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BABAR

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I think the helical spiral was from the slight damage that the clay suffered after the rain storm last week. A crack in the clay could cause it to spiral. I don't think it was a safety concern, but now I know. I wish I had a picture of the nozzle before the launch. It was definitely not nearly as catastrophic as the Cato. I imagine the park dept wasn't happy with it if they were watching. I need to start bringing the small fire extinguisher with us.

View attachment 449933
Hmmm. Any chance the D12-0 that CATOed may have been affected by the same rain?
 

NOLA_BAR

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That SpaceMonkey V2 is really nice! The Estes V2 is a good flying model, but obviously is not as accurate.
 

jrap330

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Yes father, son banter was funny.
 

rklapp

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if you can keep the full stack weight with payload under 113 gm, I’d say you‘re okay, but avoid windy days. Otherwise I think you should stick with 24mm mount.
I put all the parts on the scale and got 107g. With the camera, it's 125g. I just glued in the 18mm MM into the tube but haven't attached the fins. Maybe I'll make a second one with 24mm. I ordered the coupler so hopefully won't take too long to arrive.

Hmmm. Any chance the D12-0 that CATOed may have been affected by the same rain?
No, the motors that were damaged were installed in the rockets in the bin I use for transporting the rockets. I could have easily dumped out the water when I got back to the car. Like I said, mistakes were made. Not costly, just embarrassing mistakes...
 

rklapp

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I was determined to launch despite the rain.

We ventured out last evening to launch rockets in the park with my wife and son but started raining. It was breezy so called it off. This morning, the winds were lite so ventured out by myself. It's still awkward to launch and film at the same time. I need both hands so I can zoom. A rain cloud appeared, and I continued launching to defy the weather gods. This time, I tipped the bin over so it wouldn't collect rain water. Smart, right? The only issue was that the CC Express balsa NC started expanding. I was afraid it would stick so went with the Diamondback for a second time with camera.

After several months, the sanding disc on the launch plate wore out. Usually it's okay if the leads touch the disc because it's not conductive. However after the rain, I think the voltage was grounding and didn't have enough current to ignite the Drone Killer's motor so started using the mini clothes pins to keep the leads from grounding.

The Viking didn't twist at all like last time so it probably was the slight damage it received from its initial run in with rain water. I looked around the pool but couldn't find it. I still have 10 more to build in the kit. The modified MFB needs more NC weight for the C6 motors. I need to remember to add clay to all my 13 to 18mm conversions. Overall, I didn't get any more wet from the rain than I do from sweat on a typical Hawaiian day. Got the proverbial rainbow in the background with the Drone Killer.

The Diamondback has an excellent streamer. It did work better the first time. For some reason, the streamer didn't fully deploy for the second try. There was an initial bounce in the launch as it blew off the mini clothes pin then gained momentum. I'm still giving it a point for deployment since it's not a typical streamer. For the Goblin (with BT-60), I'm not sure why the altimeter showed a hiccup during accent. It didn't look like there was any motor problems.

Timeline:
00:00 Viking 2pts
01:03 Crossfire clone 4pts
02:06 Mini Fat Boy 2pts
03:27 Drone Killer 4 pts
04:32 Centuri 4pts
05:43 Diamondback 4pts
06:49 Goblin 60 - 626ft 5pts
08:40 Diamondback 4pts
09:51 Flight video
10:31 Total 29pts

 

neil_w

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After several months, the sanding disc on the launch plate wore out. Usually it's okay if the leads touch the disc because it's not conductive. However after the rain, I think the voltage was grounding and didn't have enough current to ignite the Drone Killer's motor so started using the mini clothes pins to keep the leads from grounding.
Seriously man, throw a spent D motor onto the rod to prop up the rocket above the blast plate.
 

BABAR

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I was determined to launch despite the rain.

We ventured out last evening to launch rockets in the park with my wife and son but started raining. It was breezy so called it off. This morning, the winds were lite so ventured out by myself. It's still awkward to launch and film at the same time. I need both hands so I can zoom. A rain cloud appeared, and I continued launching to defy the weather gods. This time, I tipped the bin over so it wouldn't collect rain water. Smart, right? The only issue was that the CC Express balsa NC started expanding. I was afraid it would stick so went with the Diamondback for a second time with camera.

After several months, the sanding disc on the launch plate wore out. Usually it's okay if the leads touch the disc because it's not conductive. However after the rain, I think the voltage was grounding and didn't have enough current to ignite the Drone Killer's motor so started using the mini clothes pins to keep the leads from grounding.

The Viking didn't twist at all like last time so it probably was the slight damage it received from its initial run in with rain water. I looked around the pool but couldn't find it. I still have 10 more to build in the kit. The modified MFB needs more NC weight for the C6 motors. I need to remember to add clay to all my 13 to 18mm conversions. Overall, I didn't get any more wet from the rain than I do from sweat on a typical Hawaiian day. Got the proverbial rainbow in the background with the Drone Killer.

