Mounting and transmitting from a camera

[Maccadude33]

Hi all,

Sorry if this seems too trivial or has been asked before, but I was wondering if anyone could offer me tips on installing a camera into a Level 2 high powered rocket and how I might go about transmitting a live photo or video stream from it. From what I've gathered, I know a few people on here have mounted Contour and GoPro cameras in their rockets and retrieved footage off of SD cards; have any of you tried streaming those photos/videos from your rocket in realtime?

I like the fact that one of the Contour cameras I've come across has built-in GPS and Bluetooth chips, but since I'm considering installing a separate GPS or RF transmitter into my electronics bay, they're not that big of a deal. Those chips probably wouldn't do me much good at several thousand feet in the sky anyway! Anyhow, a friend of mine also recommended I look at Epic cameras as well. I'm not sure what to think about those. Has anyone here had any experience with one of these cameras? For those of you who have, what could you tell me about them? Did you mount your camera(s) beneath an overhang/canopy facing the ground, or have you tried something different? I'm prepared to build my own mounting system so I'm open to all suggestions!

For the transmitting side of things, I thought I might buy a Raspberry Pi sort of device, connect one of the aforementioned cameras to it, and then program it to relay what photos/videos the camera captures to the ground via radio, kinda like what this one guy did with a balloon. Thing is, I'm brand new to working with broadcasting equipment; what sort of methods/transmitters could I look into for this purpose?

Thanks for any advice, I appreciate it!

 

[Issus]

There is a whole hobby based on this! It's called First Person View flying (rc planes/helis/cars/quads)

You'll need:
Video Transmitter + receiver: https://www.fpvmodel.com/58-ghz-200-mw-tx-and-rx-805_p80.html
Realtime gopro output cable (older gopros): https://www.fpvmodel.com/12g-24g-58...-output-cable-for-gopro-hero-camera_p159.html
Realtime gopro output cable for V3: https://www.fpvmodel.com/realtime-output-cable-for-gopro-hero-camera_p464.html

DVR, to record with if you don't just want to watch the video live, and onboard recording fails or you use a smaller, lighter camera: https://www.readymaderc.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11_14&products_id=1204

To view it, if you have a laptop, a USB cable is about the cheapest option you can get:
https://www.fpvmodel.com/easy-cap_p185.html

Otherwise... some sort of screen/tv
https://www.fpvmodel.com/-fpv-ap-video-screens-and-glasses_c33

 

[Maccadude33]

Thanks for the information Issus! Sorry for responding so late.

Suppose I decide to use a GoPro. How would you recommend I mount it? I noticed GoPros are rectangular in shape, as opposed to the cylindrical enclosure that the Contours have. My original plan was to build a dedicated camera canopy that I could attach to the bottom of my rocket's nosecone. The camera would be held inside that, but the lens would sit within an overhang overlooking the rest of the airframe. I wouldn't want to externally mount a camera, given that my rocket is capable of flying about 3200 feet using a Cesaroni J357 motor, and I'm most likely going to upgrade to a J600 for my next launch. I'd hate for the rocket to land right on top of the thing.

Are there any transmitters capable of broadcasting videos streams at 1080p? All of these current cameras record in all sorts of HD formats, so I'm just curious.

Is the DVR unit really necessary if I have my laptop with me? I figured I could connect a receiver directly to my MacBook, record the footage in Final Cut, and simultaneously stream that to my family and friends using a service like Ustream.

 

[Derek]

all of those transmitters are sd only. if you want hd, you need to record it on the camera.

if ultimately you only care about viewing the footage after the fact, just record it on the camera and watch it later. a $10 keychain cam can do this.

 

[Maccadude33]

I wish I could record footage on the camera and output it at the same time, but I'm guessing most cameras don't have that sort of capability. Either way, I want to use a quality camera if I'm going to take the time to install it into my rocket.

Yes, I would like to have footage that I can watch after the launch, but I also thought realtime streaming would be a great goal to work towards. Maybe it's just me, but I think it'd be amazing to be able to see what the rocket sees in realtime. Plus, as far as I know, no one in my rocketry club has attempted to do something like this; I figured it was worth trying, and I'd like to learn how to operate the electronics necessary for this sort of project.

 

[RadManCF]

If you know any HAM radio operators, they could probably point you in the right direction. There are a number of HAMs transmitting NTSC video these days.

 

[Maccadude33]

I don't know any personally, but I can make a few calls/emails and ask around. A friend of mine has been working on installing a GPS module into his Level 3 rocket, and he mentioned something about having to get equipment that didn't operate in the bands that would require a HAM license. Can't say I'm very knowledgeable on the subject. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Derek]

the go pros will record hd and output sd simultaneously, which you can transmit. as far as I know, there aren't any plug and play hd transmitters for hobbyists. you could put something together using a raspberry pi with a usb camera and transmit over wifi, but I'm not sure what kind of range you would get out of that.

that might be a fun experiment.

