Dr Zooch Soyuz build (Completed!)

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:cheers: There ya go! The devil is in the details.....but they turn a "meh" model into a "wow" model.....I'm not saying your Soyuz was a "meh" model....

It's fine, my Soyuz was a meh model lol, it still kinda is, its just a better meh model! (well at least when it comes to the grain on the nosecone.. Its so visible it hurts. My filler sucks or something.
 
Does anyone know someone who has painted their soyuz to match the white color scheme?
soyuz-15.jpg
Thatd be interesting to see.
 
I just realized the sloped adapter to the soyuz capsule is supposed to be gray not white... nooooooo!
The Instructions said to paint it white :(
 
Everything in TN is more aggressive ;) same for Texas and Australia!

You're in Tennessee?? Thought you were out west (CA maybe) for some reason...

Where at in Tennessee?? I was just through there a few weeks ago... spent a week with my wife's best friend from college and her husband and son (who's six months older than our daughter Keira, who's 8) after our usual summer trip to Indiana to the inlaws...

Used to live in Nashville right after I got married back in 2000...

Later! OL JR :)
 
You're in Tennessee?? Thought you were out west (CA maybe) for some reason...

Where at in Tennessee?? I was just through there a few weeks ago... spent a week with my wife's best friend from college and her husband and son (who's six months older than our daughter Keira, who's 8) after our usual summer trip to Indiana to the inlaws...

Used to live in Nashville right after I got married back in 2000...

Later! OL JR :)

I live in Hendersonville. Nashville is about a 10-15 minute drive from where I live :)
 
Quick update!
Im basically doing small touchups right now, so:
I re did the launch lug to have a nicer less blocky looking shape.
View attachment 143696
Ive added the decals you linked NJRick :) I didnt do exactly how you did them, instead I did 2 of the CCCP stickers, 2 of the circular purple ones, and 4 russian flags instead of 2 american 2 russian. (The decals you see are identical on the back)
.

Looking good... I ALWAYS cut the ends of my launch lugs to a 45 degree angle... it just really makes them look like they BELONG on the rocket... the squared off lug ends (from the factory) just look SO out of place and stick out like a sore thumb IMHO... tapering the lugs just makes them "blend in" so much better...

Ummm... you might not be aware of this, since you were probably born after the fall of the Soviet Union and the disintegration of the Soviet Union into the Russian Federation and Confederation of Independent States, fall of the Berlin Wall, and all of that back in 1989-1991 or thereabouts... You wouldn't actually see a Soyuz carrying BOTH the "CCCP" (Cyrillic alphabet for "USSR") AND the Russian flags. Under the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the Russian republic was basically just a "State", roughly equivalent to the others, like Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, or Estonia, Georgia, Belarus, etc... Certainly the Russian element dominated, but technically it was simply a "State" (like a US State, say Texas, Tennessee, or Kentucky) like any other...

AFTER the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, however, the Republics became independent states ("states" with a small "s", IE an independent COUNTRY). So, at that point, the Russians dumped the hammer and sickle of communism and reverted back to the blue, white, and red Russian flag and the double eagle crest as they had prior to the Red Revolution that formed the Soviet Union back in 1917. Now that the Soyuz is carrying US astronauts as well, and we're "friends" with the Russians, Soyuz also carries a US flag if it's launching a US astronaut aboard.

SO, you wouldn't see the "CCCP" and Russian flags on the same rocket... it would have one or the other... "CCCP" if prior to 1991, and a Russian blue, white, and red flag if after 1991.

Just saying, so you know... it's your rocket and you can do what you want of course, but historically its incorrect... LOL:)

Later! OL JR :)
 
It's fine, my Soyuz was a meh model lol, it still kinda is, its just a better meh model! (well at least when it comes to the grain on the nosecone.. Its so visible it hurts. My filler sucks or something.

How are you filling them?? Lemme know what you're doing, and I'll see what I can do to help... :)

Later! OL JR :)
 
Looking good... I ALWAYS cut the ends of my launch lugs to a 45 degree angle... it just really makes them look like they BELONG on the rocket... the squared off lug ends (from the factory) just look SO out of place and stick out like a sore thumb IMHO... tapering the lugs just makes them "blend in" so much better...

Ummm... you might not be aware of this, since you were probably born after the fall of the Soviet Union and the disintegration of the Soviet Union into the Russian Federation and Confederation of Independent States, fall of the Berlin Wall, and all of that back in 1989-1991 or thereabouts... You wouldn't actually see a Soyuz carrying BOTH the "CCCP" (Cyrillic alphabet for "USSR") AND the Russian flags. Under the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the Russian republic was basically just a "State", roughly equivalent to the others, like Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, or Estonia, Georgia, Belarus, etc... Certainly the Russian element dominated, but technically it was simply a "State" (like a US State, say Texas, Tennessee, or Kentucky) like any other...

AFTER the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, however, the Republics became independent states ("states" with a small "s", IE an independent COUNTRY). So, at that point, the Russians dumped the hammer and sickle of communism and reverted back to the blue, white, and red Russian flag and the double eagle crest as they had prior to the Red Revolution that formed the Soviet Union back in 1917. Now that the Soyuz is carrying US astronauts as well, and we're "friends" with the Russians, Soyuz also carries a US flag if it's launching a US astronaut aboard.

