Well, I have a pile of 5.5" LOC parts

[Donnager]

I have a LOC 5.5" short nose cone.
Multiple 54mm centering rings for a 5.5" rocket (including a couple with 4-29mm in them).
A set of 5.5 Wolverine fins
A set of 5.5 Magnum fins
A set of 5.5 Goblin fins
4 29mm tubes
3 38mm tubes
about 5' of 54mm MMT
Recovery hardware


Going to build a "Banhammer" that may not be entirely original. It will basically be a scratch 3 fin 5.5" Wolverine with two either Goblin or Magnum fins as wings and a long MMT for the front two "fins".

Before I get too far, trying to decide about single, DD, or other options. I'll get some pictures when I get started.

Sim is incomplete, but here's the idea.

 

[Donnager]

I may want to use 29 or 38mm tubes for wing bomblets/tanks, especially if I use the Goblin fins--just looks kind of cool...... Magnum fins don't stick out as much
I'll have wait for sim results after I have the fins properly laid out and see what actualy is buildable.

It's probably going to be DD. I have an e-bay for my 5.5 goblin that I may make interchangeable. This one will be about 8-12" longer than the sim shows.

Starting to think it may look more like a goony tomahawk, instead.

 

[cerving]

So just how much nose weight is that going to take?

 

[Rschub]

Are there any rules about not filling the nose cone with something like concrete? Asking for a friend.

 

[Donnager]

So just how much nose weight is that going to take?

Sims in the above were with a 60 oz nose cone (not entirely satisfied with half the rocket weight), but I don't believe that will be necessary when I extend it (and probably just use the magnum front fins).

Also, I really need to work out the front fins after I assemble the fin can to see what the final dimensions actually are. The wing span and location seems to need some tweaking.

Lead shot and epoxy are probably just as hard as concrete.

 

[mrwalsh85]

Are there any rules about not filling the nose cone with something like concrete? Asking for a friend.

which is heavier? 40 lbs of feathers or 40 lbs of lead?

 

[Donnager]

which is heavier? 40 lbs of feathers or 40 lbs of lead?

Pedantically, the feathers.

Avoirdupois vs Troy. If you can wrestle it out, great. If not, I'm an old idiot.

 

[Donnager]

Are there any rules about not filling the nose cone with something like concrete? Asking for a friend.

Can you be more clear?

 

[Rschub]

So, every activity has it's rules. Some are written rules, some are unwritten. Then you have the Pirate code/More like guidelines dichotomy.

So, in a world where bowling balls, and pointy metal tipped nosecones on 50 lb projectiles are allowable, where does a pound or two of concrete in a nose cone fall? Theoretically?

 

[Donnager]

Sorry about my attempts.

Donnager.

 

[Donnager]

So, every activity has it's rules. Some are written rules, some are unwritten. Then you have the Pirate code/More like guidelines dichotomy.

So, in a world where bowling balls, and pointy metal tipped nosecones on 50 lb projectiles are allowable, where does a pound or two of concrete in a nose cone fall? Theoretically?

Can you be more clear.

 

[Banzai88]

So, every activity has it's rules. Some are written rules, some are unwritten. Then you have the Pirate code/More like guidelines dichotomy.

So, in a world where bowling balls, and pointy metal tipped nosecones on 50 lb projectiles are allowable, where does a pound or two of concrete in a nose cone fall? Theoretically?

Can you be more clear.

He's asking if he can use concrete in his nose come for weight instead of more 'conventional rocket building' choices to achieve the necessary balance for safe flight.

I've seen some sketchy rocket stuff done by some sketchy 'just passing through the hobby' folks as well as 'experts been here since the beginning'......but as RSO you'd have to convince me that whatever you used was secured properly. ESPECIALLY if it was unconventional and/or quite heavy. Even then I'd probably call in several other opinions and IF it was allowed to fly, it would be heads-up from the away cell every time.

 

[Rschub]

Sorry, I seem to be humor impaired today, just ignore me.

 

[Donnager]

.

He's asking if he can use concrete in his nose come for weight instead of more 'conventional rocket building' choices to achieve the necessary balance for safe flight.

I've seen some sketchy rocket stuff done by some sketchy 'just passing through the hobby' folks as well as 'experts been here since the beginning'......but as RSO you'd have to convince me that whatever you used was secured properly. ESPECIALLY if it was unconventional and/or quite heavy. Even then I'd probably call in several other opinions and IF it was allowed to fly, it would be heads-up from the away cell every time.

