9 engine CHAD cluster

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

AfterBurners

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
7,963
Reaction score
526
I'm consider building this cluster **** using BP motors. Have the booster stage on (3) E-9-0 when it drops it will come down via parachute, verses tumble drop. Those motors will ignite the next 3 engines E-9-0 which will be tape to E-12-? after they burn out they will drop out the bottom of the rocket and lite the final 3 motors recessed in the air frame. which will continue to apogee and motor ejection coming down on a nice size parachute. Considered using a BT-80 for the air frame design.
 

JumpJet

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
748
Reaction score
50
I didn't know Estes made E9-0 Motors.

John Boren
 

Daddyisabar

Oddrocs Rule!
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
5,030
Reaction score
705
Location
Littleton Colorado
From what I have heard a CHAD stage from a three cluster booster to a three cluster sustainer will not work. The differences in ingition times using CHAD staging are too great to light the upper cluster close enough in time to warrant success. Three to one CHAD will work. Electronics will work. CHAD Flashpan cluster staging is crazy.:y:
 

AfterBurners

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
7,963
Reaction score
526
From what I have heard a CHAD stage from a three cluster booster to a three cluster sustainer will not work. The differences in ingition times using CHAD staging are too great to light the upper cluster close enough in time to warrant success. Three to one CHAD will work. Electronics will work. CHAD Flashpan cluster staging is crazy.:y:
I feel like a mad scientist. I will make it work because I will be wearing my big floppy clown shoes as I sniff the fumes of the mixed chemicals in my laboratory from the epoxy and sanding sealer.

I talked to one of the engineers at NASA and he said it would work. He also sniffs glue.:lol::lol::lol::lol:
 

Daddyisabar

Oddrocs Rule!
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
5,030
Reaction score
705
Location
Littleton Colorado
I feel like a mad scientist. I will make it work because I will be wearing my big floppy clown shoes as I sniff the fumes of the mixed chemicals in my laboratory from the epoxy and sanding sealer.
Such an outfit and atmosphere is typical of the no good mindsimmer. This forum prefers a short sleeve white shirt, thin black tie, black plastic rim glasses, pocket protector and clouds of cigarette smoke just like it was at NASA in the 60's. Computer simulation is a must to ensure safety.:)

D12-0's will work better, lighter and punchier. Not so clunky as E12's.
 

Daddyisabar

Oddrocs Rule!
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
5,030
Reaction score
705
Location
Littleton Colorado
A-10s have really big nozzles and three will easily light in an upper stage like in the MIRV. Timing will still be an issue. Maybe smaller is better. Small and Dangerous Rocket Ships can be fun! At least that is what this no good mindsimmer has to offer.:)
 

Daddyisabar

Oddrocs Rule!
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
5,030
Reaction score
705
Location
Littleton Colorado
All you have to do is devise a way that the first flame from any of the booster motors immediately ignites the cluster in the second stage. Sounds easy. . . right?

I guess Cheap and Dirty will only get you so far in life; then you have to give into the ultra Expensive and Clean world of composites staged electronically.
 

rstaff3

Oddroc-eteer
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
11,763
Reaction score
21
With 9 E12's you have a 133% chance of a CATO. LOL.

Can't CHAD a cluster. BAH. Just DO IT...and document it too.
 

Daddyisabar

Oddrocs Rule!
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
5,030
Reaction score
705
Location
Littleton Colorado
With 9 E12's you have a 133% chance of a CATO. LOL.

Can't CHAD a cluster. BAH. Just DO IT...and document it too.
The big fireball from the CATO will surely ignite the second stage, giving it a good boost too! Like I said earlier everything I know is just HEARSAY. Can't remember a video of such and event failure. Yes, JUST DO IT! And wear your NIKE Air Jordan's. I want to be like MIKE!
 

AfterBurners

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
7,963
Reaction score
526
The big fireball from the CATO will surely ignite the second stage, giving it a good boost too! Like I said earlier everything I know is just HEARSAY. Can't remember a video of such and event failure. Yes, JUST DO IT! And wear your NIKE Air Jordan's. I want to be like MIKE!
I'm cleaning off the second work bench
 

rstaff3

Oddroc-eteer
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
11,763
Reaction score
21
Just make sure each of the vertical stacks are individually taped.
 