SO, you wouldn't see the "CCCP" and Russian flags on the same rocket... it would have one or the other... "CCCP" if prior to 1991, and a Russian blue, white, and red flag if after 1991.

Just saying, so you know... it's your rocket and you can do what you want of course, but historically its incorrect... LOL:)

Later! OL JR :)

Its not actually a CCP decal IDK why I said that, probably because it reminded me of CCCP..
but what it says is "CO103 TMA"
 
I painted the adapter gray as it is supposed to be. (Chici misleading instructions)
Adapter.jpg
 
Does anyone know someone who has painted their soyuz to match the white color scheme?
View attachment 143722
Thatd be interesting to see.

As kruland pointed out, that's frost from the -390 degree liquid oxygen inside the tanks... I haven't done a Soyuz yet, but I did frost the tanks of my Mercury Atlas I did last year for the 50th Anniversary of John Glenn's Friendship 7 flight... it's pretty easy to do... course, with the complex shape of the R-7, you'd really want to do it BEFORE you glued the boosters on... it was a lot easier on the Atlas since it has no side-mount boosters like R-7 has...

Basically, you just paint the rocket like you would with unfrosted tanks, then mask off the locations of where the frost should be, approximating the line locations since a lot of times there's nothing really delineating where the tank walls are and where the "Y" rings attaching the tank domes are, separating the frosted parts from unfrosted ones... especially on Soyuz and Atlas... I used Tamiya tape to get a clean, straight line, and mask smoothly around all the little detail parts like propellant lines and fairings and stuff on the Atlas-- and it works well on the conical parts like the R-7 boosters as well... then use blue tape to cover half the width of the Tamiya tape and give you a wider coverage area, and then tape a sheet of paper or two around the rocket, taped with another strip of blue tape along the edge, overlapping the last strip of blue tape (so you don't have to carefully align the lines or worry about getting the tape down perfectly-- which is very difficult when taping off the rest of the rocket with paper to prevent overspray...

Once you've got everything but the "frosted" tank sections masked off and protected from overspray, shoot a few light coats of FLAT WHITE spray paint to create the tank frosting... if you go light, you can make it pretty transparent, but be sure you get an EVEN COATING... (not "blotchy" where it's heavier on some parts and lighter on others, showing your spray pattern). I went a little heavier with it on the Atlas, and got "full coverage" (uniformly white, with none of the other color showing through underneath, since the Atlas frosted up REALLY GOOD sitting on the pad in humid Florida before launch...) The main trick is, USE FLAT WHITE PAINT... the "frost" on the rocket is actually pretty fluffy, like your car windshield on a cold morning, and the FLAT white paint will give it the correct appearance... If you use GLOSS white paint, it won't look right... I know, because I grabbed the wrong can of paint (gloss white instead of flat white) on the Atlas and didn't realize it until after I'd pulled the tape off and the paint had dried... so I had to go back and re-mask it and shoot it with FLAT white to get the thing to look right...

Later! OL JR :)
 
I just realized the sloped adapter to the soyuz capsule is supposed to be gray not white... nooooooo!
The Instructions said to paint it white :(

Don't worry about it now... save it for the next one...

Wes sometimes "takes a little liberty" with things like that, to make the kit easier to build... it's easier to paint the entire balsa parts one single color, rather than have to mask off and paint them separate colors, or whatever... Of course if you DID want to paint it the correct colors, that's up to you... but to make the kit easier for newbies and the average builder who just wants a cool looking kit, not necessarily museum-level historical accuracy, a few "simplifications" really help in that regard...

That's why you have to kind of decide where you're going with the build before you ever start it... if you want "super-detailed" and "historically accurate", well, you need to do some research BEFORE you go to work on it...

Don't sweat it... we all screw up some things from time to time... when I did my first EFT-1 Delta IV Heavy launching Orion, I messed up the core stage and so it's "shorter" than the two outboards, and got the launch lugs on the front instead of the back... but it flies great... and nobody would really notice but me (though it bugs me, but what can you do... I DID do it right on the next one I built though, for Wes, that he sent to the Cape Canaveral Air Force Station gift shop... )

Good luck! OL JR :)
 
As kruland pointed out, that's frost from the -390 degree liquid oxygen inside the tanks... I haven't done a Soyuz yet, but I did frost the tanks of my Mercury Atlas I did last year for the 50th Anniversary of John Glenn's Friendship 7 flight... it's pretty easy to do... course, with the complex shape of the R-7, you'd really want to do it BEFORE you glued the boosters on... it was a lot easier on the Atlas since it has no side-mount boosters like R-7 has...

