Will You Be Holding Off on Buying New HP Stuff Now?

[deandome]

I know that I will be waiting until we get a hard decision before I buy anything....kinda sad, as I was going to go for a Talon 3 for X-Mas.

I know that to support our hobby, I should fly in the face of adversity & go for it, but I just cannot fathom "taking the LEUP" & might just have to stick w/mid power stuff if we lose and/or this keeps dragging on.

Are others in my boat?

 

[ben]

nope, I am working on some MPR and HPR rockets. I have a big project planned that will clean my budget so I don't have to worry about flying any big stuff for a while

thanx, Ben

 

[TWRackers]

Short answer: no.

Long answer: heck no!

I'm having too much fun.

 

[frankenhead]

well what happened today ? did they reach a verdict ? isnt today the day ? just home from work

 

[TeenRocketNerd]

there are members in my club that have an LEUP, so I am not going to stop my new HPR pursuits.... especially since I already bought a mini Armageddon to cert on...

 

[CQBArms]

No but I am REALLY thinking of going into hybrid technology.

 

[Skylinkdave]

Originally posted by Deandome
I know that I will be waiting until we get a hard decision before I buy anything....kinda sad, as I was going to go for a Talon 3 for X-Mas.

You can still build the T3. Kits are unregulated.

Dave

 

[Stymye]

I'm pretty much staying with midpower rockets.
there is plenty of enjoyment for me at that level and alot of uncharted territory left to explore personally.

I hate that the G33 has been heavily regulated that is one of my favorite motors.

I will get off my can and get my long overdue L2 next year more to help out my club(rso ,cert witness,ect.. ) than anything else.

 

[constevens]

Guys the worst thing at this conjuncture would be to cut back or quit or do what the ATFE is trying to get us to do. In the face of adversity the best reaction it to push back in the best ways we can. not have a Knee jerk reaction and bail or downplay what we do. If you do that such thing it only does more to damage and hurt the hobby and the vendors and manufactures that support it. Its not doomsday for us at all. nothing is final. Find freinds and club members that posses LEUPS find manufactures and vendors that are or can be willing to venture your way and support your launches. Maybe it just might boost us with more venders signing on reps in more areas to help with this issue. Get legal. if ya cant beat join em. It may very well be just a temporary issue but do what it takes. Gee if you were in the great big open of a lake swimming and it got rough would you quit swimming only to drown because things got crappy.. Hell no. you would fight and fight with every inch of your life. I for one will continue and continue to do the things we need to do to make our hobby not only survive but grow and flourish. So my answer is next year I have plans to fly 2 of the biggest motors I can get the chance to fly. Big N4000 and the N1100. As well as build my Talon 4 and Ultimate Endeavour and several other 54mm and up powered projects.

 

[Dan]

No but I am REALLY thinking of going into hybrid technology.

I just got an SRS 38mm motor... thread's in the propulsion forum.

 

[robfire820]

If any thing I may sell all of my hpr stuff, as is with my job situation and the audit that was done for the city I may no longer have a job by the end of the year. The process to get the Leup is out of my reach as is storage. But dont be lining up just yet for my stuff, I am going to ride this out a little longer to see what happens.

 

[constevens]

Originally posted by robfire820
If any thing I may sell all of my hpr stuff, as is with my job situation and the audit that was done for the city I may no longer have a job by the end of the year. The process to get the Leup is out of my reach as is storage. But dont be lining up just yet for my stuff, I am going to ride this out a little longer to see what happens.

I could understand leaving the hobby for a job loss or major finacial reason. But to say its due to regulation and not find a work around is crazy. As far as storage most people that think they are opted out for storage need to think again. Their are many ways of providing contingency storage. In fact storage doesnt even have to be a on site where you are at thing. Get with vendors and others with LEUPs and get them to start working together with all of those of you that cant provide storage as a contengency storage plan. in fact if clubs were to inc in a non profit they can creat a main storage somewhere and also allow other members to become perfit holders and use the same storage. Just dont let silly non thought out reasons be the cause of leaving due to the ATF garbage. LEUP is not out of reach if you just find the ways. Now a more realistic problem is the fact that the ATF is flooded with renewals and new apps and it takes some time. But thats another issue all together. I just dont want to see what I know many have worked so hard to promote and grow go down the tubes cause oif people just willing to toss in the towel.

 

[replacementdave]

Don't sell your stuff! It's paid for.

Don't forget, one good relationship with a vendor can get you a whole lot of flight services. I don't have a LEUP and don't plan on getting one but I do plan on getting more into hybrids and using flight services.