 

[Maccadude33]

the go pros will record hd and output sd simultaneously, which you can transmit. as far as I know, there aren't any plug and play hd transmitters for hobbyists.

Huh, that's an interesting tidbit, didn't realize they could do that. And I guess I should have figured there might not be any HD transmitters. I couldn't find any on a couple of the RC hobby websites.

Speaking of the Raspberry Pi idea, I dug further into the comments and details of the balloon project I linked to before. As it turns out, the guy behind it actually patched into a HAM radio network of some kind, with the help of some college kids like myself. Go figure!

WiFi: I don't think that's an option at this point. We tend to launch out of large fields where (I suspect) there aren't any open networks around.

Of course, now I almost want to get a HAM license and dive into the FPV scene. Too bad I don't have the time for that. I'll keep researching, thanks for the reply!

 

[Derek]

you don't need an existing wifi network for that to work. you can create an ad hoc network with the rpi and whatever device you are trying to see the video on.

I guess you could also use a wifi router or access point to create a network which would allow you to use a much larger antenna. this might actually work out better.

 

[Maccadude33]

Oh, I thought you were suggesting I control the Raspberry Pi/camera apparatus through the web! Using an ad hoc network is definitely an intriguing idea, but as you said, range is still a problem. I saw some of the FPV hobbyists build their own antenna arrays in order to get a quality link to their planes. Theoretically, could you connect something like that to a router and boost its range several thousand feet in all directions? Hmm... this line of thought is starting to make me wonder whether or not I should try to install a cellular modem into the Raspberry Pi and just be done with it.

 

[bguffer]

Is this acceptable?
[youtube]ixfHtSQKs9A[/youtube]

This was using a Boostervision wireless transmitter which required no HAM license, picked up by a patch antenna on the ground, and recorded onto an Aiptek camcorder based on the ground.

Bob

 

[Maccadude33]

Is this acceptable?

I'd say so! That's definitely the right idea. You're talking about this product right? I noticed they have a different high powered transmitter, but there is a license disclaimer on that page.

They listed this system as discontinued. Do you know where I might be able to find a new kit?

 

[bguffer]

I believe this is the one i use:
https://www.boostervision.com/cart/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=71
I use a patch antenna to get the 1 mile reception.

Bob

 

[Maccadude33]

I believe this is the one i use:
https://www.boostervision.com/cart/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=71
I use a patch antenna to get the 1 mile reception.

Bob

Excuse my ignorance, but I just want to be sure here. I could connect any patch antenna to the receiver to do this, correct?

 

[G_T]

You asked at one point about how to mount a GoPro. I've mounted them in two rockets, using different methods. The easiest method that I've used is shown in the thread on one of my rockets: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?37382-Sprite-6-quot-and-a-baby-O

Gerald

 

[Maccadude33]

You asked at one point about how to mount a GoPro. I've mounted them in two rockets, using different methods. The easiest method that I've used is shown in the thread on one of my rockets: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?37382-Sprite-6-quot-and-a-baby-O

Gerald

Wow! Congrats on that project of yours, it looks great! I can't wait to build something similar and use equipment such as that TeleMetrum kit (I'm really starting to want a HAM license >_<). Sadly, my humble rocket is a mere 3.5 inches in diameter and is configured for 38 mm motors. I still love it though! My next one will probably take 54 mm motors unless I end up working on a smaller staged or cluster rocket instead. I haven't decided which route I want to take yet.

Positioning the camera horizontally, as you did, certainly makes things a lot easier from a construction standpoint. I could easily extend my electronics bay and give myself plenty of room to cut out a hole. I like that this method doesn't add as much drag too. Definitely something worth thinking about. Thanks for sharing the info!

 

[G_T]

I do find mounting horizontally to be a lot easier with the GoPro cameras and ones of similar shape. The blocky shape just doesn't lend itself to a downward pointing video without using a mirror, and the field of view is too wide for that. Other cameras such as the Contour Roam and the Boostervison are easier to use mounted for a downward video.

My original plan, before I built Sprite, was for a 3" min diameter hybrid for L3 cert. The GoPro would work for that, but not easily for smaller. I wanted this sort of arrangement to minimize drag as I intended the original hybrid design, and later Sprite, to be > mach 1 fliers. I honestly don't know how fast the GoPro can be pushed before the outer lens takes heat damage. I've been upping the motor power progressively with each launch but am only up to an N3700 and low transonic speeds. So it hasn't seen appreciable dynamic pressure or heat yet. I'll probably aim to push it to high transonic at Red Glare, and then up to perhaps mach 1.5-1.7 at Potter later in the year with a small O. That should start to put a little stress on the camera and we'll see how well it does. On a 4" rocket I've pushed it to just under mach 1 with no issues. It was cool seeing the elevator ride blowing by a low sparse cloud layer at that speed! That's the sort of thing a horizontal view shows rather nicely.