Basically, you just paint the rocket like you would with unfrosted tanks, then mask off the locations of where the frost should be, approximating the line locations since a lot of times there's nothing really delineating where the tank walls are and where the "Y" rings attaching the tank domes are, separating the frosted parts from unfrosted ones... especially on Soyuz and Atlas... I used Tamiya tape to get a clean, straight line, and mask smoothly around all the little detail parts like propellant lines and fairings and stuff on the Atlas-- and it works well on the conical parts like the R-7 boosters as well... then use blue tape to cover half the width of the Tamiya tape and give you a wider coverage area, and then tape a sheet of paper or two around the rocket, taped with another strip of blue tape along the edge, overlapping the last strip of blue tape (so you don't have to carefully align the lines or worry about getting the tape down perfectly-- which is very difficult when taping off the rest of the rocket with paper to prevent overspray...

Once you've got everything but the "frosted" tank sections masked off and protected from overspray, shoot a few light coats of FLAT WHITE spray paint to create the tank frosting... if you go light, you can make it pretty transparent, but be sure you get an EVEN COATING... (not "blotchy" where it's heavier on some parts and lighter on others, showing your spray pattern). I went a little heavier with it on the Atlas, and got "full coverage" (uniformly white, with none of the other color showing through underneath, since the Atlas frosted up REALLY GOOD sitting on the pad in humid Florida before launch...) The main trick is, USE FLAT WHITE PAINT... the "frost" on the rocket is actually pretty fluffy, like your car windshield on a cold morning, and the FLAT white paint will give it the correct appearance... If you use GLOSS white paint, it won't look right... I know, because I grabbed the wrong can of paint (gloss white instead of flat white) on the Atlas and didn't realize it until after I'd pulled the tape off and the paint had dried... so I had to go back and re-mask it and shoot it with FLAT white to get the thing to look right...

Later! OL JR :)

Oh wow thats interesting :) I thought it was actually just white, and the majority of Soyuz pictures are white like that so I guess in Russia they frost a lot.
 
Don't worry about it now... save it for the next one...

Wes sometimes "takes a little liberty" with things like that, to make the kit easier to build... it's easier to paint the entire balsa parts one single color, rather than have to mask off and paint them separate colors, or whatever... Of course if you DID want to paint it the correct colors, that's up to you... but to make the kit easier for newbies and the average builder who just wants a cool looking kit, not necessarily museum-level historical accuracy, a few "simplifications" really help in that regard...

That's why you have to kind of decide where you're going with the build before you ever start it... if you want "super-detailed" and "historically accurate", well, you need to do some research BEFORE you go to work on it...

Don't sweat it... we all screw up some things from time to time... when I did my first EFT-1 Delta IV Heavy launching Orion, I messed up the core stage and so it's "shorter" than the two outboards, and got the launch lugs on the front instead of the back... but it flies great... and nobody would really notice but me (though it bugs me, but what can you do... I DID do it right on the next one I built though, for Wes, that he sent to the Cape Canaveral Air Force Station gift shop... )

Good luck! OL JR :)

Ive got a mild form of OCD so once I notice it, itll haunt me forever until I fix it, so I already fixed it :eyeroll:
 
I live in Hendersonville. Nashville is about a 10-15 minute drive from where I live :)

That's east of Nashville, right?? Betty (my wife) has friends we stay with up at Joelton just north of Nashville out on 24, and south of Nashville down at Murphreesboro... we go down there and usually stay a night, or at least visit. She lived there for about probably 15 years... I only lived there after we got married in the apartment she had when we got hitched, over on the east side by the airport off Briley parkway just north of I-40 East... lived there about 6-8 months before we moved back to Texas to run the farms...

Still enjoy Nashville when I go through there... love to eat good German food at Der Gerst Haus just up the street from the Titans stadium, right off I-24/65 (where they're combined) just east of the stadium...

We honeymooned out at Crossville and we've been down to Chattanooga and over to Gatlinburg a few times... one of her friends got married over at Gatlinburg (the one down in Murphreesboro now). Tennessee is a nice change of pace from here... mountains! Here it's flat as a pool table for miles and miles and miles... but then again, we DO have the beach only an hour away... LOL:)

Later! OL JR :)
 
That's east of Nashville, right?? Betty (my wife) has friends we stay with up at Joelton just north of Nashville out on 24, and south of Nashville down at Murphreesboro... we go down there and usually stay a night, or at least visit. She lived there for about probably 15 years... I only lived there after we got married in the apartment she had when we got hitched, over on the east side by the airport off Briley parkway just north of I-40 East... lived there about 6-8 months before we moved back to Texas to run the farms...

Still enjoy Nashville when I go through there... love to eat good German food at Der Gerst Haus just up the street from the Titans stadium, right off I-24/65 (where they're combined) just east of the stadium...

We honeymooned out at Crossville and we've been down to Chattanooga and over to Gatlinburg a few times... one of her friends got married over at Gatlinburg (the one down in Murphreesboro now). Tennessee is a nice change of pace from here... mountains! Here it's flat as a pool table for miles and miles and miles... but then again, we DO have the beach only an hour away... LOL:)

Later! OL JR :)

Hendersonville is North East of nashville :)
 
Its not actually a CCP decal IDK why I said that, probably because it reminded me of CCCP..
but what it says is "CO103 TMA"

Ah, ok... gotcha...

