Large electric motors, batteries and vehicles
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You're in the wrong thread. If you want to talk about subsidies and tax credits, try this one:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/the-politics-of-incentives.172418/
KC3KNM
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We keep fossil fuels artificially cheap, which increases their use and removes funding and effort from alternatives. If gas is cheap why replace it, right? It doesn’t matter how the subsides are applied, we dump wayyyy too much money into an industry that makes insane profits to begin with. But I’ll leave it alone here… feel free to respond to the other thread, I guess.
An yet there are numerous posts in this thread touting the renewal of EV subsidies and how wonderful they are all without a comment about moving those comments to another thread.
No worries I’ll leave it alone. As I stated earlier the obvious answer to the question made it more of a rhetorical question.
FWIW I do find The technology of EV’s fascinating and am impressed with how quick they have progressed.
You dodged the question which asked for specifics examples unique to the industry and are simply making broad based generalizations.
Funkworks
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Just to be clear:
This thread is for news about the technical progress of batteries and new products, anywhere in the world.
If you want to argue about which technologies governments support and why, it's the other thread.
Don't expect too much of me when I'm on a break!
Hopefully you're finding out about interesting products in here. Post if you find battery products we might haven't seen yet. Thanks.In case it isn't obvious, I'm heavily biased FOR new and creative technical products (including model rockets, which I can afford). Long live engineering and R&D. And this thread focuses on the particular technology of batteries, electric motors, and what products they can allow. That's it.
Another flying car:
https://en.skydrive2020.com
ThirstyBarbarian
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I think I’m the one who posted about new subsidies in the new bill that’s under consideration and triggered the off-topic discussion. So, I’m sorry about that and will keep it in mind for the future.
Not sure about over there but down here they don't get subsidised. They do generate an enormous amount of tax for the government. 38% of the pump price is tax. Price here peaked recently at $2.34 PER LITER ($8.90/gal)
KC3KNM
Probably Wrong
the guys on the powrchair/wheelchair are all converting their chairs over to LiPo4 batteries since they have a 10 year life span. I googled up this article on why cars may all be using them as no mining of cobalt and nickle are used.
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/07/0...atteries-may-be-the-key-to-the-ev-revolution/
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/07/0...atteries-may-be-the-key-to-the-ev-revolution/
Yeah, I wonder if lithium ion phospate aren’t a good alternative especially for the much-desired lower-priced EVs. They don’t have as high an energy density as lithium ion/lithium ion polymer types and their terminal voltage is lower, so more cells in a given series string are needed to get to the nominal 400 (or now 800) volts of EV power trains but they are also less fussy/fragile in a number of ways.
I’d be happy to have an EV with, say, a 200-250 mile range for most all my uses at the price point of @jderimig‘s example Toyota Camry.
Some Teslas (I think Chinese market only, but I could be wrong about that) are using lithium iron phosphate cells now.
That article is two years old. One of the things it mentions is Hyundai (and by extension, Kia) and their 100,000 mile battery warranty. I’m in the early stages of them hopefully making good on that warranty for my Soul EV. We shall see how it turns out.
I’d be happy to have an EV with, say, a 200-250 mile range for most all my uses at the price point of @jderimig‘s example Toyota Camry.
Some Teslas (I think Chinese market only, but I could be wrong about that) are using lithium iron phosphate cells now.
That article is two years old. One of the things it mentions is Hyundai (and by extension, Kia) and their 100,000 mile battery warranty. I’m in the early stages of them hopefully making good on that warranty for my Soul EV. We shall see how it turns out.
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I am aware of the subsidies to fossil fuel producers in the natural gas and coal sector. That is where those subsidies are going. The article talks of fossil fuels generically, but specifically mentioning coal and gas. Petrol (what you call gasoline) is not mentioned. Don't get me started on the subsidies to the energy producers that export our product and leave us short of natural gas here. Spot prices for energy are currently up around four or five times regular costs on the wholesale market and are sending companies that rely on gas to the wall. Coal was, and still is one of our major exports to China so the subsidies there are likely earning a reasonable amount of tax for the government.
Our petrol industry in Australia is quite small and reading the article you linked, and some others, I could only find $302 million required to bring forward the "introduction of better fuels" from 2027 to 2024. The government recently increased the required amount of fuel to be stockpiled so there is a large chunk of funding provided for boosting assurance of supply. That would be a significant part of the "fossil fuel" subsidies alluded to in that article.
Putting things in perspective, we only have two refineries in Australia. A friend of my brother owned both of them about five years back.
