Anyone have an idea what motor this is on ebay?

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I believe you received an answer in the other thread where you asked the question (I don't recall which it was)

I wonder if the seller has hazmat shipping capability?
 
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I believe you received an answer in the other trhead where you asked the question (I don't recall which it was)

I wonder if the seller has hazmat shipping capability?

That was my question too. Seeing how all motor vendors I know that can ship, also have websites to order on, I suspect an ebay seller would be shipping illegally. Never know though, but with a single use motor that size, it would guess it would also require hazmat to be legal.
 
Nytrunner, I must be getting old I don't remember asking about that auction.

And I think everyone is right his shipping is really low so he is probably not shipping it properly.
 
That was my question too. Seeing how all motor vendors I know that can ship, also have websites to order on, I suspect an ebay seller would be shipping illegally. Never know though, but with a single use motor that size, it would guess it would also require hazmat to be legal.
Most folks selling motors on ebay are private sellers and have zero ability to legally ship them. I know of at least one that several months ago sold his cases here, but sold his reloads on ebay......all of THE RELOADS were hazmat required.

ETA Underlined clarification.
 
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So, explain what hazmat is, and why it costs extra. Is it a different type of packaging? is It gonna blow up in the mail? Or is it just a way to make money for the postal services... just asking
 
I think this is the job of postal inspectors..... maybe the person who purchased that motor was an undercover postal inspector.....if they don't want to or can't enforce their own rules and regulations ( and laws) concerning hazmat, why should the average person care? Everybody games the system to their advantage until they get caught or called out on it.. You never go to prison for all the stuff you ever got away with; it's that last one that bites you in the butt.

Heck I read an online story the other day that Amazon was selling OTC medications that had prescription level drugs in them.....

I'm not saying that it's alright and I'm not saying it's a bad thing...

I'm just saying since the dawn of civilization man has created religions and governments(rules,regulations,laws,etc) to control the behavior of other men. History shows us that doesn't always succeed.
 
So, explain what hazmat is, and why it costs extra. Is it a different type of packaging? is It gonna blow up in the mail? Or is it just a way to make money for the postal services... just asking

Extra packaging, reinforced boxes, special handling procedures.

Admittedly, I'd hope the average parcel DOESN'T have a high chance of catching on fire, but for the ones marked "flammable solid hazard" They apparently take care to REALLY make sure it doesn't catch on fire
 
The packages are generally kept in locked areas rather than just mixed in with the other parcels at depots. They are handled with a little more caution. Interestingly I have found that tracking on DG parcels is far less reliable and frequent than regular packages.
 
Extra packaging, reinforced boxes, special handling procedures.

Admittedly, I'd hope the average parcel DOESN'T have a high chance of catching on fire, but for the ones marked "flammable solid hazard" They apparently take care to REALLY make sure it doesn't catch on fire
And don't forget paperwork....lots of paperwork, the HAZMAT Fee is paid to the carriers to process the shipments, a shipper has to be certified to ship the material and certifies that the material is what they say it is as well as package the product properly as per 49CFR (iirc) aka Code of Federal Regulations, the carrier has to confirm that the shipper has done their job (verifying that the paperwork matches the material and properly packaged) and the carrier (transporter) assumes risk related to an accident with said materials, the carriers are also required to have specially trained and qualified drivers to handle hazardous materials (I spend 12-20 hours every year in classes related to being a CDL A holder with Hazmat, Double/Triples/Tankers endorsements), driver qualifications require individuals hired to solely handle driver records and make sure the drivers have the required training on a regular basis. Thats why HAZMAT Fees exist...to protect you the public from potentially deadly spills or accidents, want to check out something nasty I used to haul, Telone C17 a %17 Chloropicrin by volume fumigant for use on nematodes, the trailers are stainless steel and as they are emptied are backfilled with nitrogen gas as the moisture in the air makes the chemical so corrosive it will attack stainless steel so the trailers are backfilled with nitrogen to keep the pressure relief valves from opening allowing in outside air, the product (DOW chemical iirc) is not allowed to be loaded ahead of time, the driver loads the material and proceeds directly to the destination pretty much treating the material as a WMD (while not usually fatal at %17 percent its really hard on the respiratory system), empty trailers are kept under lock and key at all times, drivers handling loading and unloading are required to wear chemical resisitant clothing including gloves and boots as well as a respirator with OV and Acid Gas cartridges. Solid Rocket motors reloads are in the Explosive 1.3 and 1.4 classes depending on quatity and so have all the restrictions associated with those items while over the road. Personnel assigned to review hazmat shipping papers also make sure that non compatible items are not on the same transport or a separated according to special requirements, for example a Explosives 1.3 or 1.4 shipment may not be co-mingled in the same trailer with Flammable Gases, Dangerous when Wet, Flammable Liquids, and most of the other 7 harzard classes of materials they may however by loaded with Flammable Solids (for which motor reloads probably have a secondary hazard class)
 
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Like RB said, they have to make sure only a certain amount of 1.4 class are allowed in a trailer and not packed with incompatible chemicals like corrosives.

