# Which black powder for dual deployment?

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#### RocketTree

##### Well-Known Member
Can you guys tell me which black powder is used for dual deployment from the following links?

I don't see FFFF.

It has to be ordered and shipped, so please let me know exactly.

Winchester Powder

Alliant

Goex

Hodgdon

IMR

and theres more...

Last edited:

#### timbucktoo

##### Well-Known Member
Staff member
TRF Supporter
Global Mod
You want Goex 4F
Try Graff & sons.

#### Banzai88

##### Lvl 1,Wallet....Destroyed
TRF Supporter
Midway USA also has Goex black powder. 4F is preferred, 3F will work as well.

#### HHaase

##### Siegecraft Electronics
The GOEX black powder is what you want to use. Most people suggest the FFFFg. The more F's, the finer the grind, and the faster the burn rate. Commercial motors use the FFFFg. One pound will last you a long time. I'm currently using FFg because it was all I could get at the time, and it's also been working fine for me. Finding a place to ship it may be difficult.

Just NEVER use a 'smokeless' powder, ever, under any circumstances. They have far too high of a burn rate and would be dangerous and ineffective for rocket deployment.

#### RocketTree

##### Well-Known Member
The GOEX black powder is what you want to use. Most people suggest the FFFFg. The more F's, the finer the grind, and the faster the burn rate. Commercial motors use the FFFFg. One pound will last you a long time. I'm currently using FFg because it was all I could get at the time, and it's also been working fine for me. Finding a place to ship it may be difficult.

Just NEVER use a 'smokeless' powder, ever, under any circumstances. They have far too high of a burn rate and would be dangerous and ineffective for rocket deployment.
Very good information! Thanks

#### Zeus-cat

##### Well-Known Member
You want to avoid Pyrodex, it is a black powder substitute. It can be made to work, but you have to do some extra stuff.

#### Buzzard

##### Well-Known Member

Aerotech sells a 12 pack of ejection charges. Yes, it is a lot cheaper to buy a pound of 4F black powder, but these are available for order and will probably all you will need for many flights. I have a pack and use them to augment starters or ejection charges.

Chas

#### RocketTree

##### Well-Known Member

Aerotech sells a 12 pack of ejection charges. Yes, it is a lot cheaper to buy a pound of 4F black powder, but these are available for order and will probably all you will need for many flights. I have a pack and use them to augment starters or ejection charges.

Chas
This is only available within USA. Otherwise great suggestion.

#### Bat-mite

##### Rocketeer in MD
I don't know gun laws in Canada, but what I did here in the states was look up local gun stores and call around until I found a store that sells FFFFg. That being said, I only found one store, and it is not super close to home. But I only go there for powder once every three years or so.

#### prfesser

The GOEX black powder is what you want to use. Most people suggest the FFFFg. The more F's, the finer the grind, and the faster the burn rate. Commercial motors use the FFFFg. One pound will last you a long time. I'm currently using FFg because it was all I could get at the time, and it's also been working fine for me. Finding a place to ship it may be difficult.

Just NEVER use a 'smokeless' powder, ever, under any circumstances. They have far too high of a burn rate and would be dangerous and ineffective for rocket deployment.
Convert 2F powder to 4F with a couple small pieces of hardwood, like oak. Just grind the grains between the pieces of wood until the size of sand grains. Or use the back of an old spoon and a piece of hardwood. A little at a time. Be aware that this will negate the effect of the coating on the grains, and may make them absorb moisture more readily. Larger grains like 2F may work but you're more likely to see holes in the chute, the burning particles travel farther before they're done burning.

Smokeless powder is ineffective because it has a very high burn rate exponent. It burns quite slowly at atmospheric pressure. Increase the pressure and the burn rate skyrockets. Since the ejection charge is more or less at atmospheric pressure...A Bad Thing.

Best --Terry

#### Mike Haberer

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
You want Goex 4F
Try Graff & sons.
Graf & Sons currently has a 4 LB minimum for shipment. Midway USA will still sell 1 LB.

#### Rocketjunkie

Looks like Cabellas/Bass Pro still carries it in the stores in Canada. You want FFFFg, used for the flash pans of flint lock muzzle loaders. Find the nearest store to you, hopefully not too far.

dlb

#### Johnly

##### Well-Known Member
Smokeless powder is ineffective because it has a very high burn rate exponent. I
Best --Terry
This is why I like your advice, technically correct terms. None of the poof. fizzle vs. big bang hand waving discriptors.
We need a time to get together again and look back over the past decades and what the future holds.
Hope you're finding "retirement life" enjoyable.
Now to see how far Murry is from Huntsville....

John

#### RocketScott

TRF Supporter
I picked up a jug today at the local muzzleloading supply store. 1lb was $32 Bass Pro lists it in their website but says it’s not available to order. It also doesn’t tell you what the price is or if the store has it in stock. You have to call I’d rather give the mom and pop store the business anyway. Even if it’s a bit more #### Nytrunner ##### Pop lugs, not drugs TRF Supporter This is why I like your advice, technically correct terms. None of the poof. fizzle vs. big bang hand waving discriptors. We need a time to get together again and look back over the past decades and what the future holds. Hope you're finding "retirement life" enjoyable. Now to see how far Murry is from Huntsville.... John 4 hrs as the speed limit flies. If you can wrangle the Prfessor to join us for student launch next year, I'll have him sign my copy of his book! #### Johnly ##### Well-Known Member Mine is already inscribed by Terry, with some fitting commentary. #### jbr ##### Well-Known Member you need to find a local fireworks pyro guy who makes shells, they make many pounds of BP here is some of mine, costs around$5/pound
I use it for all my deployments

#### Zeus-cat

##### Well-Known Member
Wow, that looks pretty coarse jbr. Is that 0F or -1F?

#### NateB

##### Well-Known Member
Your source must be pretty consistent or you do a lot of testing on your BP. I can make BP, but for some things that use small amounts like spolettes and ejection charges I do like the known consistency of commercial powder and the ability to consult published charts for the proper amounts.

#### jimzcatz

##### Boss, Carolina Rocket Mafia

Aerotech sells a 12 pack of ejection charges. Yes, it is a lot cheaper to buy a pound of 4F black powder, but these are available for order and will probably all you will need for many flights. I have a pack and use them to augment starters or ejection charges.

Chas

Thats a waste of money. Pyrodex pellets are the cheapest Starter enhancers available.

#### timbucktoo

##### Well-Known Member
Staff member
TRF Supporter
Global Mod
Thats a waste of money. Pyrodex pellets are the cheapest Starter enhancers available.
Yea but he’s not wanting a starting enhancer.

#### jimzcatz

##### Boss, Carolina Rocket Mafia
no, but chas mentioned he uses bp as an enhancer