I think at this point I prefer the original GoPro Hero over the Hero2. I'll be swapping back to the Hero for the next flight, stealing it from a 4" Mad Dog. The Hero3 is likely better but wasn't available at the time, and is certainly rather pricy! I think it is smaller so it may work easier.

Beware - it is possible for acceleration to shift the SD card causing data dropout for the boost phase. I had that happen with my Hero2 with its particular card at 11G, but never happen with the Hero and its particular card with multiple flights to 15G. I think I'd put a spot of removable glue (perhaps low temp hot melt if it doesn't affect the plastic, or non-ammonia generating RTV Silicone though that might be harder to remove) on the outside to stabilize the card were I going for higher acceleration flights.

Thanks for the compliments on the rocket! Honestly it was too much work but I do like the results.

Good luck with your project! Rocket videos are cool!

Gerald

PS - Go for the ham license!

 

[CarVac]

The Hero3 lens protrudes farther from the smaller body of the camera, so it would work better in a rocket than a Hero or Hero2.

 

[Maccadude33]

Beware - it is possible for acceleration to shift the SD card causing data dropout for the boost phase. I had that happen with my Hero2 with its particular card at 11G, but never happen with the Hero and its particular card with multiple flights to 15G. I think I'd put a spot of removable glue (perhaps low temp hot melt if it doesn't affect the plastic, or non-ammonia generating RTV Silicone though that might be harder to remove) on the outside to stabilize the card were I going for higher acceleration flights.

Thanks for the compliments on the rocket! Honestly it was too much work but I do like the results.

Good luck with your project! Rocket videos are cool!

Gerald

PS - Go for the ham license!

Thanks for the advice! I'll look into that. And I'll see what I can about getting a license over the summer, my semester is bound to be too busy for me to focus on it now.

I agree with both you and CarVac; the Hero3 seems like a really great option, but then again, for the same (expensive) price, I can also get the Contour+2. Thing is, if I want to make a horizontal mount, well, the Contour+2 is too long. I could have its lens protrude ever so slightly through the airframe, but then I would risk damaging it during the rocket's descent. I was really hoping to go with one of those, but in terms of practicality, the smaller Hero3 would seem to be the better choice. Judging by the video comparisons on YouTube, the Hero3 also has, in my opinion, better color contrast and balance. Guess that takes care of that then! /rambling

Ideally, I'd like to have both the GoPro and the Boostervision cameras installed in my rocket. It would be great to have HD video recordings to share and an actual view of the area my rocket decides to land in. Perhaps the Boostervision setup could help me track it more efficiently until I buy a full-blown GPS unit.

My friends and family have been very interested in my rocketry endeavors, but I know for a fact my parents would prefer to watch some better video footage. This is all we have of my rocket: my L1 launch here, and then my L2 launch from later that day. I suppose I'll have to order the better camera first!

Thanks for all of the input and advice so far everyone, I appreciate it.

 

[CarVac]

an actual view of the area my rocket decides to land in.

Haha, where I fly that wouldn't help you find it at all (nearly featureless dry lake bed).

Our club did once destroy a Hero, prompting us to use the no-questions-asked warranty towards the just-released Hero3 Black, but until we make a solid aluminum cage for it we're probably not going to fly it. It does make a terrific padcam what with the high framerate options.

 

[G_T]

I'd be interested in hearing the conditions of distruction. I'm considering an ~35G high altitude project using one. If it is acceleration or thermal related I'd like to know. I know the GoPro will have limitations, but I don't know what they are. It is not like it comes with that sort of technical specs!

Gerald

 

[Maccadude33]

Ha, you guys managed to destroy one of those? That's crazy!

Also, whoa... I was pulling up reviews of the new Hero3 Black Edition and it seems a lot of people are having issues with it, namely, freezing and battery problems. I'm a little put off by the sheer number of comments about that on Amazon and the GoPro forums. I suppose I could make my electronics bay extension accommodate a Contour camera...

CarVac, have you experienced any problems with the Hero3? I'd hate to buy a $400 camera that malfunctions more often than not.

 

[CarVac]

The hero3 has had no issues.

The Hero was destroyed when at apogee, the shock of the chute opening sheared the plastic rivets holding the booster and camera bay to the forward section which had avionics and tracker and the chute.

The GoPro was hence the first thing to hit the ground, followed by the rest of the 3" booster with a 1706 case in it.

 

[Maccadude33]

Ouch. I sure hope that doesn't happen to me!

Glad to hear you're not having problems with the new one! That said, I think I'm going to try the Contour first. I keep reading about all sorts of issues with the Black Edition, and knowing my luck, I would no doubt experience some of them. I'll post pictures of the Contour when I get it and how I'm going to about mounting it. Thanks again.

