Vendors in decline?

[shrox]

That`s how TLP got started ,PLANPAKS and then slowly he began putting together kits and bagging them ,providing the buyer with the basic parts........just add enthusiasm and a bit of skill......but no decals.

That was back in the early 80`s and he`s still around ,filling a niche market for all things militaria.

As for Shrox......the fact that you are at least going to provide plan paks and decals is very good news ,I am pleased !! This may also free up more time for more designs and R&D.

Being much a scratch builder myself, plan paks would serve me fine ,with the oppportunity to upscale them as I see the need.........OK....and I NEED TO :wink:


Paul T

I just can't physically do the bagging and stuff anymore.

 

[shrox]

Set up a Kickstarter page. To be quite honest, I've never built a kit according to the instructions since the 60's-they are just an easy way to buy a particular sized collection of parts. Plan paks have plenty of appeal for a lotof us and I know for a fact the hook can be the decals. Maybe you could partner up with Mark and offer 'custom-sized' scaled decals complete with assembly dimensions. With your capabilities, a fellow rocketeer could just jump into one of your designs once he knows exactly what he needs to buy. I love your designs and the videos are just jaw-dropping. Keep up the good work and find a way to make it happen.

I did the Kickstarter thing, I failed miserably remember?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/515267715/shrockets-flying-model-rockets

 

[Madison Alum]

I am doing that actually, the Ibis, the JSC and the SeaSting first. They will include the decal set too.

Perhaps you could revisit some of your older designs, as well. The threads here and on YORF in the last year or so have shown a lot of really cool designs I missed in the past!

 

[harsas]

I did the Kickstarter thing, I failed miserably remember?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/515267715/shrockets-flying-model-rockets

I would not say miserably. I would say you failed gloriously.

 

[shrox]

I would not say miserably. I would say you failed gloriously.

Excellent!

 

[jflis]

Ditto to Shrox' comment about designing . I love designing. My next love is doing the documentation. It's just relaxing. Most everything else is a necessary evil to running a business lol

As for rocket company owners being weak or cursed, in a way we are (cursed). We're cursed with a small slice of a small industry. It doesn't take much to disrupt it and send it spiraling out of control. It's also an industry where it is not easy to grow it to the point of supporting yourself, as well as a work force, so many (most?) are part time efforts which knock it down a few notches in priority right off the bat.

In all actuality, I find most of the rocket manufacturers to be of quite hardy stock, very imaginative and quite the nice bunch

 

[thobin]

Its just a smaller hobby than we all want to admit, several times I though it was going to blink out and its been on the brink more than once. New innovators and vendors pop up and booms once again. Like all things in life rocketry has a cycle, regardless of what the media is spewing, times are tough out there money is tight.

I have never been a BAR, my interest and level of involvement has been low at times but I have always built and launched rockets to some degree since 1977. I have seen a lot come and go, we may not recognize the hobby in a few years but it will be here and it will have many new vendors and great new products to be bought.


TA

 

[VonMises]

I do cool designs, pretty packages and nifty marketing. The other stuff is what I am not stellar at.

Ok, that’s more than a lot of successful businesses start with. So I guess the most relevant question is: Are you looking for investors?

As for expense, I don't think that is a significant barrier. Maybe for HPR, but not LPR. I don't shoot rifles as much as I did before the recent big run up in ammo prices. Too expensive to shoot even if you reload, and what I mean by shooting is shooting several thousand rounds a year. I can still afford an active involvement in LPR, with a little dabbling in MPR/HPR.

-W

Like any hobby, I suppose it depends on your level of involvement. I can reload 2,000 .308 Winchester for the cost of my trip to MWP. Just spent enough on engines to reload 500 more, and this will only get me through one launch weekend. Of course 500 rds will only last through a weekend competition, so I suppose it’s a wash for me.

Regarding the health of an individual, I think it has more to do with the size of the business than the people running it. For instance, suppose something happened to a husband & wife operation. Doesn’t really matter what, the business is interrupted until the event is resolved. Now take an operation with 50 or 100 people. If something unforeseen happens to 3 or 4 people, there will be far less interruption as other will be able to fill in, at least temporarily. Therefore you have far less interruption.

So at this level, I agree with TopRamen, as that’s what I took from his comment.

Now let’s consider shrox. I’m assuming he’s a one man operation. If anything happens to him, the business is disrupted. It could be anything, including a need for capital to expand, or the time he takes traveling to and from promotional events.

