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Drama?
AeroTech Open Thread
- Thread starter ATGM
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You should do some homework before you make statements like that.
Thanks, I appreciate your kindness.
rfjustin
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And remember to support your local vendor(s) please. Give AT a go, you wont regret it. Been flying their loads for 25 years.
boatgeek
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Another thing to consider is the variety of loads available for that case. The discontinued loads are mostly relatively niche products. If the case you want to buy has half a dozen loads available, then it's highly likely that you'll still be able to fly that case in the future as Aerotech adjusts their product line to the market. For example, the AT 29/40-120 case has 8 different reloads available and the 29/180 case hass 4 different reloads. Since these have a wide variety of loads available and they're "entry level" cases that are many people's first high power cases, there's a lot of demand for these cases and the loads that go into them. That makes it highly unlikely that the cases will become obsolete.
Those 29/40-120 reloads have different delays available as well. Radically different performance on different rockets (or the same rocket, if you build strong enough).
Note that all of Aerotech's reloads have drillable delays, so you really only need the longest one.
I didn’t know that, thanks for the info.
This can be a somewhat nebulous topic... I got into a discussion with our RSO about this... and the upshot here is that IF the delay is meant to be drilled (eg. as in the RMS hpr-style reloads or for example, the 24/60 F63 and F51 which have 10 second drillable delays), then that's considered in compliance. Otherwise certified motors with specific delays should not be modified.
My experience trying to mod say, 24/40 delays has met with VERY mixed results (as verified by my altimeter 3 event recording). As I don't have the 29/40-120 I cannot speak to how that would go. While it should be simple enough in principle, I've drilled out 2 seconds or more out of a 7 second 24/40 delay only to have my altimeter 3 show ejection occurring after a 7 sec. delay... (and yes I put the drilled end TOWARDS the propellant grain yada yada yada)
because of that, I've pretty much given up on modding a 24/40 delay.
I don't have any data, but I have noticed any extremely long or short delays in 24/40, 24/60, or 29/40-120 reloads after drilling. The RMS delay drilling tool is intended for all RMS motors 18-38mm (they all have the same diameter delay element, I believe). Adjusting RMS delays does not affect their certification and is encouraged by the manufacturer.
https://aerotech-rocketry.com/produ...7642-85cb913cc1d5?_pos=3&_sid=6101535f1&_ss=r
The 24/60 and 24/40 delays are most definitely not the exact same diameter as 29 mm RMS delays... the delays from dms and the 29 mm RMS fit precisely. The 24/60 and 24/40 delays are not as wide. What i do know is modding 24/40 delays yields mixed results for me... based on my altimeter event data. As far as I know, I haven't seen any definitive guidance on the matter... it'd be nice to see some from somewhere. Until I do, the only delays I'll modify will be those clearly intended to be.
Until I do I will not be changing a delay that doesn't explicitly requires it.
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The product page for the drilling tool isn't definitive enough?
The hobbyline cases all have the same diameter delays (just checked my own reloads). The 29 HP RMS delay appears to be slightly wider, so you're right, they're not all the same size. Close enough for the delay tool to work fine, though. Do what you want for yourself, but don't try to imply that people are breaking the safety code by drilling hobbyline delays with no evidence besides inaccuracy (the rules for which allow quite a bit of latitude).
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It's not from NAR. I'm not trying to imply anything... just what my discussions with our RSO came to. I have not seen anything from NAR mentioning anything about the matter.
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Fair enough, gotta obey the RSO on the field. But there's no evidence I've seen that points to hobbyline delays not being adjustable, so I don't want others to be confused.
A BIG NOTE HERE... THERE ARE (2) Aerotech delay drilling tools.
1) The RMS and Hobbyline RELOAD KITS use the one linked above and here:
https://aerotech-rocketry.com/produ...7642-85cb913cc1d5?_pos=3&_sid=6101535f1&_ss=r
2) The second Tool is for the "DMS" series of single use motors. This is NOT for any other type of single use motors, or Reloads. ONLY "DMS" motors:
https://aerotech-rocketry.com/produ...77e9-093c84bb0508?_pos=1&_sid=887e42b84&_ss=r
The Quest Q-Jets, AeroTech Econojet, Economax, Enerjet, etc. are NOT adjustable per instructions.
