Large electric motors, batteries and vehicles

[boatgeek]

This isn't strictly speaking a motor, battery, or vehicle, but the first offshore wind turbine components are heading out to the field for the Vineyard Wind project. In the picture below, note the extremely tight clearances getting the cargo barge through the hurricane gate in New Bedford, MA. For an idea of the scale, the barge is 400' long and the central nacelle with the generator (not really visible behind the blades) is about the same size and weight as the tug at the stern of the barge. I had a few small roles in this overall project.


Photo credit: Vineyard Wind

https://www.workboat.com/wind/vineyard-wind-and-foss-begin-moving-turbine-components-offshore

 

[david davy]

It all comes down to energy density. The amount of energy contained in a gallon of gasoline which weighs approximately 8 1/3lbs is vastly greater than what can be stored in a battery weighing the same.
Now the efficiency of an electric motor vs an ICE helps offset that difference somewhat but at the end of it all 20 gallons of gasoline can get a modern mid-sized sedan between 400 to 500 miles down the road and all that fuel weighs about 165lbs when the tank is full and it goes down as the fuel is used.

A battery big enough to give that same sized vehicle that same range weighs in around 1,000lbs+ and it doesn't get any lighter as the energy is drained.
1,000lbs is more than my cars 6cyl engine and transaxle weigh combined and you can throw-in the 165lbs of gasoline on top of that.
Think of it this way; imagine if your cars gas tank weighed half a ton.

I agree with your post. I have no use for a EV anything.

 

[kuririn]

Just bought an electric kick scooter.
Faster rocket recovery on big fields and less energy spent walking long distances.
So I can return faster and launch more rockets.
Yippee!

 

[Funkworks]

I’m still living by the way. Just not worthy of being called a rocketeer anymore Found this story that might interest fans of kinetic energy :

“The terrorists recognized me from a distance of 10 meters. In addition to their Kalashnikovs, they had a machine gun in the battle that fired bullets of a larger diameter. They didn’t realize it was an electric car, so they shot at the front, hoping to hit the engine that wasn’t there, and at the back, attempting to ignite the non-existent fuel. They shot my tires. I pressed the gas, and they started chasing me,”

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-performance-vs-hamas-terrorist-photos-video/

 

[Greg Furtman]

A US company has come up with a way to harvest more lithium per gallon by 3x but by using different technologies that together produce very little waste. The byproducts of each step fuel the process before it.

 

[cwbullet]

A US company has come up with a way to harvest more lithium per gallon by 3x but by using different technologies that together produce very little waste. The byproducts of each fuel the process before it.

That solves one problem. Now we need enough chargers.

 

[boatgeek]

Interesting news out of Texas. The power companies there have responded to the reliability issues* on the generation side and record demand with battery storage, like 2.5 GW over the past 5 years, most in the last 2. That has kept the grid stable over the summer heat waves, even where power plants dropped out. Part of what makes the economic case in Texas is that the power price levels are pretty predictable--there's lows in the night (low demand) and midday (high solar output) and highs in the evenings (high demand). Of the articles below, the Scientific American one is from August and has more info, the other is what pointed me there and has more info about the summer as a whole. Also worth noting that power companies are talking about how great batteries are because a lot of capacity can be installed very quickly and relatively cheaply.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/...oast-texas-batteries-keep-power-grid-humming/https://www.utilitydive.com/news/battery-storage-texas-reliability-grid-benefits/695982/
* Let's head off the "unreliable renewables" slur at the pass and remind folks that the winter blackouts were primarily due to gas lines freezing up because the free market determined that the requisite amount of heat tape wasn't worth it.

 

[OverTheTop]

What happens when you crush lithium batteries.

 

[bjphoenix]

I watched this long video about converting from fossil fuels to electric power. He has a lot of numbers and they don't mean a lot to me. It appears that someone will have to build a lot of stuff in the next 20 years- a lot of power plants, a lot of wind turbines, etc. I don't have any way of knowing how accurate the numbers are. It appears that they could be very far off and the conclusions would be the same.

Here is a quote from the presenter which appears to be an understatement: "I'm going to say this probably isn't going to go as planned."

(If the link doesn't work you can search youtube for the video number: MBVmnKuBocc )

 

[Greg Furtman]

I watched this long video about converting from fossil fuels to electric power. He has a lot of numbers and they don't mean a lot to me. It appears that someone will have to build a lot of stuff in the next 20 years- a lot of power plants, a lot of wind turbines, etc. I don't have any way of knowing how accurate the numbers are. It appears that they could be very far off and the conclusions would be the same.

Here is a quote from the presenter which appears to be an understatement: "I'm going to say this probably isn't going to go as planned."

(If the link doesn't work you can search youtube for the video number: MBVmnKuBocc )

I've searched YouTube for the video with no success. What was the exact name of the video and the presenter.

 

[CalebJ]

I think this is it...
link to video

 

[Greg Furtman]

That worked. Thanks.

 

[kuririn]

This was already discussed over a year ago.
Let's not rehash old threads again.
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...on-on-the-replacement-of-fossil-fuels.174915/

 

[WillMarchant]

Electra.aero is run by John Langford, same guy that owns Estes Industries, so more than worthy to post in a rocket forum.

