Vendors in decline?

[hball55]

Yes, it's pretty clear.

What is not clear is how some scrap-booking project or interpretative dance class for dolphins gets funded.

ROFL, I see the irony. It's too bad Kickstarter doesn't allow for a more decent period to collect funds. Afterall, it looks like they're there to help "cottage industries," only their policies are making it impossible for cottage industries to take advantage of their help.

 

[Eric1]

That Dance Class for Dolphins was the Smizzle!
I ran a school for baby fish once. Do you know how hard it is to get them to change direction at the same time?
Of Course, I had the guppy class, they are the dumbest fish to teach. Now the Tetras are amazing!
They practically teach themselves.

 

[hball55]

That Dance Class for Dolphins was the Smizzle!
I ran a school for baby fish once. Do you know how hard it is to get them to change direction at the same time?
Of Course, I had the guppy class, they are the dumbest fish to teach. Now the Tetras are amazing!
They practically teach themselves.

That is until you drop an African Cichlid in the tank, then it's every fish for itself and the cichlid has dinner.

 

[hball55]

Honestly, these last four years have been manuals or online articles...the last sci-fi book I read was Starship Troopers about four years ago. My favorite sci-fi is the White Mountain trilogy, even though it's written for young adults, which I was then. Two of my favorite books of fiction are The Odyssey and The Fountainhead, I can't really think of a favorite non-fiction, other than The Greatest Generation and Rocket Boys. I like bad jokes too, did you see the T-Rex one? I debated it for a while before posting it though.

Honestly, you really like the Fountainhead? I just don't buy into the idea that talented people should be treated differently than the rest. True, I don't believe we should all conform, but Ayn Rand draws it out to the point that people of genius should be able to live by a different set of rules. That idea has been used to treat a genius who commits murder to be treated different than the rest of society . . . so much so, that some adherents of Ayn Rand say the genius' life is worth more than the victim and therefore shouldn't be held responsible for his/her act.

As for the movie version, it was one the most over-acted movies I have ever seen. I really like Patricia Neal but she was comical. Please don't tell me there are people like her character or Raymond Massey's because they were so far out as to be caricatures of some sad Greek drama.

 

[shrox]

Honestly, you really like the Fountainhead? I just don't buy into the idea that talented people should be treated differently than the rest. True, I don't believe we should all conform, but Ayn Rand draws it out to the point that people of genius should be able to live by a different set of rules. That idea has been used to treat a genius who commits murder to be treated different than the rest of society . . . so much so, that some adherents of Ayn Rand say the genius' life is worth more than the victim and therefore shouldn't be held responsible for his/her act.

As for the movie version, it was one the most over-acted movies I have ever seen. I really like Patricia Neal but she was comical. Please don't tell me there are people like her character or Raymond Massey's because they were so far out as to be caricatures of some sad Greek drama.

We savants do live by a different set of rules, the ones everyone else obeys plus several of our own.

 

[hball55]

I used to like Atlas Shrugged, but not so much anymore. I am a John Galt, but I have too much Captain Kirk/Bart Simpson in me too.

John Galt was the antithesis to collectivism/socialism, so I would imagine he'd be set against Obamacare, SSI, Welfare, etc. not much humanity in a John Galt. Truly, though Ayn makes SOME points in her writing, she was a shameless Elitist.

 

[JStarStar]

The world would be a far, far better place if somebody had put a bullet in Ayn Rand's head when she was about 19 years old.

 

[hball55]

The world would be a far, far better place if somebody had put a bullet in Ayn Rand's head when she was about 19 years old.

No argument there.

 

[hball55]

We savants do live by a different set of rules, the ones everyone else obeys plus several of our own.

Shrox, are you trying to lead me down the path? Here's what I mean. You say you are like John Galt who is opposed to a collectivist/socialist government, yet you support a collectivist/socialist government that makes others pay for welfare, SSI, health care.

That sounds suspiciously like someone who holds two opposing views at the same time. So are you leading me to F. Scott Fitzgerald who said:

The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in the mind at the same time and still be able to function.

Is that where you're leading me?