Just didn't know if you knew that... LOL:) Thought I'd share...

I guess I'm getting old... I remember the war scare of '83, the hubbub over the nuclear cruise missiles and Pershing II's in Europe in the early-mid 80's, and the panic over the Soviet SS-20's... I was in middle school/high school in that time period, and it was one of those things-- growing up wondering if you'd be alive to graduate high school, or if they'd blow the world away in the middle of the night while you slept...

Then came the falling of the Berlin Wall, and the collapse of the Soviet Union, and all the changes since then... I know when I used to tell kids on the bus (when I drove a schoolbus) or Keira or her friends or cousins now, how it was when I was growing up, when video games were something you had to go to the arcade in town and pop a quarter in to play, back when VCR's were just coming into the mainstream (we thought we'd died and gone to heaven when we could watch something beside the 3 networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, and/or PBS if you consider them a network) and about 2-3 local independent stations on TV, watch whatever we wanted pretty much anytime we wanted (so long as you could find it to rent at the video store, because hardly NOBODY owned their own copy of movies back then-- I remember when a VHS of Star Wars cost like $80 bucks... and this was when $80 bucks was more like $160 nowdays, or more...) LONG before cell phones and the Internet was just a gleam in DARPA's eyes... (well, it was DARPA only back then, maybe a handful of colleges... NO "internet" like we know it today existed yet). Heck if you had a computer back then, it was a DOS machine, running at a whopping 8 megahertz, and if you were lucky had a 14.4 dial-up modem and 512 kilobytes of RAM, and twin 5.25 floppy drives... NO such thing as a memory stick or stuff like that back then... you loaded disks and typed commands... heck even Windows was just getting started back then and way above my pay grade...

We've come a LONG way in 30 years... Later! OL JR :)
 
Does anyone know someone who has painted their soyuz to match the white color scheme?.

NJRick painted his Vostok with the frost on the tanks and it turned out great!




attachment.php
 
Im just using Rustoleum Filler Primer

Okay... If you want to get the things looking like plastic, here's how I do it, and it works really well... it takes a little time and effort, but the results are worth it! Look at any of my build threads if in doubt...

First, when you get the kit, read the instructions. Some cones are covered by paper wraps or parts, or you have to sand the tip round or whatever-- no sense in filling parts you don't need to, that will be covered up or have to be sanded to final shape. Do those steps (if required) first (like sanding the tip to shape). Pull the cones/transitions out and inspect them. Anything that looks like it needs a little sanding to smooth out, that might have rough fuzzy spots or dings or something, grab some 220 grit and smooth them down... you want a pretty smooth surface to start. Most of the time, they won't need any prep work before you start.

Now, get yourself a bottle of ULTRA-THIN CA glue... I get mine in the Pink bottle at Hobby Lobby-- get small bottles, because it goes bad over time. You can get it at Hobby Lobby with a 40% off "weekly special" coupon if you print one off their website, or just show them the coupon on a smart phone at the checkout counter... Anyway, take the stuff OUTSIDE to do this. I also recommend that you get a cardboard box, say the lid from a paper box, or a soft-drink flat box that sodas are shipped on, to hold everything. I also recommend that you pick up some WAX-PAPER at the grocery store-- CA won't stick to it. Might be a good idea, being new to this, to grab some NITRILE GLOVES at the hardware store or grocery store (if they have them) so you don't glue your fingers together or glue the nosecone to your fingers or whatever... CA can do some weird things... (BTW, in case you don't know, CA is "cyanoacrylate glue" better known as super glue. You'll want the ULTRA-THIN type for this procedure-- DO NOT try to use the thicker stuff like medium or thick or the cheapy tube-type stuff for this, as you're results may not be good). Tear off some wax paper to line the bottom of your box... this will keep the cones from gluing themselves to the bottom of the box later on...

Take your cones outside in your box with your CA glue bottle. If you have gloves, wear them until you get used to doing this... even I sometimes lose my fingerprints to the cones from CA glue "grabbing them" and nearly gluing my fingers to the cones, and it happens nearly instantly... so I recommend the gloves. Take your nosecone and holding it BY THE SHOULDER that goes into the top of the tube, with the TIP DOWN, start just above the lip of the cone that butts up against the top of the tube, and start dribbling CA onto the cone... you can use the tip of the applicator to "rub it in" and spread it out evenly onto the surface of the balsa... the wood will "drink it in" like water on dry sand... gently turn the cone and evenly apply CA across the surface, working from the back toward the front. Keep giving it CA until the cone will quit "drinking it in" and it starts to run down to the tip and drip off. Be careful, because the cone can get hot if it's got moisture in the wood, because the CA sets up too quickly and gives off heat... also, beware of the fumes, because the ammonia odor given off can be quite strong and sting your eyes and nose... I recommend doing this OUTDOORS ONLY, and stand with the wind blowing from either your right or left side-- NOT toward you into your face (blowing the fumes into your face) or at your back (where the wind can "whip around you" and blow the fumes up into your face). Treat all your cones/transitions this way til they won't soak up any more CA. Then, set them on the WAX PAPER to dry-- it won't take long. You can carry them back into the house by the time you get the cap back on the glue and the cones set up on their back ends on the wax paper... but give them another 10-20 minutes in the house to make sure the CA is "all dry".