Just my opinion.

 

[MaxQ]

I haven't been doing HPR for awhile.
And this is getting ridiculous.

This is the third time I've dropped out of high power.

All due to the rulings and interpretations of one well known government agency.

First was when a local launch director in my state certified me and then gave me the documentation for a batf permit (and back then there was no such thing as vendor contingency storage).
I lived in a townhouse, and the prospect of getting a magazine approved for my "explosives" was an absurd notion.

Then there was that period when the notion of "Easy Access" was so prevalent, so I rejoined the HPR community and kind of became a BAR - 2.
It was good fun.

Then 9-11 and all the hysteria that followed to "make us safer"..

The large launch site I attended out of state issued their notice that all should "get legal"......rather than have enforcement issues ruin it for everyone.
So I had to quit again.


There was a brief respite after another spate of rule making in courts recently - then a vendor or two got brave and offered to sell H & I under an interpretation (PADS or "easy access" yet again) for on site use....but that was short lived - after the recent harrassmant of vendors began while the court case was being heard ..(you think maybe someone got sore about the judge's one ruling that went in our favor?)

So, there you have it.

You know, the public won't be safer and the hobby won't get safer if thousands of people start joining the ranks of amatuer and experimental motor makers after their access to safer commercial motors for their hobby is taken away.

You think the batf thinks about that?

 

[replacementdave]

You know, the public won't be safer and the hobby won't get safer if thousands of people start joining the ranks of amatuer and experimental motor makers after their access to safer commercial motors for their hobby is taken away.

????

 

[constevens]

Originally posted by MaxQ
You know, the public won't be safer and the hobby won't get safer if thousands of people start joining the ranks of amatuer and experimental motor makers after their access to safer commercial motors for their hobby is taken away.

You think the batf thinks about that? [/B]

So what is your factual Data to back that Ex/Research is any more dangerous then Comercial? Most dangers arent posed by the flight but yet by the recovery. In that case all flights are somewhat equal.

Once again I have been told via the TRA mailing list that tommorow more then likley a joint stament will be issued. Have patients and please dont have a knee jerk reaction. Its never needed.

 

[MaxQ]

Think it over....
I did - and this isn't a knee jerk reaction.

And I don't need another "joint statement" from anybody before posting here.

Those of you that are Am/Ex guys I'm sure won't see it that way - and that's fine ..more high power to ya.
But at my launch site last week this viewpoint i posted was one of the gripes...and it wasn't just me saying it.

People that do not have a chance of getting the LEUP will quit.
That's bad for the hobby.

And a percentage of those that won't quit and stay in HPR will resort to alternative propellants...(some may go Hybrid and that's great) but some won't and may not be the type of persons qualified to be dabbling in that kind of exprimentation.

And that's bad for the hobby as well.

What you get when you have prohibition is a rise in back yard stills.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for the relative safety of AM/Ex as compared to cert/commercial motors ...I would think TRA/NAR rules tell the story in themselves.
There is enough of a concern by the national organizations regarding Am/Ex launches to give pause here....


And as for factual data?...when did the facts ever bother anyone?
Government agencies included.

 

[constevens]

Originally posted by MaxQ
Think it over....

Those of you that are Am/Ex guys I'm sure won't see it that way - but at my launch site last week this was one of the gripes...

People that do not have a chance of getting the LEUP will quit.
That's bad for the hobby.

Just because you Cant get a leup is no reason to quit. There are many other valid and legal ways to fly if not EVERYONE can get or has a permit. I could name several solutions to what ever issues you may think there are but unfortunatly instead of doing whats right for the hobby there will be those that have the over reaction and bail or go on countless rant.For why? no reason really if you think about it. Just play by the rules and do what needs be done. It will all work out in the end im sure of it.

And those that won't quit will resort to alternative propellants...and some of them probably won't be the type of persons qualified to be dabbling in that kind of exprimentation.

And that's bad for the hobby as well.

What you get when you have prohibition is a rise in back yard stills.

Originally posted by MaxQ
And as for factual data?...when did the facts ever bother anyone?
Government agencies included. [/B]

It must bother some of us or 2 people wouldnt be questioning it.

 

[replacementdave]

So like these amatuer/ex guys?

www.xprizecup.com

 

[MaxQ]

I'm not refering to those guys...I'm referring to guys like the postal worker that blew himself up in his basement six years ago
in Illinois.

You know it only takes one of those to offset all the other good people on your website reference.