Gotta love literature.

 

[thobin]

This went political in a hurry. I'm done with this thread, I come here for rockets not political crap.


TA

 

[majordude]

This went political in a hurry. I'm done with this thread, I come here for rockets not political crap.

Dang it! Where is the "LIKE" button!

 

[shrox]

Shrox, are you trying to lead me down the path? Here's what I mean. You say you are like John Galt who is opposed to a collectivist/socialist government, yet you support a collectivist/socialist government that makes others pay for welfare, SSI, health care.

That sounds suspiciously like someone who holds two opposing views at the same time. So are you leading me to F. Scott Fitzgerald who said:

The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in the mind at the same time and still be able to function.

Is that where you're leading me?

Gotta love literature.

It was a joke.

 

[hball55]

It was a joke.

But I was enjoying the journey. if you ever want to discuss Ayn Rand, or kill her, let me know.

 

[hball55]

This went political in a hurry. I'm done with this thread, I come here for rockets not political crap.


TA

This from a guy who quotes William F. Buckley in his signature? Enjoyed listening to him, but hated it when his tongue kept slipping out . . . reminded me of a lizard.

 

[JPVegh]

This from a guy who quotes William F. Buckley in his signature? Enjoyed listening to him, but hated it when his tongue kept slipping out . . . reminded me of a lizard.

That's because he was a Reptilian from the Draco constellation... just sayin'.

 

[Bone Daddy]

Just to get it out in the open, I too love the Fountainhead.

When I was a kid there was Estes and Centuri.
I was a Centuri guy.
A friend was an Estes guy.
Seemed you were one or the other.
Then along came MPC with those neat little mini motors.

That was three vendors. There may have been more, but we didn't know about them.

Now as a BAR, there seems to be an endless supply of vendors.
Frankly, it blew me away when I first got back into it.

My first love is scratch built rockets.
I like to design - credit to Shrox for usage of this phrase.

Then the Boy Scout sale kept me building Wizards (built 10 still have more).
I'm just recently running out of most of my Boy Scout sale motors.

My recent acquisition of Estes' inexpensive big box of model rocketry joy will keep me in kits or parts for scratches for a long time.
I think the Star Stryker is next.

The only thing I see me buying in the near future is - spare the odd part here or there -motors.
I have many rockets that have flown over 10 times each.
Then throw in the clusters - which are just too cool. I'll fly a three A cluster when a single C will get the job done better.
Two stage rockets - again you pay for the cool factor using two motors when one can do the job.

To top it off, I probably spend just as much if not more finishing them and none of that money goes to rocket vendors.

My guess - and this may be restating a previous post - Estes makes money on motors.
The is little competition in the lpr motors. The recent spate of Estes easy to build to prebuilt rockets seems to support this.
I see kids at club launches fly the same Viking, Alpha, Mongoose, etc rocket over and over again.
Eating up motors.

It will be interesting if we see more kids showing up with the new mpr models, eating up the more expensive motors.

Then of course there is the internet. Enough said.

Soon enough, we'll have cheap, high quality rapid proto machines.
Think of the nosecones and the fin cans.

Vendors may come and vendors may go, but as long as there is a good steady supply of motors we will fly rockets.
Whose rocket is really just a matter of preference, not necessity.

Bones

 

[dave carver]

The plan paks are the instructions that would normally be in a kit, with all patterns and decals. By other stuff I mean keeping track, business stuff. etc.

I just don't have the facilities now, I am living in a spare room at a friend's house, and that is about to be over, and I was was just denied SSI now I have to appeal. Let's hope I can find a lawyer that won't take it all.

I will absolutly NEVER understand how I got my SSI in 4 months with only carpel tunnel syndrome in my left wrist. My old friend Bill the same, 4 months, for stage 4 cancer. He didn't make it, though. I know there a list of disabilities that the Gov says are disabilities and carpel tunnel is one, is your problem on the list?

I only get $721 a month starting January 1st. I hope to god you don't have to pay a lawyer out of that

 

[hball55]

Just to get it out in the open, I too love the Fountainhead.


