Is there something in the ocean that is making states on the coasts go loopy?
I like it, you should make it your new sig line!!!I sneer at latex danger.
There may be a few dicey chemicals inside those motors, I don't know and I will likely never find out (chances of me ever flying an L or M motor are something smaller than zero). I have to agree with someone's crack about our modern "nanny state" because I have other "dangerous" items all around me, every single day....I guess I should start watching for when my second head starts growing.
I have motor oil here at home. Not used or dirty, mind you, but BRAND NEW motor oil still sealed in those cute little quart bottles, never been opened. Even if I wanted to for some strange reason, it is against the law for me to throw this oil away in the trash because someone has decided it is a dangerous substance (I guess it might make the dump dirty).
I have fluorescent tubes all around my (her?) kitchen. I just replaced all of them with a fresh batch and now I have a box in the garage with 14 old fluorescent bulbs. I can walk into the hardware store and buy as many as I like, with no permits, no training, no nothin' (as can anybody), but I can't throw away the used ones in the trash. It is against the law for me to throw them away in the trash because someone thinks they are too dangerous.
I have latex paint all around the house, in every room including the ones where the kids sleep. I can go to any of about 100 local stores and buy all the latex paint I want, and no one seems the least concerned that I might be stockpiling a dangerous terrorist chemical weapon. But I can't throw away the empty paint cans in the trash because someone is afraid that the latex chemicals are deadly. (They wouldn't even let me throw away a can that one of the kids got with a T-shirt and markers packed in it, and NEVER had paint inside, because it LOOKS like a paint can. Sheesh.) I have a huge pile of old paint cans in the garage. I sneer at latex danger.
There is no place for me to take these things for proper disposal. Because I don't live inside the "official" city limits, the city will not accept these materials when they do their once-yearly "special" trash collection. The county has no provision for disposing of this stuff (they send me to the city people). I guess I am going to have to store it myself, forever, and dangerously live amongst the horrible hazards until my garage fills up and bursts. Or is declared a hazardous waste site.
I get really tired of people who write these rules without thinking them through, just because some lab rat got sick after some scientists force-fed it a ton of samples representing 842 years of exposure. We have too many people inflicting "safety" rules on us without thinking through the real-world impacts of all their requirements.
Warn me, fine, but then please leave me alone.
(Phew, I feel better now.)
I distinctly remember the side of the KNO3 bottles that I bought as a kid had instructions for farmers to use the stuff to dose their animals if they needed a laxative. What's up with that?
I heard Barium Nitrate will make my babies be born naked. Is this true?
Harmful if swallowed.
Gary - love the Greens and Reds, and Blacks, and Whites, oh my! I think the I245G is one of my favorites. Someday I will go for my level 3, and having more choices like the new M1500G sounds really great!
Thanks for the reminder though that I need to more consistently wear my safety gloves, esp when cleaning out spent motors of any propellant formulation. I have to admit I only remember about 1/2 the time, duh.
Oh brother, where to begin....
Interesting how you only mentioned me by name, as there are at least two other manufacturers producing green flame motors. Are you associated in any way with one of our competitors?
Putting this together with other information I have gleaned from multiple sources, this is beginning to sound a lot like the anti-reload fear-mongering efforts of the early '90s. Video and report to follow?
As for manufacturers, if they follow proper industrial hygiene procedures they won't be poisoned.
I believe AeroTech is the only manufacturer of green motors that includes additional specific warnings about handling the propellant and breathing the exhaust fumes.
Though there have been no issues with the handling or use of Mojave Green motors, we are going to add additional precautions in future production.
Based on your own cite, ALL solid rocket motors are hazardous substances. FYI there is an exemption for the sale of certain rocket motors to children, otherwise they would all be banned hazardous substances. Mojave Green motors are labeled for sale to adults only, though we could legally make 'F' and smaller versions available for our younger customers.
Open reload package.
Do not lick, eat,chop up and sniff, or put in chili for flavoring
Hold your breath and drop the grains into liner.
Assemble motor.
Wash your hands.
Now go launch your rocket in full knowledge you have been "safety compliant"
Mandatory: have DNA with common sense in your lineage.
Problem solved......LOLarty::banghead::banghead:
Looks great! Both a reminder for gloves in the section about loading the grains..... and just remember my gloves from now on... what about adding a line about when/if gloves are recommended/QUOTE]
Ok--What have I missed? It appears that half the people posting here believe that gloves are needed to handle Mojave Green--as well as most other motors. When did that that info come out? I have been flying Mojave Green all year--without gloves--I even have a Mojave Green shirt. I have never worn gloves to load a motor in 17 years--I am still alive. I just went to the Aerotech website and read the instructions for a Mojave Green reload--nothing was said about gloves. Specifically, it said "...wash hands after handling Mojave Green propellant and before eating". Let's not get carried away on the dangers (real and imagined) of any green propellant. I intend to keep doing what I have been doing--using common sense--and I should be fine.
