The B14 is back!

[cwbullet]

Might make the first few B14 go a little further out. I don't like the chuffs.

 

[bad_idea]

the C12/D16 Q-Jets cluster quite well.

Apologies if I've asked this elsewhere, but what do you use to get your clusters started? I've been using dipped MJG black powder starters for larger Q-Jets and 24/40 reloads, but they won't fit through the throats of the smaller ones.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Apologies if I've asked this elsewhere, but what do you use to get your clusters started? I've been using dipped MJG black powder starters for larger Q-Jets and 24/40 reloads, but they won't fit through the throats of the smaller ones.

I've been using the home made starters that I use for 18 mm D grains. Here's one in a Q-Jet B4. I do have a set of pictures on making them.

 

[Antares JS]

I've been thinking for a while what rockets I would like to use these in, and a possibility just came to me - I bet the B14's would be tons of fun clustered in the Estes Sidekick.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Might make the first few B14 go a little further out. I don't like the chuffs.

Aren't the B14s Blue Thunder?

 

[bad_idea]

Aren't the B14s Blue Thunder?

Yes.

 

[smstachwick]

I've been thinking for a while what rockets I would like to use these in, and a possibility just came to me - I bet the B14's would be tons of fun clustered in the Estes Sidekick.

NCR Cluster Duck. 6 x 18mm mounts, and a central 24mm mount. Maybe an F32 there?

 

[cwbullet]

Aren't the B14s Blue Thunder?

Thanks. I missed that in the announcement. The chuffs we had were white propellant.

 

[BEC]

The White Lightning Q-Jet B is a B6.

I wonder if these B14s will be available in time to be contest-approved for NARAM this year. B Eggloft Altitude.....

 

[dpower]

Apologies if I've asked this elsewhere, but what do you use to get your clusters started? I've been using dipped MJG black powder starters for larger Q-Jets and 24/40 reloads, but they won't fit through the throats of the smaller ones.

For Q-Jets, I use the included starters. I’ve only clustered the C12/D16. The C18/D20 chuff too much to attempt clusters. For BP, I use MJG BP starters. I’ve done mixed Q-Jet/BP clusters, though occasionally one doesn’t light. Not a problem with 7 motors.

 

[jqavins]

2. The phenolic nozzle. I thought that the demise of the D10 and D21 motors had to do with not being able to source a particular type of 18mm phenolic nozzle for SU motors. They apparently back. Even if I'm wrong - A 18mm SU motor with a phenolic nozzle - how cool is that?

As cool as bringing back the D10 and D21 (with Q-Jet labels I guess)?

Alright, here are my findings for clustering the B14s. I made an effort to do this quickly and simply, so I just used the example cluster rocket in OR (with nose weight optimized for altitude performance in the B14T, cheating a little) and went with the certified curves according to the documents linked on ThrustCurve, and set wind to zero.

The Long: B14Ts, when quad-clustered, give excellent rod exit speed and figures for max acceleration, slightily beating out any other quad-B arrangement and leaving single Ds in the dust. Altitude is middling, even with the optimization. 547ft vs some other altitudes in the 400s, 500s, and 600s. Max velocity is high but beatable by a few D types. Such an arrangement would likely be a showstopper on the low-power pads, even if it's hardly efficient. It would also require some work to ensure reliable ignition, although Blue Thunder isn't known for being stubborn. This isn't too far off what you'd expect, given the known behavior of clusters and high-thrust motors.

OK, now try 2×B14T + 2×B6W (Each pair diagonally opposed to keep the thrust symmetrical.)

NCR Cluster Duck. 6 x 18mm mounts, and a central 24mm mount. Maybe an F32 there?

 

[smstachwick]

OK, now try 2×B14T + 2×B6W (Each pair diagonally opposed to keep the thrust symmetrical.)

I don’t feel that mixing different propellants would be wise in real life, but I’ll give it a go in the sim. Stand by.

 

[smstachwick]

@jqavins

 

[ReynoldsSlumber]

So would B14's be certified for competition in time for NARAM-65 in Colorado in August, or earlier for the last remaining NRC events of the season?
And if so, would these be the motors of choice for the B Eggloft Altitude event? Especially if it's windy?
And is this the main reason for B14's coming this year? Or perhaps is it the other way around, that the contest event was chosen knowing B14's are coming? Seems too convenient to be a coincidence!
What motors are people using in the meantime, Estes B6-2's? Sounds hairy.

 

[Art Upton]

@BEC had been talking to Gary and the Contest Chairman about this in another thread I was sure you would have been watching

I think the Event was chosen before the motor was announced, I could be wrong but you can look that up. They are now certified, and would be the choice for B Eggloft for many. The issue now is lets get some for sale !