 

[deandome]

I just dont want to see what I know many have worked so hard to promote and grow go down the tubes cause oif people just willing to toss in the towel. [/B]

Hopefully it won't be a lot of that, and oddly, it's the extreme ends that are going to stay strongest; LP and big-time HP. When you have $2000-15,000 invested in the hobby...well, you're clearly a fanatic who'd gladly jump thru a few hoops AND you have the money to deal with this.

But there'll also be a lot of people like me who mid-power & Level 1 but are (were) on the cusp of going bigger.

It's not just how many people will leave HP...it's also how many people won't get into it at all.

 

[MaxQ]

And maybe he's just saying what alot of people are thinking....

One Darrell Mobley...those of you that are relativley new here may not remember him from the original Rocketry Online forum...
The second paragraph is interesting....

And I quote.......
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Safe Explosives Act of 2002 put an end to that marginally working system for in-state residents to enjoy the hobby of rocketry and, for that matter, many other fine exploits.

The only thing the Limited permit does is open the door for more individuals to leave consumer rocketry, where motors and reload kits are manufactured under industrial conditions, and transfers said individual into the realm of amateur rocketry, where they will mix and cast their own propellant under conditions less ideal, and with their new "Limited" permit, the ability to transport it. And this is helping prevent terrorism how?"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Five Years After: Are we any better off today?
Editorial by DARRELL D. MOBLEY

https://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/758/38/

 

[constevens]

Ive know Darrely for quite some time. And im not sure if you were to ask him that very statment today if he would fall suit to it though either. Things are progressing and have over the last year become very different. The ATF I belive may know we are on the heels of a victory and very well could settle out with us or it may just have to go the distance. When 2 boxers get into a ring its a fight til one is declared by 1 of 3 means. Knockout, TKO or a points based system of scoring and the fight is on till we meet one of those criteria. So until the fat lady sings we are far from over. Ive been around long enough to remember the begining of all this. I will see it through to the end. Be it good or bad. But I wont let it run me off. Just because people venture into Ex/Research doesnt mean they are doing bad or poorly with it either. People like the moron that Maxq mentions are people that didnt follow the golden rules. Hey guess what in comercial rocketry that can happen to. Hmm wonder if an accident were to happen that makes comercial rocketry less safe. no. But following the rules that exist will avoid those Duh moments we hope be it EX or Comercial.

 

[Daedalus]

Well I will be flying high power next season. I wil be flying the most complex high power I can - drop off boosters and clustering, it will be hard, expensive and fun. Hang in there, keep burning BP, AP and N2O.

The regulations in the UK are different, and still expensive, and still a pain, but we are meant to be getting some relief soon - though this is an ongoing saga for the UK. We all need to keep flying in the face of adversity to keep the hobby alive for when better times come. If we don't the hobby will be dead by the time the laws are changed. Motor manufacturers won't stay in business hoping that there will be a resurgent market in 2, 3, 10? years time - we need to fly to have a future generation of fliers.

I think JFKs speach is appropriate here "... not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win" Gaining and keeping the right to enjoy the hobby we love will be hard, and must be accepted and pressed for until a sensible solution is achieved.

 

[frankenhead]

Thanks alot guys.. nevermind I found it.

 

[WillCarney]

My L3 project is just about done and I have the M motor for it
already. No way am I giving up. I have had my LEUP for at
least 8 years and recently they (the ATF) made me get the state
permit which I did not really need till just now. Either way I am
covered till the next rule change.

William

 

[tquigg]

Originally posted by stymye
I'm pretty much staying with midpower rockets.
there is plenty of enjoyment for me at that level and alot of uncharted territory left to explore personally.

I hate that the G33 has been heavily regulated that is one of my favorite motors.

I will get off my can and get my long overdue L2 next year more to help out my club(rso ,cert witness,ect.. ) than anything else.

Cheer up Stymye. Gary is planning on coming out with a reloadable version of the G38FJ that's under 62.5 to replace the G33. Mmmmmm, yummy!

 

[FredT]

I have LEUP which I will renew this spring and continue to purchase and fly HPR. I also enjoy, and will continue to enjoy, LPR and MPR.

...Fred

 

[shreadvector]

Well. If you're already certified, you can buy lots and lots of 62.5 gram motors and CLUSTER.

With HPR certification you could even fly a rocket that uses a case of D12 or E9 motors for one flight.

It's an option.

 

[afterburner]

If anyone wants to leave the hobby, I can offer a good home for all your rockets and hardware for free.