Now, sand the cone lightly with 220 grit sandpaper. CA tends to make even the cleanest cone "gritty" because it raises any loose balsa fiber "hairs" or embedded sawdust and causes it to feel like grit on the surface. 220 grit sandpaper and a light sanding will get rid of it in short order and make the cone more or less smooth and not gritty feeling. Don't worry about surface imperfections now... we'll get to those in a minute. If any CA got onto the shoulders of the cone/transition, be sure you sand it down lightly and TEST FIT the cone into the body tube-- CA will make it slightly bigger in diameter and thus it will fit too tightly... just gently sand it with 220 grit until it fits smoothly and evenly into the tube again. The CA seals off the balsa grain and combines with the wood fibers to make a composite material of CA resin and wood fibers, sort of like a poor-man's fiberglass... it also toughens up the outer layer of the cone so it's somewhat more resistant to dings and stuff. (Doesn't make it bulletproof, though, but it DOES help!)

Now that the cone fits the tube nicely and it's got the grit knocked off, grab your blue painter's tape and wrap a layer around the shoulder of the cone, the part that slides into the tube. This will protect it from build up of materials from here on our, and keep the nice fit you have inside the tube. If it's a balsa transition, be sure you test fit BOTH shoulders in their respective tubes, and put blue painter's tape on BOTH. Don't do the tape sooner, because CA COULD glue it to the cone, ruining it (or at least making a HUGE amount of work). Don't skip taping it either, because it will make a lot of extra work to restore the fit of the cone in the tube later if you do...

Get you some Elmer's Carpenters Wood Filler (CWF)... it's in a little white tub with blue writing on it, and an orange lid. You'll also need a 1 inch paint brush (bristle brush, not a foam one) and a baby food jar, small resealable container of some sort, or similar... (baby food jars work well, and it's cheap, or you can save the little plastic bowls with resealable lids from your side orders at Kentucky Fried Chicken-- these work great and are TOTALLY reusable! Just wash it out well and let it dry). Put a dollop (about a tablespoonful) of CWF into the container, and add a few drops of water-- maybe 4-5... don't use too much. You can always add more water if needed, but you can't take any back! Work the water into the CWF by "tapping" the dollop with your paintbrush, and working it around in circles... what you want to do is get rid of any lumps, and get your CWF thinned down to the consistency of HOT DOG MUSTARD... add a little water a few drops at a time until you get this result... it only takes a few minutes of mixing to do this, and the thinner it gets, the easier it is. You don't want it watery like pancake syrup or water, but you don't want it too thick either... when it looks and feels like hot dog mustard, you've got it perfect... Now, brush a smooth, even coat onto the cones and set them back into the box to dry. Usually this only takes about an hour or so... You can be doing other things on the build while they dry. Once the stuff is dry, take your 220 grit sandpaper, and sand the cones down smooth and even as you can get them. You'll sand off about 95% of the filler, but that's okay... you want to FILL the pores and irregularities in the surface of the cone, not build the cone up a large amount.

A word about sanding-- there's a little bit of skill needed here, but it's simple and easy to learn. First off, LET THE PAPER DO THE WORK. DO NOT try to "sand too hard" or too fast. Take your time and let the paper do the work... pushing down hard or trying to sand super-fast only heats the part up and makes the sandpaper gummy, which will cause it to clog up and quit cutting. That waste heat is wasted energy. I have about every grit of sandpaper known to man, but I can build 99% of my rockets with only TWO grits-- 220 grit, and 400 wet/dry sandpaper... You can pick it up at Walmart or the hardware store, your choice. When you sand, you need good techniques, so best to learn them from the start. First, NEVER SAND IN A STRAIGHT LINE IF YOU CAN HELP IT! Sanding in straight lines makes sanding scratches which are very hard to fix later, and requires more work. Instead, sand in a SMALL CIRCULAR MOTION-- this prevents sanding scratches (unless you push down on the paper too hard) and it also promotes cleaning out of the paper's grit, keeping it working smoothly. Another important thing-- DO NOT SAND ON ONE SPOT CONTINUOUSLY. This causes "flat spots" that will be readily apparent in the finished part, and cause you to sand TOO DEEP and sand through previous layers of finishing work you've already done. GENTLY TURN the part in one hand as you sand in small circular motions with the sandpaper in the other hand. I recommend cutting your sandpaper into small rectangles, about 2 inches wide by about 3-4 inches long... this is perfect for most applications. Sand around the cone, starting at the back end just above the shoulder, in little circles as you gently turn the cone in your hand, until you've sanded all the way around... sand around it say twice and then move up about half the width of the circles your sanding, and sand all the way around it again. Move up another half-swath width, and sand it again, working your way gradually up toward the tip. If it's got a rounded tip and needs sanding over it, BE VERY GENTLE. The tighter the curvature or sharper the tip, the more "concentrated" the sanding is, and the more careful you have to be to avoid cutting down too much with the sandpaper... take your time, be extra gentle at the tip, and KEEP MOVING-- and keep sanding in small, soft circles, gently curling the paper to the curve of the tip. The tip should only take a few very light passes to make it clean and smooth. Once you've got the filler sanded down, look and feel the surface of the cone... it should be smooth, and there should be NO visible or feel-able pits, voids, dings, or whatever... Re-sand it with 400 grit the same way-- it doesn't take long, now that the majority of the excess filler has been sanded off... this removes sanding scratches and further smooths the surface from the rougher 220 grit. Wipe the dust off the cone with a damp paper towel, and allow to dry a few minutes.