You may be right, but I'm not sure.

 

[Donnager]

nm.

 

[RocketRev]

I am a huge fan of LOC 5.5 kits/parts. Big enough to get my whole arm into if necessary and no where near the weight of fiberglass. I rarely build anything less than 4" diameter anymore. Well except the occasional model rocket for fun with the grands, but hey, its my grandkids.

I have to ask, why in the world would you need that much nose weight? I might be having a hard time reading the pic of your sim. Is the motor loaded? It looks like it is to me, but I may be wrong. Even if there is no motor loaded, it won't take that much nose weight to counter the weight of the motor. Certainly no more than the weight of the loaded motor itself.

You have a 12-18" long av-bay. Use it. And I would suggest putting the parachute and its recovery harness in the section behind the nose cone in order to further move the CG forward of the CP.

Also, use the extra 54mm mmt and one more centering ring to create a "stuffer tube" in order to carry the whole aft section of the recovery harness as far forward as possible.

With the above in mind, I really don't see you needing much in the way of nose-weight.

BTW - I really like the general design. I might have to build one myself just for the fun of it.

Brad

 

[Donnager]

I have the fin can built.

There is a significant amount of overlap from the front two fins and the primary fin can. I did use Magnum front fins.

Weights needed will actually be calculated.

 

[fyrwrxz]

So, every activity has it's rules. Some are written rules, some are unwritten. Then you have the Pirate code/More like guidelines dichotomy.

So, in a world where bowling balls, and pointy metal tipped nosecones on 50 lb projectiles are allowable, where does a pound or two of concrete in a nose cone fall? Theoretically?

Down. Proven fact.

 

[Donnager]

Fin can installed and primed. A little sanding still left for a couple of boogers.

It was going to be a Blue Angel themed rocket, but I sure do like the gray. It may have to go air force.

 

[Donnager]

I am a huge fan of LOC 5.5 kits/parts. Big enough to get my whole arm into if necessary and no where near the weight of fiberglass. I rarely build anything less than 4" diameter anymore. Well except the occasional model rocket for fun with the grands, but hey, its my grandkids.

I have to ask, why in the world would you need that much nose weight? I might be having a hard time reading the pic of your sim. Is the motor loaded? It looks like it is to me, but I may be wrong. Even if there is no motor loaded, it won't take that much nose weight to counter the weight of the motor. Certainly no more than the weight of the loaded motor itself.

You have a 12-18" long av-bay. Use it. And I would suggest putting the parachute and its recovery harness in the section behind the nose cone in order to further move the CG forward of the CP.

Also, use the extra 54mm mmt and one more centering ring to create a "stuffer tube" in order to carry the whole aft section of the recovery harness as far forward as possible.

With the above in mind, I really don't see you needing much in the way of nose-weight.

BTW - I really like the general design. I might have to build one myself just for the fun of it.

Brad

The initial nose weight is a calculation, that doesn't take into account the weights of all the reinforcement in the top end of the fin can that is forward of the CP. Some of that was driven by my fin selection and where I located them.

Because of this, I changed the forward fins to a different profile with less span, and relocated them to the rear. The biggest issue is whether this will be flown as a motor or dual deploy.

The nose has been built with approximately 20 oz of added weight (18 oz steel BBs, 2-4 oz epoxy) . It may take a little more, but I will have to balance it with the heaviest motor I'm interested in, and I'm not sure additional weight is actually necessary, depending on motors I can actually fit in the model. If I use it DD, additional weight will not be necessary, depending on recovery. Additional weight is likely to be made "removable".

 

[DAllen]

I think you can buy depleted uranium for your noseweight...haha just kidding. I really like the looks of that fin can - definitely would look awesome with a Blue Angels theme paint job. Can't wait to see it finished.

 

[Donnager]

I think you can buy depleted uranium for your noseweight...haha just kidding. I really like the looks of that fin can - definitely would look awesome with a Blue Angels theme paint job. Can't wait to see it finished.

I doubt it will need a great deal more than the motor weight, but....

Placing 1.0#+ in the nose is pretty significant. More......we'll see.

It has to be balanced with the internal reinforcement as installed, and the final rocket length will have to be determined. Still working on it.

This is why I do so poorly on progress builds.

 

[cerving]

If you have a very heavy nose cone you have to consider the extra load that it places on the harness at ejection time. You better have a really long shock cord... or some really strong Kevlar and mounts.