Anyone have an idea what motor this is on ebay?

[heada]

ATF doesn't control HazMat, DoT does. Look up the DoT regs. APCP is *NOT* an explosive.

 

[cj cake]

I contacted the seller and he responded that all of his motors were pulled off of eBay by eBay staff.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

ATF doesn't control HazMat, DoT does. Look up the DoT regs. APCP is *NOT* an explosive.

I agree that DOT regulates commercial transport of hazmat. ATF controls any explosives. Per the link I provided.

The Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA), within the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT), has regulatory and civil enforcement authority over the transportation of explosive materials in commerce. The regulatory enforcement of explosive materials while they are not being transported falls under ATF jurisdiction. The following information is intended to help clarify when explosive materials are subject to DOT regulation and when they are subject to ATF regulation.

 

[heada]

I agree that DOT regulates commercial transport of hazmat. ATF controls any explosives. Per the link I provided.

TRA and NAR spent the better part of a decade and millions of dollars to sue the BATFE and scientifically prove APCP is not an explosive. When talking about transportation of APCP, any talk of the ATF is moot since it is not an explosive.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

TRA and NAR spent the better part of a decade and millions of dollars to sue the BATFE and scientifically prove APCP is not an explosive. When talking about transportation of APCP, any talk of the ATF is moot since it is not an explosive.

Does the shipping box say “1.4 Explosives”? If not, then no problem. If it was packaged with the label but removed, that’s a different issue.

 

[heada]

Does the shipping box say “1.4 Explosives”? If not, then no problem. If it was packaged with the label but removed, that’s a different issue.

 

[Ez2cDave]

I always thought that "Model Airplane Parts" was cool . . . Back in the day !

Dave F.

 

[rdrown]

It is either a 24mm G55 or G110.
That information should be printed on the paper cap covering the ejection charge.

In the eBay ad above (post 9) it says never stored below 60 degrees Celsius or above 90 degrees Celsius. That is between 140 and 194 degrees Fahrenheit. I’d be leery of this one.

 

[TonyL]

I am curious if the folks who think hazmat shipping is a scam have read the DOT regulations or have taken the training that goes with having a hazmat endorsement on one's CDL? If they did, they might better understand how it works [when I drove freight I had a Hazmat endorsement].

My observation is that the regulations are written to prevent large scale disasters like a propane tanker jack-knifed in a tunnel, and not so much to prevent a fire in a UPS truck from becoming an incrementally larger fire in a UPS truck because there is a G40 motor in one of the 200 packages in the truck.

My observation also is that the regulations control primarily how it is packaged, how it may be transported in bulk [and sometimes as an individual package], and how much can be in one place.

I think it is very easy to identify a niche product that can be made to appear trivial in view of the regulations, but that does not seem particularly important beyond that particular product's lack of advocacy from a powerful political lobby. If our hobby had a powerful political lobby, our stuff would quite possibly be ORM-D instead of 1.4

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

In the eBay ad above (post 9) it says never stored below 60 degrees Celsius or above 90 degrees Celsius. That is between 140 and 194 degrees Fahrenheit. I’d be leery of this one.

Lost in translation...

 

[beeblebrox]

I am curious if the folks who think hazmat shipping is a scam have read the DOT regulations or have taken the training that goes with having a hazmat endorsement on one's CDL? If they did, they might better understand how it works [when I drove freight I had a Hazmat endorsement].

My observation is that the regulations are written to prevent large scale disasters like a propane tanker jack-knifed in a tunnel, and not so much to prevent a fire in a UPS truck from becoming an incrementally larger fire in a UPS truck because there is a G40 motor in one of the 200 packages in the truck.

My observation also is that the regulations control primarily how it is packaged, how it may be transported in bulk [and sometimes as an individual package], and how much can be in one place.

I think it is very easy to identify a niche product that can be made to appear trivial in view of the regulations, but that does not seem particularly important beyond that particular product's lack of advocacy from a powerful political lobby. If our hobby had a powerful political lobby, our stuff would quite possibly be ORM-D instead of 1.4

YES, Exactly, but instead people in charge of the DOT hate the hobby and make it nearly impossible for new companies to emerge due to ridiculous regulations that are completely unfair. If this country could adopt the same type of rules as Australia, things would be much better. A company there only has to have one propellant tested. ALL APCP propellants are considered the same, White flame, Red flame, white smoke, black smoke, etc. does not matter. The DOT does not even comply with their own regulations, if they did APCP propellant would not be a hazmat item at all because the burn rate falls below the classification for Flammable Solid and should actually be exempt from any constraints. BUT the DOT does what it does because they don't care about anything but taking money from companies and creating a reason to cite and fine people for "Non - compliance" - It's all about the Benjamins...

Since I have actually participated in DOT classification tests and have seen first hand what happens to a box of rocket motor reloads, and Single use motors deliberately burned in a fire, I know what happens. I certainly would rather be 50' from a box of J motor reloads than 100' from a box of 1000 rounds of ammo in a fire. And I didn't have to pay a $35 hazmat fee to buy the ammo...

Note: A box of J reloads was less dangerous in a fire than the same sized box with the same weight of Estes model rocket motors, They (Estes) became propulsive and flew all over the place. But they still would have not gotten to a UPS driver from the back. If that driver was still in the truck that long after the fire started, they probably would have more to worry about than that box of motors, like the fuel tank...

IF someone hits the lottery...Lets create that lobby!

 

[Banzai88]

Not if they only bought reloads on the field . . . It is a possibility.

Dave F.

In the case I sited they were selling cases here, and reloads on ebay, they have a computer. Ten seconds on Google and you have all the information you need.

5 years BAR, I have yet to meet anyone at over a dozen different fields across the country that are buying motor reloads that do not know about the value of a local vendor over internet sales/shipping in regards to hazmat shipping.

Possible, yes, probable.....I'm not buying it.

 

[rharshberger]

YES, Exactly, but instead people in charge of the DOT hate the hobby and make it nearly impossible for new companies to emerge due to ridiculous regulations that are completely unfair. If this country could adopt the same type of rules as Australia, things would be much better. A company there only has to have one propellant tested. ALL APCP propellants are considered the same, White flame, Red flame, white smoke, black smoke, etc. does not matter. The DOT does not even comply with their own regulations, if they did APCP propellant would not be a hazmat item at all because the burn rate falls below the classification for Flammable Solid and should actually be exempt from any constraints. BUT the DOT does what it does because they don't care about anything but taking money from companies and creating a reason to cite and fine people for "Non - compliance" - It's all about the Benjamins...

Since I have actually participated in DOT classification tests and have seen first hand what happens to a box of rocket motor reloads, and Single use motors deliberately burned in a fire, I know what happens. I certainly would rather be 50' from a box of J motor reloads than 100' from a box of 1000 rounds of ammo in a fire. And I didn't have to pay a $35 hazmat fee to buy the ammo...

Note: A box of J reloads was less dangerous in a fire than the same sized box with the same weight of Estes model rocket motors, They (Estes) became propulsive and flew all over the place. But they still would have not gotten to a UPS driver from the back. If that driver was still in the truck that long after the fire started, they probably would have more to worry about than that box of motors, like the fuel tank...

IF someone hits the lottery...Lets create that lobby!

AFAIK DOT doesnt make any money from the HAZMAT fee, it all goes to the carrier.