Now let’s look at future shrox. He’s the one responsible for design and marketing. If something happens to him, the other 100 or so employees can coast along trying desperately to keep up with orders until future shrox can be recaptured and chained down in his state-of-the-art design lab.

 

[michigander]

I just can't physically do the bagging and stuff anymore.

Cool designs IMO the bagged kits in 10-20 years will be collectors items , assuming only a limited amount have been sold

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I do cool designs, pretty packages and nifty marketing. The other stuff is what I am not stellar at.

What exactly is a "Plan Pack?" Is it a set of plans for a rocket (plus decals in your case)? Or does it include any building materials at all?

I can see that it would be a problem for a small 1- or 2-person shop to stock a lot of pre-cut materials, with every design having different fins, tube lengths, etc. Also, custom cutting everything adds to the cost. Could you sell a kit that was sort of a mid-point between a kit with fully prepared parts and a product that is only the plans and decals for a rocket --- something that includes the plans and also all the unprepared materials required (standard length tubes from the manufacturers, sheets of balsa or basswood that are not laser cut, etc.)? Or is that what a "Plan PacK" is? It seems like there may be plenty of builders who would be happy working from a set of plans, but would rather not shop for all the materials separately. And it is something extra that you can charge for.

Also, regarding not being stellar at all the other stuff, that is what employees are for. Until you have a large volume, would it be possible to have someone come in once a week to do all the packaging and shipping? Just let customers know that all orders received during a week will be processed and shipped on the following Monday. I think a lot of customers would be OK with that. You could get a temp agency to have someone do this for you, so you don't actually have to be an employer.

 

[shrox]

What exactly is a "Plan Pack?" Is it a set of plans for a rocket (plus decals in your case)? Or does it include any building materials at all?

I can see that it would be a problem for a small 1- or 2-person shop to stock a lot of pre-cut materials, with every design having different fins, tube lengths, etc. Also, custom cutting everything adds to the cost. Could you sell a kit that was sort of a mid-point between a kit with fully prepared parts and a product that is only the plans and decals for a rocket --- something that includes the plans and also all the unprepared materials required (standard length tubes from the manufacturers, sheets of balsa or basswood that are not laser cut, etc.)? Or is that what a "Plan PacK" is? It seems like there may be plenty of builders who would be happy working from a set of plans, but would rather not shop for all the materials separately. And it is something extra that you can charge for.

Also, regarding not being stellar at all the other stuff, that is what employees are for. Until you have a large volume, would it be possible to have someone come in once a week to do all the packaging and shipping? Just let customers know that all orders received during a week will be processed and shipped on the following Monday. I think a lot of customers would be OK with that. You could get a temp agency to have someone do this for you, so you don't actually have to be an employer.

The plan paks are the instructions that would normally be in a kit, with all patterns and decals. By other stuff I mean keeping track, business stuff. etc.

I just don't have the facilities now, I am living in a spare room at a friend's house, and that is about to be over, and I was was just denied SSI now I have to appeal. Let's hope I can find a lawyer that won't take it all.

 

[GDJ]

I can only speak for myself, but I would be just fine with a "Plan Pack". I have enough tools and expertise that I can pretty much build what I want, freehand or blueprinted.

ps. Shrox, if you have a plan pack for the "Kanuck" (sp?) rocket I would be interested. Kind of reminds me of a Bomarc missile with a cockpit.

 

[shrox]

I can only speak for myself, but I would be just fine with a "Plan Pack". I have enough tools and expertise that I can pretty much build what I want, freehand or blueprinted.

ps. Shrox, if you have a plan pack for the "Kanuck" (sp?) rocket I would be interested. Kind of reminds me of a Bomarc missile with a cockpit.

I plan to make them all as plan paks, I just won't be able to print and mail them for awhile without a place.

 

[terryg]

The best choice for you at this point is to do everything online. Downloadable plans and patterns with pdf files for the decals. People could print their own or get them printed up by Sandman or for high power upscalers Stickershock. Then you could concentrate on what you enjoy and the rest of us could have the benefits of your designs.

 

[hball55]

I did the Kickstarter thing, I failed miserably remember?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/515267715/shrockets-flying-model-rockets

What do you mean, failed? You raised $2953.00 in 28 days. How come you stopped? Why the seemingly artificial goal date of Sep. 17? Sounds like this endeavor was set up to fail. Was that your plan? How about those that donated to this endeavor, what did you tell them? I don't mean telling them by posting to your site, I mean individually. Afterall, one person donated $1000 and I don't think posting on your site that it failed would cut it. Did you refund their donations or did you live off them?