AfterBurners

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
7,963
Reaction score
526
so seriously you don't think my odds are that good? What if I put a fancy paint job on it? At least it would pretty as the rocket burst into a fireball right? I have a story about that, but first let me find the pictures.
 

ksaves2

Lifetime Supporter
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
6,264
Reaction score
490
Location
Central Illinois
E9-0 was a dream then Estes came out with the E12-0 and the reality was even better!:)
I made 'em and flew E9-0's in a Zenith 2 modroc with a booster to take the E. Got E9-P's and a twist drill. Don't go OMG now. I just simply and slowly hand twisted the drill bit
to ream out the clay plug. Stopped when I got to the black propellant. I flew a half dozen of them with no CATO's at TRA Research launches.
(Of course they were modified motors and I wouldn't have flown them at a NAR launch) Kurt
 

Daddyisabar

Oddrocs Rule!
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
5,030
Reaction score
705
Location
Littleton Colorado
so seriously you don't think my odds are that good? What if I put a fancy paint job on it? At least it would pretty as the rocket burst into a fireball right? I have a story about that, but first let me find the pictures.
From what I have heard the chances of a 3-3-3 BP E motor cluster are slim to none, and Slim is leaving town!
 

JumpJet

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
748
Reaction score
50
Well I actually do have some E9-0 motors made by Estes. They have NO label and were never produced for Production. My guess is once they tried to stage a model using them they quickly figured out a D12-0 was a much better way to go.



John Boren
 

Daddyisabar

Oddrocs Rule!
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
5,030
Reaction score
705
Location
Littleton Colorado
"I don't know but I've been told, D12 motors are MIGHTY BOLD!"

Sing loudly as you run around the range five times. Then you can launch a MIGHTY D motor!
 

new2hpr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
985
Reaction score
68
Location
Colorado
From what I have heard the chances of a 3-3-3 BP E motor cluster are slim to none, and Slim is leaving town!
I did a 3x E9 cluster once and not one, but all three popped their nozzles out onto the blast deflector. Had to just sit and wait for it to burn out slowly. The rocket survived.
-Ken
 

Daddyisabar

Oddrocs Rule!
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
5,030
Reaction score
705
Location
Littleton Colorado
"Down the road there's a cemetery, that's were my rockets gonna be buried!" Sound off 1 - 2, Sound off 3 - 4, Sound off - bring her on down 1-2-3-4!
 

rstaff3

Oddroc-eteer
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
11,763
Reaction score
21
I made 'em and flew E9-0's in a Zenith 2 modroc with a booster to take the E. Got E9-P's and a twist drill. Don't go OMG now. I just simply and slowly hand twisted the drill bit
to ream out the clay plug. Stopped when I got to the black propellant. I flew a half dozen of them with no CATO's at TRA Research launches.
(Of course they were modified motors and I wouldn't have flown them at a NAR launch) Kurt
You will get no OMG from me. I do such things often. I use old chopsticks for said reaming. Had to resort to a drill bit when I got an f15 with a double thick nozzle but only a single deep nozzle hole. But then, I never got to the bp from that end.
 

rstaff3

Oddroc-eteer
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
11,763
Reaction score
21
Joking aside, I have burned over 100 e9's and had only a few issues. One of which, is totally on me. Statistically, the odds on e12's are not that bad if you stay away from the bad dates. I have had zero problems even on the bad date codes when I use quickmatch. Just my unsciency observations.
 

AfterBurners

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
7,963
Reaction score
526
Joking aside, I have burned over 100 e9's and had only a few issues. One of which, is totally on me. Statistically, the odds on e12's are not that bad if you stay away from the bad dates. I have had zero problems even on the bad date codes when I use quickmatch. Just my unsciency observations.
If the booster CATO's on the pad will there be enough flames to launch the upper stage? I can live with that....
 

rstaff3

Oddroc-eteer
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
11,763
Reaction score
21
Well if THAT happens, it will likely flip over and landshark on stages 2 & 3.
 

rstaff3

Oddroc-eteer
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
11,763
Reaction score
21
Or it will eject the other two burning motors and possibly some or all of stage 2 will ignite.
 

BDB

Absent Minded Professor
Joined
Aug 22, 2015
Messages
2,237
Reaction score
495
If the booster CATO's on the pad will there be enough flames to launch the upper stage? I can live with that....
Yes. It happened to me last month with a C11-0. The first stage of my Comanche 3 flew about 10 ft, then blew out the nozzle but simultaneously lit the second stage for an otherwise normal flight.
 

rstaff3

Oddroc-eteer
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
11,763
Reaction score
21
Yes. It happened to me last month with a C11-0. The first stage of my Comanche 3 flew about 10 ft, then blew out the nozzle but simultaneously lit the second stage for an otherwise normal flight.
I wouldn't count on a CATO starting all three motors. That said, I'd recommend flying from far away pads in fire safe conditions. Keep a water source by the pad. Make all three upper motors handle the ejection and make sure it will fly on two for each stage, if possible. What else......
 
Top