near or nearish future. All I can add is this one thing:

If you're thinking of trying a different cutter to reduce the chance of tiny tears, this might be a good time to try the curved X-Acto blade method I've mentioned before. Avoidance of tearing is exactly why I like using ciured blades.

 

[scsager]

Never had this issue -
Print on clear paper (meaning there is no "white" on the decal)
Leave a quarter inch clear border when you cut out the decal.

 

[neil_w]

Never had this issue -
Print on clear paper (meaning there is no "white" on the decal)
Leave a quarter inch clear border when you cut out the decal.

Yes, this problem is more of a white-decal-paper thing, because you don’t have the option of leaving a clear border.

 

[neil_w]

I did another test today. On the first decal (on top in the picture below), I rubbed the top and right edges with a black Sharpie, and did the left and bottom edges with a Future-dipped Q-tip.

For the second decal (on bottom in the picture below), I initially cut it a bit oversized, soaked until the deal loosened up (these are taking a full minute for whatever reason), and then trimmed it to size.

Here are the resultss:

Neither the Sharpie nor the Future prevented some ink from bleeding around the edges. It's possible I didn't apply either correctly, but I'm not sure what else I could have done. The trimmed-to-size-after-soaking decal did better, but you can still see the edges reflecting the light. From straight on it looks solid black, but you will not always see it from straight on.

I am not at all satisfied with either of these. Most likely, I'll be switching to laser decals for the ones on black background, other than the ones for which I really need the rich color that you get with inkjet.

This is really frustrating.

 

[kuririn]

Use a Sharpie of the appropriate color to cover the white edge.
That is, after application and drying.
Not perfect, better than nothing, passes the 5 ft. test.

 

[stantonjtroy]

I did another test today. On the first decal (on top in the picture below), I rubbed the top and right edges with a black Sharpie, and did the left and bottom edges with a Future-dipped Q-tip.

For the second decal (on bottom in the picture below), I initially cut it a bit oversized, soaked until the deal loosened up (these are taking a full minute for whatever reason), and then trimmed it to size.

Here are the resultss:
View attachment 430260
Neither the Sharpie nor the Future prevented some ink from bleeding around the edges. It's possible I didn't apply either correctly, but I'm not sure what else I could have done. The trimmed-to-size-after-soaking decal did better, but you can still see the edges reflecting the light. From straight on it looks solid black, but you will not always see it from straight on.

I am not at all satisfied with either of these. Most likely, I'll be switching to laser decals for the ones on black background, other than the ones for which I really need the rich color that you get with inkjet.

This is really frustrating.

That's a stumper for sure.

 

[Jay Rairigh]

Hmmm...I'm still wondering about the cut edge neil. Can you do an edge real slowly and carefully (after clear coat/before wetting it) with a new exacto knife and see what you get?

 

[neil_w]

Hmmm...I'm still wondering about the cut edge neil. Can you do an edge real slowly and carefully (after clear coat/before wetting it) with a new exacto knife and see what you get?

Ah, I forgot about that. I have one more test decal, I'll try that next.

 

[Charles_McG]

Neil, if you are considering laser printing, I have found that the white pigment on water slide paper shatters very easily without an overcoat. I use papillio for clear background and it’s tough as nails. No overcoat needed. But the white I have just crumbles without help.

 

[neil_w]

Neil, if you are considering laser printing, I have found that the white pigment on water slide paper shatters very easily without an overcoat. I use papillio for clear background and it’s tough as nails. No overcoat needed. But the white I have just crumbles without help.

Interesting. I have used white-backed laser decals once so far (on Blackfish), and they behaved the same as any other decals I've used. They did get two or three coats of Future, though, for protection and to gloss them up. At what point in the process did they crumble on you, during application or afterwards?

For the next print I might actually clear-coat them for gloss purposes.

 

[Charles_McG]

Interesting. I have used white-backed laser decals once so far (on Blackfish), and they behaved the same as any other decals I've used. They did get two or three coats of Future, though, for protection and to gloss them up. At what point in the process did they crumble on you, during application or afterwards?

For the next print I might actually clear-coat them for gloss purposes.

When cutting prior to application. With no overcoat at all. I use Testors Glosscote, iirc. The edges shatter and fall off the backing and it progresses from there.

 

[neil_w]

Sounds like bad decal paper. I've never seen that.

 

[Charles_McG]

Sounds like bad decal paper. I've never seen that.

Experts-Choice from Bare Metal. I don't recall how I found it.

 

[neil_w]

I've used that stuff with no problem as well. Maybe you just got a bad batch or something?

 

[Charles_McG]

I've used that stuff with no problem as well. Maybe you just got a bad batch or something?

Well, It's a lot more fragile than the papillio. That stuff is -tough-. But I haven't found it in white.

 

[kuririn]

Was it specifically for laser printing Charles? Inkjet decal paper will not stand up to the heat of laser printers.
And Neil, I just recently started using laser home printed decals. I overcoated them with a matte clear and it blends in really well with the sheen of the basecoat. Haven't tried acrylic floor polish yet though.

 

[jqavins]

Use a Sharpie of the appropriate color to cover the white edge.
That is, after application and drying.
Not perfect, better than nothing, passes the 5 ft. test.

I've been reading this for educational value, for when I one day start making my own decals. All the same, sharpie applied this way gives me pause, because I tried something similar once, and it did not go well.

A red band decal that came with a kit was a little short, leaving a gap where it was supposed to cover. I filled in the gap with a marker. I gave the marker ink plenty of time to dry; it was over at least one night. When I sprayed a clear coat over the rocket, it's solvent made the marker ink run quite significantly. It would pass at best a cursory five foot test, or a ten foot test, but not a careful five foot.

If sharpie on a decal like this is something you guys have done before then there is no room for doubt that you know more about it than I. But if this is a new notion, I urge you to test it with whatever will be going over it, be that spray clear coat, Future, or whatever.

 

[neil_w]

Yes, Sharpie can definitely run under the influence of solvents. Care is required. I normally do my final Sharpie touch-ups (e.g., edges of black-painted body tubes) after everything else is done, including clear-coat. If the Sharpie ever rubs off it's easy enough to re-apply.

I'm starting to wonder if a different clear coat might have different results. I'm using Krylon UV-resistant clear, my all-purpose clear coat spray. However, some instructions for inkjet decals talk about using some sort of fixative spray. It seems as if the Krylon clear-coat creates a good waterproof *coating* (hence the name), but the water-soluble ink is still there underneath it, vulnerable to water incursion from the edges. As suggested by the name, would fixative sprays be more likely to really bond the ink into the paper, and eliminate this problem?

 

[neil_w]

Final test: cut with a fresh snap-off blade instead of scissors:

Verdict: no improvement. By the way, these close-ups show what a crappy clear-coating job I did. Very bumpy surface. Annoying.

I might just go back to the laser decals for my white-backed needs, despite the limitations. Here is a close-up of a laser decal I applied to Blackfish. The decal was coated (after application) with multiple coats of Future to better match the gloss of the paint; however, you can still see the unevenness of the finish. I still don't know if that is a characteristic of laser decals in general, or just an artifact of the particular printer we have at work. Most importantly, though, absolutely no whiteness is visible at the edges.

Also, in case you're wondering, the quality of paint finish I got on the rocket is really bad. Your eyes do not deceive.