The book I assume. The movie (acting) was way over the top.

 

[VonMises]

The book I assume. The movie (acting) was way over the top.

Her views may be harsh, but she grew up under the harsh reality of a collectivist state. I would expect no less.

Personally, Altas Shurgged is my favorite book. The movie is good, but they had to leave out Hank Rearden’s monologues. In my opinion these were the highlight of the book. Still, for fiction it comes terribly close to what we see in Washington now.

Have you ever met and really spoken to someone who made it out of the eastern block? Those I've spoken with will tell you we’re heading down a path that leads to the very place they escaped from. Ayn was doing the same thing, only in a more dramatic fashon, and from the mindset of someone from Russia in the early 20th century. The Fountainhead is a perfect example. Did she really think the act of killing was ok depending on who did it? I don’t know. I didn’t take that from the works of fiction, neither did my wife. However, I do know that Russians have a different way of making a point than we do.

I would suggest reading Mig Pilot. It’s the story of Viktor Belenko and his escape to the west. He warned us back in the late 70’s.

 

[les]

Are we a little off topic from the Vendors in Decline discussion?

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I don't really like Ayn Rand. I think she is a bit racist or at least ethno-centric. I also would take her philosophy more seriously if she did not end her days suckling at the teat of collectivist Social Security and Medicare. (Not that I myself think there is anything wrong with Social Security or Medicare, but I think she should have practiced what she preached.)

 

[VonMises]

I don't really like Ayn Rand.

:y:

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Back to the topic...

Shrox, how much can you charge for a Plan Pak? is it a viable way to make a living?

And how does it work if you design something for a manufacturer who is going to sell kits based on your design? Can you still sell a Plan Pak for that design, or does the manufacturer own it? Do you actually sell the design to the company outright, or is it licensed to them in some way? Do they pay you one fee, or do you get something like a royalty on each kit? Have you ever considered a book of designs and plans with awesome glossy artwork?

 

[boomtube]

Every so often this topic showed up on the now defunct Atlas Model Train Forum and still rears its ugly head on Trainboard.

It’s been doing this for closing on 15 years and there are more vendors turning out more model RR product than ever before. Sure, some vendors have gone the way of the Dodo many because the one guy making the stuff in his garage passed away.

Others ceased production because the casting molds became overly worn and today’s cost for replacement molds is prohibitive for a one man operation. There are many reasons why one producer leaves the market but sure as the sunrise if there is a need for the product then eventually somebody else comes along and fills the niche.

As for retail vendors shuttering their doors, Death and Taxes first comes to mind but I know of at least two small town hobby shops that had to close down because the 1920s era building they had been housed in since the ‘50s was falling down around their ears and the cost of new digs was prohibitive.

 

[Bone Daddy]

Yep, the book.
Never saw the movie.

Cloud Atlas is very Ayn Randish to me.
The movie is beautiful, I'm looking for the book.

On thread: I do support my local hobby shops including HobbyTowne, Michaels and of course how could we forget Hobby Lobby?
I buy my motors there with a 40% off coupon. They must lose money on those sales..........

Bones

 

[shreadvector]

Yep, the book.
Never saw the movie.

Cloud Atlas is very Ayn Randish to me.
The movie is beautiful, I'm looking for the book.

On thread: I do support my local hobby shops including HobbyTowne, Michaels and of course how could we forget Hobby Lobby?
I buy my motors there with a 40% off coupon. They must lose money on those sales..........

Bones

They do not lose money on those sales .

 

[JStarStar]

They do not lose money on those sales .

Also, HobbyTowne, Michael's and Hobby Lobby are not "local hobby shops." I stop in there to see what they've got but usually I'd rather shop from a good online vendor.

I actually do have a real live brick-and-mortar non-chain hobby shop in my town. I stop in there once a month or so and usually buy something, even if the price is a bit steep. I am not sure if he is going to make a go of it long term but I throw him a sale once in a while.

 

[hball55]

Yep, the book.
Never saw the movie.

Cloud Atlas is very Ayn Randish to me.
The movie is beautiful, I'm looking for the book.