 

[smstachwick]

@BEC had been talking to Gary and the Contest Chairman about this in another thread I was sure you would have been watching

I think the Event was chosen before the motor was announced, I could be wrong but you can look that up. They are now certified, and would be the choice for B Eggloft for many. The issue now is lets get some for sale !

How would you do a B eggloft without that anyway? A 2-cluster of A10s? I feel like the weight would be a problem…

 

[Art Upton]

How would you do a B eggloft without that anyway? A 2-cluster of A10s? I feel like the weight would be a problem…

I've done B eggloft with B6s for years; as in when I was 15, when I was 27, then 36.

 

[Art Upton]

B6-2s, Back then some folks used B8s which were like C5s with the long tail cut off.

 

[smstachwick]

B6-2s, Back then some folks used B8s which were like C5s with the long tail cut off.

View attachment 642983

That makes sense. Lately I’ve been playing around with 1/2A6-2s in an Alpha, that gets them to about 50ft and it works perfectly.

 

[Art Upton]

That makes sense. Lately I’ve been playing around with 1/2A6-2s in an Alpha, that gets them to about 50ft and it works perfectly.

About the same with the Mini-Fat-Boy

 

[BEC]

@BEC had been talking to Gary and the Contest Chairman about this in another thread I was sure you would have been watching

I think the Event was chosen before the motor was announced, I could be wrong but you can look that up. They are now certified, and would be the choice for B Eggloft for many. The issue now is lets get some for sale !

This year's NRC events were announced last spring, so well before Gary's vNARCON announcement of the B14T.

How would you do a B eggloft without that anyway? A 2-cluster of A10s? I feel like the weight would be a problem…

If the B14Ts aren't contest-approved in time (though if product is actually available they will be) then I'll fly B6-4 off a piston. The other two B Q-Jets aren't really good choices based on some others' work and my own altimeter-included flights with sport models using them.

We flew B eggloft duration at NARAM last year using ASP Eggstravaganzas with 36 inch 0.3mil HDPE 'chutes in them and I managed to win that one. Two second delays are too short and least if you get any help from the piston.

 

[cwbullet]

I can't wait to fly a few. I might try to fly the fins off a Mosquito. Just kidding.

 

[smstachwick]

I can't wait to fly a few. I might try to fly the fins off a Mosquito. Just kidding.

I saw somebody do that with a rather large upscale at Spring ROCstock not too long ago. I believe it can be done if you build weak enough.

 

[BEC]

I can't wait to fly a few. I might try to fly the fins off a Mosquito. Just kidding.

It'll need to be an upscale, of course....since the regular Mosquito is BT-5-based.

Actually, my most satisfying Mosquito flying has been with one I fly on MicroMaxx motors and using a small streamer.

 

[cwbullet]

I saw somebody do that with a rather large upscale at Spring ROCstock not too long ago. I believe it can be done if you build weak enough.

That is my issue. I way overbuild most of my rockets. One flyer referred to my level 2 nose cone as a boat anchor.

 

[Initiator001]

Here's the AeroTech/Quest B14T ad from the back cover of the May/June issue of Sport Rocketry.

 

[astronwolf]

So would B14's be certified for competition in time for NARAM-65 in Colorado in August, or earlier for the last remaining NRC events of the season?
And if so, would these be the motors of choice for the B Eggloft Altitude event? Especially if it's windy?
And is this the main reason for B14's coming this year? Or perhaps is it the other way around, that the contest event was chosen knowing B14's are coming? Seems too convenient to be a coincidence!
What motors are people using in the meantime, Estes B6-2's? Sounds hairy.

1. Only the Contest Board chairman has the answer to this. With only two months left of the contest year, I hope they don't certify them for competition until the start of the new contest year. That would be the most fair thing to do IMHO.

2. I like your enthusiasm. The B14 is an untested option. What if they chuff like crazy, or spit nozzles 30% of the time? I don't expect that to happen, but as for being "the motor of choice," we don't know.

3. No. Adult competition fliers of any stripe (the movers and shakers, who buy stuff and drive kids to launches) number about 75 people in the USA, give or take. That's less than 1% of the NAR membership. It's even far, far less of a percentage of total consumers that might buy an Aerotech/Quest product. No manufacturer in their right mind would market a new motor just for the competition folks. The B14 is more for a heavy lift option, and for the nostalgia. The fabled B14 ... ooooooo! They should have retired that jersey.

4. The contest event was not chosen because someone thought that the B14s are being released soon.

5. Competitive flights are achieved using Estes B motors and pistons, in a suitable model. The flights are not at all "hairy." In a Estes Space Crater or Quest Courier, without a piston, the flight performance would be marginal.