Now you're ready for primer. I recommend that you tape the cones down to a "paint stick" to give you a handle to do this, because the cones are prone to tipping over and it's hard to paint them well with spray paint getting everywhere... you can either make paint sticks by cutting cardboard strips about 3-4 inches wide and about a foot long (or so) out of cardboard, or you can get "paint mixing sticks" (usually for free or extremely cheap) at the hardware store. These can be reused many times. Tear some strips of blue painter's tape about an inch or two long, and tape the shoulder of the cone down to the painting stick-- you'll have to "stretch" the tape a bit to conform it to the curve of the shoulder and tape it flat to the stick, but it doesn't have to be perfect, just hold the cone to the stick while painting. I recommend Rustoleum gray primer... you can usually get it pretty cheap in an "extra tall" can, it's usually a "high build" primer (meaning extra solids so it builds up the surface faster and smoother) and will usually say "wet sandable" on the can. It's a white can with black writing on it. Works great. Others will work too, but the Rusto is the best stuff I've used. Take your box with cones taped to the paint sticks outside and spray paint them with 2-3 coats of primer... shoot the first coat kinda light, give it a couple minutes, then shoot another coat, a little bit thicker, and give it about five minutes, and then shoot another thicker coat on top of that. Don't go SO thick or so fast that it runs, sags, or drips... the better the job you do applying the primer, the less work later on, SO DON'T RUSH!!! Take your time, it saves time and work in the end!

Let the primer dry, depending on your local conditions, from a couple hours to overnight... even a day or two in winter or cool, damp conditions... You want the primer to be dried and "hard" enough to sand, not gummy when you sand... experience will be your best guide here... Once you think you can start sanding, grab a 220 grit rectangle and start sanding the cone the same way you did before... work from the back to the tip, overlapping, turning the cone very slowly in your hand as you sand, and sand in small circles. Periodically flip your paper over and look at the grit... if the sandpaper starts gumming up with spots of gummy, smooth primer that won't come off, you're either 1) sanding too hard or 2) not waiting for the primer to dry long enough. Lighten up the pressure and see how it looks... If you can see sanding scratches in the surface, lighten up the pressure or wait for the primer to dry some more, or both... Once you've sanded the whole thing with 220 grit, sand it again lightly with 400 grit the same way. I know, it sounds like it will take forever, but really it doesn't... I can sand while watching TV and do all this in one thirty minute show... The 400 grit is to smooth the surface out and remove the roughness left by the 220 grit... the 220 removes the material and smooths everything down, but leaves a slightly textured surface-- the 400 grit is to smooth off that texture and remove a little material so it's very smooth.

Now, inspect the part. Wipe all the sanding dust off with a damp paper towel and wipe it off with a dry paper towel. Feel the cone, and inspect the surface-- you shouldn't see ANY pits, voids, dings, or balsa grain. IF YOU DO, NOW IS THE TIME TO FIX IT!!! If necessary, re-primer the part and let it dry thoroughly and sand it down again... if it's just a bad spot, hit that spot with a few more coats of primer, and let it dry, and resand. Basically you want the cone as smooth and as even as you want it to be when finished at this point. Take the time here to do it how you want it to look, because THIS is where you get the finish you want in the end, right at this point, and THIS is the point to fix any problems. If you've taken your time and done everything right to this point, the cone should be slick and smooth and look almost like plastic... no pits, voids, dings, or balsa grain showing. Now we want the surface really slick and smooth.