 

[CarVac]

Ouch. I sure hope that doesn't happen to me!

Glad to hear you're not having problems with the new one! That said, I think I'm going to try the Contour first. I keep reading about all sorts of issues with the Black Edition, and knowing my luck, I would no doubt experience some of them. I'll post pictures of the Contour when I get it and how I'm going to about mounting it. Thanks again.

Actually, now that I think about it, we did have one issue: the last file it was writing before it ran out of space got corrupted. I think.

We haven't used it too much, though, so we can't have run the gamut of problems.

 

[BayouRat]

The new BayouRat Rocketry #16 HD Micro Keychain cameras have a video out connection included with them. This can easily be coupled with a transmitter and received on the ground. You will need a HAM license to get any higher power transceivers.

https://bayouratrocketry.com

 

[Maccadude33]

The new BayouRat Rocketry #16 HD Micro Keychain cameras have a video out connection included with them. This can easily be coupled with a transmitter and received on the ground. You will need a HAM license to get any higher power transceivers.

https://bayouratrocketry.com

I definitely could use one of those licenses. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out!

@CarVac: Some people seemed to be having lots of file corruption issues. I also saw some reviewers mention the camera would just stop in the middle of recording something. I hope the Contour doesn't give me that much grief! :/

 

[daveyfire]

I also saw some reviewers mention the camera would just stop in the middle of recording something. I hope the Contour doesn't give me that much grief! :/

I dropped Diehl's Contour HD off my M1600-powered Competitor as it went supersonic... Not only did we get the camera back and pulled the video from it successfully, we turned around and stuck it on Todd's Little John with a P motor. Two gorgeous videos. They're floating around here/Facebook somewhere.

If we can't screw it up trying as hard as we have, you'll be fine

 

[Maccadude33]

I dropped Diehl's Contour HD off my M1600-powered Competitor as it went supersonic... Not only did we get the camera back and pulled the video from it successfully, we turned around and stuck it on Todd's Little John with a P motor. Two gorgeous videos. They're floating around here/Facebook somewhere.

If we can't screw it up trying as hard as we have, you'll be fine

Sounds great!

Here's my progress so far:

After experimenting for several hours last Friday, I managed to build and finish a basic camera mount over the weekend. Initially, I thought it would a good idea to cut out a block of styrofoam and mold it to fit the camera at an angle, while still fitting inside my rocket's airframe. That didn't work out so well. I drilled out a piece of foam to match my rocket's 3.5" diameter, but the foam itself wasn't pliable enough for me to do anything useful with it. So, I went over and sifted through our lab's pile of plywood and wood scraps. A few bulk plates and epoxying later, I cobbled this thing together:





The Contour+2 camera has a curved bottom; I took a Dremel tool to that small piece of wood and sanded a ridge to make sure it would sit flat in its compartment. Of course, that wasn't going to prevent it from sliding around. My next step was to stick the surface mount Contour included with the camera to one of the "walls" of my camera bay. The camera has rails on both of its sides; the mount simply slides into these rails and holds the camera in place. Unfortunately, due to either a slight curvature in the mount or a weak adhesive (possibly both), I could not get the mount to stick all the way down. Not wanting to risk my camera's safety on a piece of cheap plastic, I went ahead and covered that little guy in epoxy too. The result: the camera slides in and out of the mount with ease. Not too shabby!

Well, actually, my work is pretty shabby. In order to connect the camera module to my main parachute bay, I decided to epoxy a set of all thread rods to what will be the parachute bay's bottom bulk plate. I drilled holes through the camera mount so it could ride on them. However, because I sanded all of my bulk plates individually, when I started to put the whole module together, I found the holes no longer lined up. Just my luck. I needed to widen several of the holes and now, the plates look like Swiss cheese now! The whole capsule is quite ugly as a result. I'm not proud of it, but between all of the sanding and Dreml'ing, the bay fits inside the rocket fairly well now. My next model will be definitely be better though.

All I need to do now is: install the bulk plates into their respective bays with aeropoxy, cut out a door/window for the camera, attach a canopy/latch mechanism for the door/window, and sand down the camera bay compartment's exterior so it can be painted to match the rest of my rocket's color scheme (burnt metallic orange body with black fins and tip). I'll upload some pictures of the camera bay and the final result later this week. If all goes well, I'll be able to launch it on Saturday and share some video with you all. Can't wait to finish it!

One quick question: does anyone know what sort of foam padding I could place around the camera and the camera bay? I'd like to think having some soft foam could cushion the bay while in flight and reduce (at least a little bit of) vibration and stress on the lens. I keep thinking of yellow, spongelike foam padding, but I'm not sure where I'd be able to get that. Thanks for any advice and input, I appreciate it!