The Electra.aero demonstrator just had a successful flight: https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/hybrid-estol-demonstrator-flies/

 

[Grog6]

The only reason we haven't needed a massive project to generate more power is that America took 3 Gaseous Diffusion plants, one each at Oak ridge tn, Paducah Kentucky, and Portsmouth Ohio. Each one of those took a huge amount of power each; each one used more than any one source: 18 billion kilowatt-hours annually, and demand peaking at more than 2,000 megawatts..
They left the grid starting in 84, and are all cleanup sites now.

 

[kuririn]

Jetson ONE ‘flying car’ becomes first eVTOL certified for flight in Italy​

https://electrek.co/guides/jetson-one/

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[Tyeeking]

Jetson ONE ‘flying car’ becomes first eVTOL certified for flight in Italy​

https://electrek.co/guides/jetson-one/

​

Those things look like an absolute blast. If I wasn’t so into boats I’d probably get one.

 

[John Kemker]

Jetson ONE ‘flying car’ becomes first eVTOL certified for flight in Italy​

https://electrek.co/guides/jetson-one/

​

That would have made finding the Goblin so much easier!

Maybe a club purchase?

 

[whoster69]

I bought my EV about 4 1/2 years ago. I was hesitant at first, but was getting sick of paying high prices for gas. I really wanted to go with hydrogen. After doing a lot of research, I decided hydrogen just wasn't going to work for a lot of reasons, one of the biggest being lack of infrastructure. EVs offered several benefits including simpler design, much better fuel economy, and much, much longer life expectancy for the motor. At the time, Tesla was way out in front so it was clear that they were the way to go (besides, they had the charging infrastructure that everyone else lacked). We ended up buying a model 3 and while it was expensive up front, $58,000 for long-range full self-driving (FSD), we got $10,000 back in tax rebates and over the last 4.5 years have saved about $15,000 in fuel costs over the average fossil vehicle so our overall cost keeps getting smaller. Meanwhile, our vehicle keeps getting better due to free over-the-air updates. On top of that, the performance rivals that of some supercars. It is truly amazing and is by far the best vehicle purchase I have ever made.

I charge at home 99% of the time. It takes about 1 - 3 hours to charge at home depending on how far I've driven that day. I do my charging overnight, so I pull in at home and the next day, my car is ready to go, having been topped off from our solar-based batteries. When I am on the road, I use superchargers. When you learn how to best charge, you can go from about 20% to 80% in about 15 minutes at a supercharger. Before I bought my vehicle I thought charging on the road would be a serious negative to owning an EV and for some EVs it might be. For mine it isn't. I barely have time to stop at a supercharger and use the restroom before my car is ready to go again. Charging isn't an issue at all.

I'm excited to see more car companies becoming competitive in the EV market and more tech innovation (particularly with batteries). The batteries are getting smaller, lighter and more energy dense. There are some really interesting new battery technologies just coming to market now and I hope other companies will challenge Tesla in the EV market.

 

[jderimig]

over the last 4.5 years have saved about $15,000 in fuel costs over the average fossil vehicle so our overall cost keeps getting smaller.

Wow! Very interesting post. To say that much in fuel costs you must put alot of miles on your vehicle.

What has been the average cost of gasoline $/gal locally for you over the last 4.5 years?
What is the cost of electricity where you live $/kw?
How many miles have you driven the Telsa over the 4.5 years? How is it holding up?

 

[NTP2]

I’m still living by the way. Just not worthy of being called a rocketeer anymore Found this story that might interest fans of kinetic energy :

“The terrorists recognized me from a distance of 10 meters. In addition to their Kalashnikovs, they had a machine gun in the battle that fired bullets of a larger diameter. They didn’t realize it was an electric car, so they shot at the front, hoping to hit the engine that wasn’t there, and at the back, attempting to ignite the non-existent fuel. They shot my tires. I pressed the gas, and they started chasing me,”

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-performance-vs-hamas-terrorist-photos-video/

The tank of the future!!!

 

[BEC]

Wow! Very interesting post. To say that much in fuel costs you must put alot of miles on your vehicle.

What has been the average cost of gasoline $/gal locally for you over the last 4.5 years?
What is the cost of electricity where you live $/kw?
How many miles have you driven the Telsa over the 4.5 years? How is it holding up?

Yeah, some of those numbers look a little optimistic. At $3.50 a gallon that's nearly 1000 gallons of gas a year or about four 20 gallon tanks of gas a month. And clearly the cost of power has to be subtracted from that savings. I hope he gives us some specifics.

I spend ~$40/month added to my electricity bill (just comparing what it was before to what it was after) to run our Kia Soul EV to the tune of 900-1000 miles a month. If it was its gas sibling that would be about $120/month in gas, so I'm actually saving about $80/month in direct operating costs, or about $6000 over the 6 1/4 years we've owned it using that same $3.50/gallon gas cost. And there's the reduced maintenance costs (zero oil changes, zero fluid filter replacements and so on — it doesn't have enough miles on it yet for spark plugs since they go so long in modern engines). One set of tires so far (not long ago and not at an unreasonable time for an ICE Soul).

YMMV....as always.