I think it was about 10 years ago that there was an article trying to get people to invest in a company that was supposedly on the forefront of getting all of the oil out of Australia, as they said that they had found upon initial geological testing that there was more oil underneath Australia than about anywhere else and it was completely out on the middle of nowhere. It was going to be hard to get, but when they did get access to it, everybody was naturally going to be super rich. I never heard anymore about it.
We do have a fair bit of oil but for reasons I don't know we tie the price to that of Singapore, which is tied to world prices. We could have it much cheaper if somebody deemed it worth doing for the hoi polloi.
KC3KNM
Probably Wrong
The only point I’m trying (and failing) to make is that it’s absurd to me to have someone get upset over EV tax credits or subsidies aimed at renewables when across the world we subsidize fossil fuels to absurd degrees all while they’re taking in massive profits and jacking up the planet.
This isn’t the place for this conversation as previously mentioned… feel free to move to the other thread.
KC3KNM
Probably Wrong
It’ll be okay bud, don’t worry.
As I wrote earlier, petrol price here peaked recently at $2.34 PER LITER ($8.90/gal). That will probably encourage some people to electric.
Here's an article from The New Yorker about creating sounds for EVs when they are being driven slowly in order to alert pedestrians that something is nearby. I really hadn't thought about this before.
www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/08/what-should-a-nine-thousand-pound-electric-vehicle-sound-like?
www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/08/what-should-a-nine-thousand-pound-electric-vehicle-sound-like?
On another note a good friend of mine called me yesterday and told my he had just bought a Chevy Bolt EUV. He should get it in a couple of weeks. I can't wait to drive it.
Oh I’m not worried buddy. Not my nature. Actually I found the additional hypocrisy to be quite funny.It’ll be okay bud, don’t worry.
Funkworks
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Yes LFP are lower density, have a longer life (more cycles), an even lower risk of failure, and they should be suitable for most cars. I also think they're used in the Chinese Model 3, and I wonder why they're not used more. Maybe they are. Seems like most people (incl. me) would be fine with an LFP.
Maybe nickel, cobalt and manganese batteries are preferred because they allow higher end cars with greater torque and higher profit margins. I'll keep an eye out for articles discussing LFPs.
Thanks for keeping it clean. It's hard to make the point that battery science exists like any other science, irrespective of "the outside world". Not limited to one country or to one application, and not dependent on a particular group. Just appreciative of any supporter.
How I see this thread (what I'm interested in anyway):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_battery
And we report on how that history evolves.
Another electric boat:
https://xshore.com/eelex-8000
Largest scale grid services in Australia, with a good explanation of grid "inertia":
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/08/01/world-1st-tesla-batteries-providing-inertia-services-at-scale/
That's interesting....in that my 2016 Soul EV makes a semi-musical sound outside when moving slowly in either direction already. I wonder how the response to this reported 2020 deadline is different.
MClark
Well-Known Member
The Eelex boat
From their website
“From $329,000 excluding VAT”
From their website
“From $329,000 excluding VAT”
I just finished this & found it quite interesting.
Funkworks
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The Volvo Group has started working on having a large-scale battery factory in Sweden to support its expansion of electric trucks, electric buses, and electric construction equipment production
https://www.volvogroup.com/en/news-...o-establish-plant-for-battery-production.html
The Volvo Group is not to be confused with Volvo Cars, which has been owned by China’s Geely for over a decade now.
Beautiful short videos from Oak Ridge National Labs!
https://www.volvogroup.com/en/news-...o-establish-plant-for-battery-production.html
The Volvo Group is not to be confused with Volvo Cars, which has been owned by China’s Geely for over a decade now.
Beautiful short videos from Oak Ridge National Labs!
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I ran across this. Looks very interesting. I hope they can pull it off.
www.tweaktown.com/news/87746/new-hyperloop-train-will-almost-break-the-speed-of-sound/index.html
www.tweaktown.com/news/87746/new-hyperloop-train-will-almost-break-the-speed-of-sound/index.html
Funkworks
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I ran across this. Looks very interesting. I hope they can pull it off.
www.tweaktown.com/news/87746/new-hyperloop-train-will-almost-break-the-speed-of-sound/index.html
"In a vacuum tube train system, pressurized passenger and cargo vehicles travel in a low-pressure tube environment, driven by linear induction motors and air compressors, at speeds exceeding 1000 km/h."
https://www.transpod.com/about-transpod/
One of many introductions to linear induction motors:
https://www.h2wtech.com/blog/linear-induction-motor-how-it-works
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_induction_motor#Uses
It's odd that they call it a hyperloop, but all the artistic drawings look like a monorail.I ran across this. Looks very interesting. I hope they can pull it off.
www.tweaktown.com/news/87746/new-hyperloop-train-will-almost-break-the-speed-of-sound/index.html