Get you an old bowl or paper bowl or something, and put some water in the bottom of it. Grab an old towel that your mom won't mind you getting paint primer dust on, and find a comfortable place to work. Grab a rectangle of 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper (you can probably reuse the piece you just used for that matter) and dip the paper in the bowl of water, until it's good and wet. Let the excess water drip off, and shake off any excess or just blot it down once against the towel... the paper should be quite moist, but NOT dripping wet... Now, sanding the cone the SAME WAY you have been doing it (small circles, LIGHT pressure, rotating the cone constantly) sand it with the damp sandpaper... as you sand, you'll see that you're leaving behind a thin layer of wet "sanding mud", a mix of sanded off primer particles and water from the sandpaper. As you sand, this will get thicker and thicker as more and more particles are produced and the water slowly evaporates. You can dip a fingertip in the water and put a drop on the cone and sand over it, which will keep the paper and sanding mud moist... after you've sanded a minute or two, things will be getting pretty dry. Take a damp paper towel (not dripping wet) and wipe off the sanding mud from the surface of the cone. Dip the paper in water a few times, rub the grit with your thumb, and the paint particles will rub loose from the surface, dip the sandpaper again and rub it underwater to release all the trapped paint particles from the grit of the paper... then shake off the clean paper, daub it gently on the towel once if it's too wet, and continue sanding... this doesn't take as long as it sounds either... work your way all the way around and up the cone to the tip, and BE VERY CAREFUL AT THE TIP-- the sanding is concentrated, remember! Now, wipe the cone off with the damp paper towel of any sanding mud, and dry it off with a dry paper towel. Hold the cone up to the light, say a brightly lit window, or a bright light across the room... look at the GLINT of reflected light off the surface of the cone... gently turn the cone in your fingers as you watch the reflection of the bright light... the reflected light should be smooth, unbroken, with no dark spots or waves that indicate an irregular surface, pits, voids, or anything else... holding it up to the light is the only way to inspect it, because it should be SO smooth you can't FEEL ANY imperfections at this point. The cone should look perfectly smooth, like a plastic cone, or even better than a plastic cone. No sanding scratches or grain should be visible AT ALL... If you see anything you want smoother, grab the 400 grit, dip it in the water and shake it off or daub it on the towel, and damp-sand that spot again-- but DO NOT sand too much or IN ONE SPOT-- keep it moving and sanding small circles! You don't want to ruin it by sanding in a flat spot now! Better a tiny imperfection than a flat spot!

More to come... OL JR :)
 
Continued...

Now, let it dry overnight, and you should be ready for paint. If it's cool and damp, I'd let it dry the next day and night before painting, just to be sure. Reattach it to your paint stick if you want to paint it separate from the rocket, which I often do, especially if the cone is to come off in flight to eject the parachute. Painting has some tricks too-- move in smooth, even strokes, go a little faster than you think you should-- better to put paint on a little too thin than too thick and get a run or sag or drip!! Keep the can or gun an even distance from the part, and start spraying just before you get to the part, and keep spraying just past it. Don't paint in the same spot repeatedly-- keep the part turning so the paint is being applied at different angles and different areas... give it time to tack up between coats, anywhere from 2-5 to about 30 minutes in most cases. FOLLOW THE PAINT CAN INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER (until you gain experience and know WHERE and WHEN you can deviate!) TAKE YOUR TIME AND DO A GOOD JOB-- DO NOT RUSH!!! Your surface is as smooth and perfect as it will ever be when you finish damp sanding it... Remember, PAINT DOES NOT HIDE IMPERFECTIONS, IT ACCENTUATES THEM!!!! There is NO SUBSTITUTE for excellent surface preparation-- IOW, the surface should look as good as damp sanded primer as you want it to look painted... if the surface is crappy when primered, it will look MUCH WORSE when painted... NOT BETTER!!! Paint does NOT cover up imperfections... it makes them MORE APPARENT!!! This is probably THE #1 misunderstood thing by most people painting stuff... that paint "hides stuff". IT DOESN'T!!!

Good painting skills are something else that develop with practice... and the results are well worth it. It's cheap enough to learn with rattle cans and cardboard or poster board, so don't be afraid to practice-- or repaint the lawn mower or a lawn chair or something like that... car painters often have an old hood or door that they can practice on, to set up their spray guns and make sure everything's working great and they're "warmed up" before starting to paint that $50,000 '57 Chevy collector car with paint that may cost $900 bucks a gallon (or MORE!) So don't be afraid to practice!! PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT!!!

You'll get better and faster as you practice and build more stuff... don't be discouraged, and DON'T RUSH. This is probably the biggest mistake young people make... I was a teenager too, I know how it is, but rushing NEVER helps anything; it usually screws up stuff and makes it THAT MUCH HARDER AND LONGER to get it done in the end...

There are pics of this stuff in a lot of my build threads, especially the Zooch "beta-build" threads I do as test builds for Wes...

Later and good luck, and lemme know if you need anything clarified!!! OL JR :)
 
Next I know Ill be told the Saturn V is white because of frost :pP
Nice model!

No, Saturn V was painted white... but yeah, frost did form on the first stage LOX tank, and to a lesser extent on the second stage and third stage (because they were better insulated for liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen-- LH2 is MUCH colder than LO2-- -453 degrees for LH2 versus -390 for LO2 IIRC... LH2 will actually cause AIR to liquefy and dribble down like "sweat" (condensation) on a glass of iced tea... not good since liquid oxygen in liquid air is extremely flammable...

The first stage LOX tank (above the corrugated intertank section just above the black-striped kerosene tank on bottom wasn't particularly well insulated-- it didn't need to be... the frost basically insulates the tank once it forms...

If you ever look at Redstone at liftoff, you'll see the one half or the other of the "UNITED STATES" is covered over with frost from the LOX tank and cannot be seen... Atlas too had a pure stainless-steel look to it when it was moved to the pad unfueled, but would frost over and "turn white" when the LOX was pumped in...

The R-7 is powered by kerosene and liquid oxygen, so its tanks frost over the same way... both stages on the R-7 are kerosene powered, the boosters, core, and second stage... just like SpaceX's Falcon 9...