Besides, ever try to find running water on the desert? (Yes, I do carry a whole bunch of baby wipes to clean up--both me and my hardware--and I always use them to clean up prior to eating--nothing to do with Mojave Green ). I do use cheap disposable plastic gloves (Price Club--$9.00 for 2,000) for cleaning out the case after the flight--that is nasty. I did it without gloves a few times--took 2 days to get the black gunk off.
What are the end products from the reaction of the engine. Barium Oxide would be my guess which is anhydrous and would suck the water out of the air and make barium hydroxide...
but thats just spitballing
Do you have the actual reaction products?
Ok--What have I missed? It appears that half the people posting here believe that gloves are needed to handle Mojave Green--as well as most other motors. When did that that info come out? .... I just went to the Aerotech website and read the instructions for a Mojave Green reload--nothing was said about gloves. Specifically, it said "...wash hands after handling Mojave Green propellant and before eating".
Looks great! Both a reminder for gloves in the section about loading the grains..... and just remember my gloves from now on... what about adding a line about when/if gloves are recommended/QUOTE]
Ok--What have I missed? It appears that half the people posting here believe that gloves are needed to handle Mojave Green--as well as most other motors. When did that that info come out? I have been flying Mojave Green all year--without gloves--I even have a Mojave Green shirt. I have never worn gloves to load a motor in 17 years--I am still alive. I just went to the Aerotech website and read the instructions for a Mojave Green reload--nothing was said about gloves. Specifically, it said "...wash hands after handling Mojave Green propellant and before eating". Let's not get carried away on the dangers (real and imagined) of any green propellant. I intend to keep doing what I have been doing--using common sense--and I should be fine.
Besides, ever try to find running water on the desert? (Yes, I do carry a whole bunch of baby wipes to clean up--both me and my hardware--and I always use them to clean up prior to eating--nothing to do with Mojave Green ). I do use cheap disposable plastic gloves (Price Club--$9.00 for 2,000) for cleaning out the case after the flight--that is nasty. I did it without gloves a few times--took 2 days to get the black gunk off.
The gloves was a suggestion made by myself and 2 other people posting in this thread, Gary has added it to the instruction sheet which he has uploaded
Take a look at the links Gary provided. One is for an LMS green motor, and the other is a generic MSDS. Both suggest gloves for assembly of Mojave green propellant motors only (step 2.1 for LMS, section 8 in the MSDS).
Take a look at the links Gary provided. One is for an LMS green motor, and the other is a generic MSDS. Both suggest gloves for assembly of Mojave green propellant motors only (step 2.1 for LMS, section 8 in the MSDS). I agree though - I looked at some of the other green reload instructions that I have been using all summer as well, and did not find similar suggestions - just the warning about washing up you noted, hence the suggestion to clarify up front in the instructions *if* and when they are suggested.
Were those the right suggestions or the wrong suggestions from Group North? It's been too long since I saw the movie.
small amounts is deceiving. The amount of Barium NItrate in a typical rocket motor is what? 15-30% by weight?
The 2 G green motors have total propellant weights of 59 and 60 g respectively. do the math thats 6-18g of Barium Nitrate per motor. Thats more than enough to KILL or damge you according to the MSDS.
The AMW LM Green motors have 1900- 4200 g of total propellant. do the math: 280-1200g+ of barium nitrate
You obviously didn't read the MSDS: inhalation causes systemic posioning
MAY BE FATAL IF SWALLOWED. HARMFUL IF INHALED. CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. AFFECTS MUSCLES (INCLUDING THE HEART), AND CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM.
terry dean
How do you know it's Barium nitrate? Have you had the reloads analyzed? Maybe there is some, me I don't know.
If there is its most likely in the 8 to 10% range, after all you have about 65 to 80% AP, this doesn't leave much room when you have another 10 to 15% R-45m.
Do the math.
Lets see (we'll use averages):
100% Propellant.
70% AP, thats 30% left.
12% R-45, thats 18% left.
3% DOA or other plasticizer, 15% left.
Some metal 5% or so, 10% left.
Toss in some Tepanol, and some Castor oil, 8% left.
Not much room left over is there, (can't be 30%) ? Then there is also the chance Gary's green formula contains Barium Carbonate along with the Barium Nitrate. It may also get the green color from a copper compound, and PVC or something else.
How do you know? Shoot first, ask questions later?
Maybe Gary should be banned, shot, or bar-b-qued by CPSC? Maybe you will arrange this? Maybe we should ban green propellant? Wouldn't this affect AMW and Gorilla Motors as well?
Use the safe distance tables and the safety rules, you'll be OK ..... I promise.
By the way, reading how you have threatened to contact CPSC about this matter puts a whole new light on you. Are you now Dudley Do Right?
I'm sure this post will get butchered.
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