I have to consider the donations weren't collected, but just pledged, and if the goal was met in pledges, the work of collecting them would ensue.

Those are the questions most people would ask. Otherwise, with no answers to questions like that would lead me to think it was all a scam.

 

[GDJ]

Here is a good example of helping out your local vendor:

Just bought 2 sticks of 3x3x12 balsa, and 2 sticks of 2x2x12 balsa. Total was $27.54 CDN.
I checked their supplier (Trillium Balsa) and the price was about a buck less per piece, but the shipping added would have been $36 in change.

Cheaper for me to drive 20 minutes, burn $4 in gas and get it locally (this time at least).

 

[shrox]

What do you mean, failed? You raised $2953.00 in 28 days. How come you stopped? Why the seemingly artificial goal date of Sep. 17? Sounds like this endeavor was set up to fail. Was that your plan? How about those that donated to this endeavor, what did you tell them? I don't mean telling them by posting to your site, I mean individually. Afterall, one person donated $1000 and I don't think posting on your site that it failed would cut it. Did you refund their donations or did you live off them?

I have to consider the donations weren't collected, but just pledged, and if the goal was met in pledges, the work of collecting them would ensue.

Those are the questions most people would ask. Otherwise, with no answers to questions like that would lead me to think it was all a scam.

You don't get the funds unless you meet the goal. Did you look at the rules and recommendations at Kickstarter? They recommend 30 days.

Who are you?

 

[GDJ]

I plan to make them all as plan paks, I just won't be able to print and mail them for awhile without a place.

When you are ready, let us all know.

 

[hball55]

You don't get the funds unless you meet the goal. Did you look at the rules and recommendations at Kickstarter? They recommend 30 days.

Who are you?

In the second paragraph, I admitted that they were just pledges that would need to be collected. You answered my question that they weren't collected and why. It all makes perfect sense. Please excuse the premature conclusion, as it wasn't warranted.

But why the short period to meet your goal? Is it a requirement? I would hope that six months to a year would be more doable. If so, why not try again?

Who am I? I take it that was rhetorical; otherwise, what could I say that would satisfy you. I am Henry Ball, retired government worker (State of California). Registered Republican, skeptic, rocket enthusiast, Harley enthusiast (no interest in posing as a biker), Raider fan, Yankee fan, and someone who has little patience for chronic complainers/self-described victims.

As an example, I chose to take a government job that wasn't in line with my experience (receptionist) because it would both get my foot in the door and provide health insurance/retirement benefits. I was later able to transfer over to warehousing and purchasing, where my experience served me best.

 

[VonMises]

...Raider fan, Yankee fan,...

I'm so disapointed.

 

[shrox]

In the second paragraph, I admitted that they were just pledges that would need to be collected. You answered my question that they weren't collected and why. It all makes perfect sense. Please excuse the premature conclusion, as it wasn't warranted.

But why the short period to meet your goal? Is it a requirement? I would hope that six months to a year would be more doable. If so, why not try again?

Who am I? I take it that was rhetorical; otherwise, what could I say that would satisfy you. I am Henry Ball, retired government worker (State of California). Registered Republican, skeptic, rocket enthusiast, Harley enthusiast (no interest in posing as a biker), Raider fan, Yankee fan, and someone who has little patience for chronic complainers/self-described victims.

As an example, I chose to take a government job that wasn't in line with my experience (receptionist) because it would both get my foot in the door and provide health insurance/retirement benefits. I was later able to transfer over to warehousing and purchasing, where my experience served me best.

I am an artist. I was a corporal and squad leader in ROTC, then I dropped out of high school and went to work. I worked as art director for the three biggest names in video games, held two public offices, saw the error of society in general and became a hermit. Also I got sick and my wife left me, I foolishly gave her everything (that included a half million dollar mortgage) because she claimed be sick too. Then I got a border collie. And I design rockets.

Kickstarter recommends waiting a while before trying again so it doesn't come off as desperate. Maybe it just wasn't cool enough.

Do you like Star Trek?

 

[belfert]

But why the short period to meet your goal? Is it a requirement? I would hope that six months to a year would be more doable. If so, why not try again?

Kickstarter allows projects to run a maximum of 60 days with a recommendation of 30 days.

 

[hball55]

Yes, I do like Star Trek, Star Wars, etc. Great fan of Science Fiction. Are you well read? Love discussing books/authors. Started Sci Fi reading by first looking up the Hugo and Nebula winners, buying those books and then buying more of the authors I liked reading most. Reading puts me to sleep anymore, so I have switched to Audible books.