On thread: I do support my local hobby shops including HobbyTowne, Michaels and of course how could we forget Hobby Lobby?
I buy my motors there with a 40% off coupon. They must lose money on those sales..........

Bones

I watched the movie because I really like watching both Gary Cooper and Patricia Neal. Favorite Cooper movies: Sergeant York, High Noon, The Westerner. Especially The Westerner; love it when he tells Judge Roy Bean (Walter Brennan) that he can get him a lock of Lillie Langtree's hair, then proceeds to con his sweetie out of a lock of her hair and passes it off as Lillie Langtree's hair when he gives it to Judge Roy Bean.

Cloud Atlas, beyond the word Atlas being in the title and Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged having the word Atlas in the title, I see no similarity.

 

[luke strawwalker]

What exactly is a "Plan Pack?" Is it a set of plans for a rocket (plus decals in your case)? Or does it include any building materials at all?

Sometimes not even that... basically just basic instructions as to what the rocket should look like, how to put the pieces together to get it together, and a list of parts or materials needed, with a few fin templates and such... TLP sold a lot of plan packs, and unless something's changed recently, TLP KITS don't even have decals... OF course one COULD sell plan packs with the parts lists, instructions, and decals as well...

I can see that it would be a problem for a small 1- or 2-person shop to stock a lot of pre-cut materials, with every design having different fins, tube lengths, etc. Also, custom cutting everything adds to the cost. Could you sell a kit that was sort of a mid-point between a kit with fully prepared parts and a product that is only the plans and decals for a rocket --- something that includes the plans and also all the unprepared materials required (standard length tubes from the manufacturers, sheets of balsa or basswood that are not laser cut, etc.)? Or is that what a "Plan PacK" is? It seems like there may be plenty of builders who would be happy working from a set of plans, but would rather not shop for all the materials separately. And it is something extra that you can charge for.

Also, regarding not being stellar at all the other stuff, that is what employees are for. Until you have a large volume, would it be possible to have someone come in once a week to do all the packaging and shipping? Just let customers know that all orders received during a week will be processed and shipped on the following Monday. I think a lot of customers would be OK with that. You could get a temp agency to have someone do this for you, so you don't actually have to be an employer.

Problem is, those things cost money... unless you have a rocket buddy willing to work for virtually nothing, you have to sell a LOT of kits to justify even a single employee, even working only 1 day a week... Parts and supplies cost enough as it is, not including shipping and all that... That's why a lot of vendors are one-man operations or family businesses with just a few related employees...

Later! OL JR

 

[luke strawwalker]

The plan paks are the instructions that would normally be in a kit, with all patterns and decals. By other stuff I mean keeping track, business stuff. etc.

I just don't have the facilities now, I am living in a spare room at a friend's house, and that is about to be over, and I was was just denied SSI now I have to appeal. Let's hope I can find a lawyer that won't take it all.

Word of friendly advice... apply again on your own before you go to one of those SSI lawyers...

My Dad became handicapped about a decade ago well before retirement age due to health problems related to post-polio syndrome... he was in extreme pain and couldn't think clearly to work, was making mistakes and would have led to him getting fired... he was already going to a fistful of doctors and they couldn't even figure out what was wrong with him-- had him on a bunch of meds, most of which did little good. He applied for SSI and was denied (they usually deny virtually all claims the first time) and then reapplied and was accepted.

Those SSI lawyers on TV all the time (and the ones that aren't) typically will get anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 your SSI benefits forever and the disability is already pretty slim as it is, meaning you live on a pittance while the shyster lawyer is raking in thousands a month from his share of all his "clients" benefits... There really aught to be a law against that sort of thing... I don't have a problem with a lawyer making a decent fee for his services-- that's only right-- but getting that big a share of folks' with problems benefits in perpetuity for a ONE TIME service (handling the case and hearing to get the benefits) is ridiculous... How those guys sleep at night knowing they're getting a third or more of some poor guy or girl's benefits while they're living hand to mouth is beyond me...

Anyway, best of luck to you and hope it works out...

Later! OL JR