Later! OL JR :)
 
Continued...

Now, let it dry overnight, and you should be ready for paint. If it's cool and damp, I'd let it dry the next day and night before painting, just to be sure. Reattach it to your paint stick if you want to paint it separate from the rocket, which I often do, especially if the cone is to come off in flight to eject the parachute. Painting has some tricks too-- move in smooth, even strokes, go a little faster than you think you should-- better to put paint on a little too thin than too thick and get a run or sag or drip!! Keep the can or gun an even distance from the part, and start spraying just before you get to the part, and keep spraying just past it. Don't paint in the same spot repeatedly-- keep the part turning so the paint is being applied at different angles and different areas... give it time to tack up between coats, anywhere from 2-5 to about 30 minutes in most cases. FOLLOW THE PAINT CAN INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER (until you gain experience and know WHERE and WHEN you can deviate!) TAKE YOUR TIME AND DO A GOOD JOB-- DO NOT RUSH!!! Your surface is as smooth and perfect as it will ever be when you finish damp sanding it... Remember, PAINT DOES NOT HIDE IMPERFECTIONS, IT ACCENTUATES THEM!!!! There is NO SUBSTITUTE for excellent surface preparation-- IOW, the surface should look as good as damp sanded primer as you want it to look painted... if the surface is crappy when primered, it will look MUCH WORSE when painted... NOT BETTER!!! Paint does NOT cover up imperfections... it makes them MORE APPARENT!!! This is probably THE #1 misunderstood thing by most people painting stuff... that paint "hides stuff". IT DOESN'T!!!

Good painting skills are something else that develop with practice... and the results are well worth it. It's cheap enough to learn with rattle cans and cardboard or poster board, so don't be afraid to practice-- or repaint the lawn mower or a lawn chair or something like that... car painters often have an old hood or door that they can practice on, to set up their spray guns and make sure everything's working great and they're "warmed up" before starting to paint that $50,000 '57 Chevy collector car with paint that may cost $900 bucks a gallon (or MORE!) So don't be afraid to practice!! PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT!!!

You'll get better and faster as you practice and build more stuff... don't be discouraged, and DON'T RUSH. This is probably the biggest mistake young people make... I was a teenager too, I know how it is, but rushing NEVER helps anything; it usually screws up stuff and makes it THAT MUCH HARDER AND LONGER to get it done in the end...

There are pics of this stuff in a lot of my build threads, especially the Zooch "beta-build" threads I do as test builds for Wes...

Later and good luck, and lemme know if you need anything clarified!!! OL JR :)


Whenever I see one of your "Mega posts" I go make a quick cup of tea before cracking into it :eek:
Thanks for this great advice! I had actually seen Elmers wood filler on a commercial last night before I went to sleep and was like "note to self get that crap Im sure its useful"
as for the super glue, Im no stranger to glueing my fingers together. It SUCKS! KTesh on the forums here has even told me it can burn you if dropped on a sensitive area. (He burned his stomach with it)
Thanks for this response :) Ill be sure to use this next time I have balsa parts :))
 
No, Saturn V was painted white... but yeah, frost did form on the first stage LOX tank, and to a lesser extent on the second stage and third stage (because they were better insulated for liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen-- LH2 is MUCH colder than LO2-- -453 degrees for LH2 versus -390 for LO2 IIRC... LH2 will actually cause AIR to liquefy and dribble down like "sweat" (condensation) on a glass of iced tea... not good since liquid oxygen in liquid air is extremely flammable...

The first stage LOX tank (above the corrugated intertank section just above the black-striped kerosene tank on bottom wasn't particularly well insulated-- it didn't need to be... the frost basically insulates the tank once it forms...

If you ever look at Redstone at liftoff, you'll see the one half or the other of the "UNITED STATES" is covered over with frost from the LOX tank and cannot be seen... Atlas too had a pure stainless-steel look to it when it was moved to the pad unfueled, but would frost over and "turn white" when the LOX was pumped in...

The R-7 is powered by kerosene and liquid oxygen, so its tanks frost over the same way... both stages on the R-7 are kerosene powered, the boosters, core, and second stage... just like SpaceX's Falcon 9...

Later! OL JR :)

Not sure what rocket it was.. but I remember seeing a launch video, and as the rocket was rising you could see "smoke rings" of frost around the exterior of it, it made it look like it had saturn rings. I think it was either a Mercury Redstone or a Saturn V, either way it was very surreal looking :)
 
Whenever I see one of your "Mega posts" I go make a quick cup of tea before cracking into it :eek:
Thanks for this great advice! I had actually seen Elmers wood filler on a commercial last night before I went to sleep and was like "note to self get that crap Im sure its useful"
as for the super glue, Im no stranger to glueing my fingers together. It SUCKS! KTesh on the forums here has even told me it can burn you if dropped on a sensitive area. (He burned his stomach with it)
Thanks for this response :) Ill be sure to use this next time I have balsa parts :))

I just got back from Hobby lobby and picked up all of the items you suggested in this post. Im prepared!
 
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