 

[hball55]

I'm so disapointed.

ROFL, it's like a badge of courage admitting to being a Raider Fan. Used to be people would snort and accuse me of being a win fan, but not anymore. I figure that since I got to enjoy their play during the 60s, 70s and 80s, that I owe it to them to stay a fan. That said, I'm watching the Green Bay/Chicago game, not the Denver/Raider game. Aaron Rodgers is a local boy and played at the same college I went to, Butte Junior College.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

What do you mean, failed? You raised $2953.00 in 28 days. How come you stopped? Why the seemingly artificial goal date of Sep. 17? Sounds like this endeavor was set up to fail. Was that your plan? How about those that donated to this endeavor, what did you tell them? I don't mean telling them by posting to your site, I mean individually. Afterall, one person donated $1000 and I don't think posting on your site that it failed would cut it. Did you refund their donations or did you live off them?

I have to consider the donations weren't collected, but just pledged, and if the goal was met in pledges, the work of collecting them would ensue.

Those are the questions most people would ask. Otherwise, with no answers to questions like that would lead me to think it was all a scam.

It was pretty clear on the Kickstarter site how it worked. All the answers to the questions you just asked were spelled out in detail up front. There were no surprises for any of us who participated. I never had any sense I was being scammed. The goal was not met, so my credit card was never charged. I'm sure Kickstarter requires a time limit, and it can't be changed after the project is launched.

 

[shrox]

Yes, I do like Star Trek, Star Wars, etc. Great fan of Science Fiction. Are you well read? Love discussing books/authors. Started Sci Fi reading by first looking up the Hugo and Nebula winners, buying those books and then buying more of the authors I liked reading most. Reading puts me to sleep anymore, so I have switched to Audible books.

Honestly, these last four years have been manuals or online articles...the last sci-fi book I read was Starship Troopers about four years ago. My favorite sci-fi is the White Mountain trilogy, even though it's written for young adults, which I was then. Two of my favorite books of fiction are The Odyssey and The Fountainhead, I can't really think of a favorite non-fiction, other than The Greatest Generation and Rocket Boys. I like bad jokes too, did you see the T-Rex one? I debated it for a while before posting it though.

 

[RoyAtl]

What do you mean, failed? You raised $2953.00 in 28 days. How come you stopped? Why the seemingly artificial goal date of Sep. 17? Sounds like this endeavor was set up to fail. Was that your plan? How about those that donated to this endeavor, what did you tell them? I don't mean telling them by posting to your site, I mean individually. Afterall, one person donated $1000 and I don't think posting on your site that it failed would cut it. Did you refund their donations or did you live off them?

I have to consider the donations weren't collected, but just pledged, and if the goal was met in pledges, the work of collecting them would ensue.

Those are the questions most people would ask. Otherwise, with no answers to questions like that would lead me to think it was all a scam.

The way Kickstarter works is that the pledges are already collected as far as a commitment to a credit card or paypal. If the goal is reached, funds are automatically collected. But if the goal isn't reached, none of it gets collected.

In other words, it's all or none.

So, yes, he can look at that 2900.00 as a gauge of popularity, but it is now just a number.

 

[VonMises]

Honestly, these last four years have been manuals or online articles...the last sci-fi book I read was Starship Troopers about four years ago. My favorite sci-fi is the White Mountain trilogy, even though it's written for young adults, which I was then. Two of my favorite books of fiction are The Odyssey and The Fountainhead, I can't really think of a favorite non-fiction, other than The Greatest Generation and Rocket Boys. I like bad jokes too, did you see the T-Rex one? I debated it for a while before posting it though.

Any Rand's The Fountainhead?

If so, you'll love Atlas Shrugged.

 

[shrox]

Any Rand's The Fountainhead?

If so, you'll love Atlas Shrugged.

I used to like Atlas Shrugged, but not so much anymore. I am a John Galt, but I have too much Captain Kirk/Bart Simpson in me too.

 

[shrox]

The way Kickstarter works is that the pledges are already collected as far as a commitment to a credit card or paypal. If the goal is reached, funds are automatically collected. But if the goal isn't reached, none of it gets collected.

In other words, it's all or none.

So, yes, he can look at that 2900.00 as a gauge of popularity, but it is now just a number.

Yes, it's pretty clear.

What is not clear is how some scrap-booking project or interpretative dance class for dolphins gets funded.