Whenever a trailer catches on fire due to self combustion, we call that a portable incineration unit.

Regardless, the seller has pulled the ad.
 
Hazmat is BS. My nephew is a driver and the local Union rep for his local and some special handling is used, but not much. When a Hazmat package arrives it is logged in and put in a caged area on a shelf. most time it is not even locked When it is shipping time it goes on the truck wherever they can fit it ! No special metal explosion proof box or fire proof box, nothing ! It is driven around in a hot truck till delivery. It is a brainstorm idea to rip off shippers for more money, period.
 

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Most folks selling motors on ebay are private sellers and have zero ability to legally ship them. I know of at least one that several months ago sold his cases here, but sold his reloads on ebay......all of them were hazmat required.
There are no hazmat fees for shipping a reloadable motor casing, only the reloads... Edit: Shipper cannot ship any reloads without proper certification to do so, whether or not they are hazmat or not based on grain sizes being over or under 30g each. Those who falsely commented missed the point.
No reloads = legal to ship the casing the whole casing and nothing but the casing...
 
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NO, the buyer is not... The seller is responsible for proper shipping. Which is moot anyway. See above post.
I wondered the same thing. Not saying it is ethical to order something when you know seller is not going to obey the rules, but not sure the buyer is LEGALLY liable.
 
There are no hazmat fees for shipping a reloadable motor casing, only the reloads...

Yeah, we all get that. That's undoubtedly why the seller sold the cases HERE on TRF and the reloads on Ebay.....because we've seen it more than a few times where adds were pulled here because the seller could not legally ship said motors.

Folks here on TRF generally know better, but on ebay, probably not so much.
 
So, what about all of us hauling our reload kits to the flying field? While working for DOE, I had to go through a six week long hazmat transportation training course just to carry around a small Cs137 calibration source for a "portable" gamma spec system.
 
There are no hazmat fees for shipping a reloadable motor casing, only the reloads...

It's nowhere near that clean of a distinction.
Some reloads are deemed HazMat label and surcharge worthy, others are not.

The distinction is not even made based on the size of the motor, but the weight of each individual APCP puck (30g per maximum, IIRC).
For example, AT H130W motor is cut into 6 individual pucks/grains of ~20g each (pic #1 below), and can be shipped HazMat-free.
Very similarly impulsed H123W is cut into 4 pucks of ~32g each (pic #2 below), and has HazMat designation.
38mmUSPSLoad.jpg
44fdf8dead0c5d6eb21cdc5aea3442f6.image.180x199.jpg


Net-net: the HazMat designation is somewhat capricious.
I don't see the logic of how shipping 6 pucks of APCP in one tube presents more or less of a flammable threat, than 4 pucks of similar total weight.
But it is, what it is.

If it is a Haz Mat motor buyer is in just as much trouble as seller if caught.

That's not true.
Proper packaging and shipping designation is 100% responsibility of the shipper.
An average buying is in no position to comply with the shipping rules, nor enforce them, nor be responsible for any such compliance in any given jurisdiction.

a
 
So, what about all of us hauling our reload kits to the flying field? While working for DOE, I had to go through a six week long hazmat transportation training course just to carry around a small Cs137 calibration source for a "portable" gamma spec system.
Personal transport vs transport as part of commerce/regulated body. As a person, I can drive down I-80 with a ton (literally) of reloads and there is no issue. If I were UPS/FedEx, I have to be HazMat certified with training, placarding, etc.
 
Is not illegal to ship a reload casing, it is just a metal tube and closures... don't make false statements.

Pardon my imprecision of language.......I never meant to imply that a MOTOR CASE was hazmat in my observation that in the one recent seller's case, he sold the cases here on TRF, but the HAZMAT required reloads on ebay, while his shipping quotes were WITHOUT hazmat.

I have edited my original post to be more precise, but for crying out loud, everyone else realized that I was talking about the RELOADS in this particular situation that I noted being the hazmat requirement, not the cases.

There are half a dozen vendor sources that will tell you what reloads ARE and which ARE NOT hazmat required, and anyone selling "great condition, I only flew them a few times" Loki and Dr Rocket motors tubes in the 38 and 54mm sizes knows damn well what HAZMAT shipping means.
 
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There are half a dozen vendor sources that will tell you what reloads ARE and which ARE NOT hazmat required, and anyone selling "great condition, I only flew them a few times" Loki and Dr Rocket motors tubes in the 38 and 54mm sizes knows damn well what HAZMAT shipping means.

Not if they only bought reloads on the field . . . It is a possibility.

Dave F.
 
Personal transport vs transport as part of commerce/regulated body. As a person, I can drive down I-80 with a ton (literally) of reloads and there is no issue. If I were UPS/FedEx, I have to be HazMat certified with training, placarding, etc.
I'm not sure there's a distinction between private and commercial vehicles.

https://www.atf.gov/file/22001/download
In researching how much explosives I can transport in my car, I got a message saying someone wants to talk to me. Weird...
 
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