1) The RMS and Hobbyline RELOAD KITS use the one linked above and here:
https://aerotech-rocketry.com/produ...7642-85cb913cc1d5?_pos=3&_sid=6101535f1&_ss=r
2) The second Tool is for the "DMS" series of single use motors. This is NOT for any other type of single use motors, or Reloads. ONLY "DMS" motors:
https://aerotech-rocketry.com/produ...77e9-093c84bb0508?_pos=1&_sid=887e42b84&_ss=r
The Quest Q-Jets, AeroTech Econojet, Economax, Enerjet, etc. are NOT adjustable per instructions.
Yes, also note that the word "universal" in the description doesn't make it universal. It is only for the DMS series.
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In this context, I think “Universal” means universal for all loads in that product line but not others. So correct, not truly universal, but with an understandable (if initially confusing) intended meaning.
Yep. It has caused confuzzlement in the past.
A few more notes:
1) There actually is a 3rd tool. This is for 54mm RMS motors: (sorry I forgot about it.)
https://aerotech-rocketry.com/produ...84f6-d50d2551ff7a?_pos=1&_sid=27cdb823a&_ss=r
2) The website has a description of use which is not possible to do for the Universal Delay Drilling Tool:
"As is always the case with drilled DMS delays, the delay element should be installed in the motor with the drilled end facing the propellant grains (or away from the ejection charge) for best delay accuracy."
@AeroTech the Delay element in DMS motors is "built in" and not removable. So by design, the drilled end is away from propellant. This description on website should be updated.
1) There actually is a 3rd tool. This is for 54mm RMS motors: (sorry I forgot about it.)
https://aerotech-rocketry.com/produ...84f6-d50d2551ff7a?_pos=1&_sid=27cdb823a&_ss=r
2) The website has a description of use which is not possible to do for the Universal Delay Drilling Tool:
"As is always the case with drilled DMS delays, the delay element should be installed in the motor with the drilled end facing the propellant grains (or away from the ejection charge) for best delay accuracy."
@AeroTech the Delay element in DMS motors is "built in" and not removable. So by design, the drilled end is away from propellant. This description on website should be updated.
tjsnakez
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I don’t fly DMS, so I don’t have much of an opinion there. But I’ve drilled delays on 24mm-54mm reloads and it is always spot on. I do it the old school way with a 3/16” drill bit and a machinist ruler.
For people using the delay tools, I would say: be sure to let the drill bit do the work by applying minimal pressure and take your time. The cleaner the hole, the more accurate it will be.
I’ve also noticed some people just choose the wrong delay and blame it on drilling.
For people using the delay tools, I would say: be sure to let the drill bit do the work by applying minimal pressure and take your time. The cleaner the hole, the more accurate it will be.
I’ve also noticed some people just choose the wrong delay and blame it on drilling.
I only (at least for now) fly DMS motors. I would say the adjusted delays are always close. Like you said, I do take my time and make the adjustments, then look for a clean cut. (Best you can down inside the charge well.)
Remember delay times can be +/- 20% anyhow, so your adjusting something with a very wide tolerance already.
Remember delay times can be +/- 20% anyhow, so your adjusting something with a very wide tolerance already.
K750ST, TWA/Bong on the 13th???
PLEASE!?
Ohhhh fine, just for you!!
Lies!!! But also truths.......
NO!!! But also yes.....
Then you better plan on rearranging as I am attending and the K750ST is coming with me!
Good luck. We want photos.
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No. Videos…
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Justin will get some video.
rfjustin
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Not quite, photos only. I don't do video any longer, too much of a time vampire.
rharshberger
Well-Known Member
H
ow many have actually checked to make sure their delay drilling tools is "zeroed". The RMS RDDT tool hasxa proceedure for making sure the drill bit is the proper length.
Every time I use it!
I check every time, because my drilling tools came uncalibrated and I learned from the beginning. The DMS tool now comes with a 3D-printed piece to calibrate it.
Right!
I store the 3D printed calibration sleeve with the tool. When I pull it out its less than a second to "check" zero.
[ I was one of the ones that pushed for the independent UDDT calibration tool. (3D printed thing) Prior to that, the instructions needed the 18-38 RDDT, to "zero" the UDDT. Since I don't do RMS (yet) I don't have or need that tool. Again, thank you to AeroTech for listening to customers. ]
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