The Diamondback has an excellent streamer. It did work better the first time. For some reason, the streamer didn't fully deploy for the second try. There was an initial bounce in the launch as it blew off the mini clothes pin then gained momentum. I'm still giving it a point for deployment since it's not a typical streamer. For the Goblin (with BT-60), I'm not sure why the altimeter showed a hiccup during accent. It didn't look like there was any motor problems.

Timeline:
00:00 Viking 2pts
01:03 Crossfire clone 4pts
02:06 Mini Fat Boy 2pts
03:27 Drone Killer 4 pts
04:32 Centuri 4pts
05:43 Diamondback 4pts
06:49 Goblin 60 - 626ft 5pts
08:40 Diamondback 4pts
09:51 Flight video
10:31 Total 29pts

Some nice shots there, especially as it looks like you had a one man operation on this.

the first streamer recovery on the Diamondback was interesting, the rocket body itself almost had a “backsliding” glide to it.

at least on the second flight, looks like Estes didn’t give you a full three seconds of delay!

again, thanks for posting these.
 

rklapp

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Some nice shots there, especially as it looks like you had a one man operation on this.

the first streamer recovery on the Diamondback was interesting, the rocket body itself almost had a “backsliding” glide to it.

at least on the second flight, looks like Estes didn’t give you a full three seconds of delay!

again, thanks for posting these.
To me, it looked like it was flying like a kite. I'm thinking of converting over to mylar streamers.

For the delay, are you referring to the streamer not fully deploying. If it had, that woulda been a wild ride for the camera. After viewing it again, I think it did deploy but the camera caused too much drag for the descent. I put a swivel in the shock cord.

Seriously man, throw a spent D motor onto the rod to prop up the rocket above the blast plate.
I like launching off the plate. It's more cinematic. However, I did have to change out the sanding disc because this one was falling apart. It comes in a pack of 10.

After the Drone Killer didn't launch, I propped up the rockets with the clothes pins so the leads don't ground to the wet disc. That's why the Diamondback did that awesome bounce before ascent.
 
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rklapp

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Many gorgeous flights on a beautiful (but humid) Hawaiian day...

While most of the mainland is covered in snow, the heat and humidity at the park was kicking my butt. I had to take a break to drink more water in the car to avoid heat exhaustion. Fortunately, it didn't rain on us today. Part of the reason why the video is longer than usual is because the rockets were taking a longer time than usual for the descent, probably due to a humid updraft of hot air.

The Viking had a C6-3 today. This was the same rocket that almost hit my son last week. This time, it was easy to follow the rocket in the clear blue sky. I'm not sure you could get a straighter flight. The Space Cruiser was mostly stable. I inserted a Qualman baffle in the BT-50 which doesn't leave room for the recovery, so I put the chute into the NC. This probably was enough the recover the rocket. Rather comical from the ground camera...

The Sidewinder coulda worked but needs more weight in the nose cone. That's the problem with the Estes Booster. To run the D12-0, more NC weight is needed but without the booster, don't want the added weight. The Spacemonkey V2 worked great on the D12-3 so tried it on the Aerotech D21-4T which uses a weird igniter. I tried following the Apogee video but didn't work so will have to figure out what I did wrong.

After losing two NC from the Odyssey, I decided to try a different one for better luck. It obviously worked and produced an awesome flight video. The Expedition worked great, but I was hoping the flight video would be more impressive. Perhaps if I placed the camera between the fins.

Timeline:
00:00 Intro
00:33 Viking 3pts
02:30 Space Cruiser 4pts
04:43 Mini Fat Boy 3pts
06:14 AIM-9 Sidewinder 1pt
07:01 SST
08:11 Flight video
09:16 V2 0pts
09:37 Odyssey 5pts
10:47 Flight video
11:44 Expedition 5pts
12:55 Flight video
13:40 SWAT 661ft 5pts
16:34 CC Express 5pts
18:15 Total 31pts

 

kuririn

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Ron, for the D21 motor, is the igniter a copper strip instead of two wires?
If so, then each side of the strip is a different polarity.
Easiest way to hook it up is to put a piece of masking tape on one side only of the strip near the end.
Put another piece of tape a little farther up on the OTHER side of the strip.
Hook a clip to each piece of tape, one clip will be contacting one side of the strip, the other clip will be contacting the other side. (The masking tape is the insulator).
Also make sure the head of the ignitor is all the way to the front of the propellant grain.
This is the old style Copperhead ignitors, they've been replaced with the Firstfire two wire ignitors.
I think that they may require 12v., I'll check and see if I can find a diagram.
Very muggy today, but a cold front is rolling in tonight. Might be chilly, IDK.
Laters.
 

kuririn

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OK, this is from the AT help page:
Igniter Questions

Q. I can't get my Copperhead igniter to light. What is wrong?

A. Do not crease Copperhead igniters. These igniters are made of a three part copper foil laminate. Creasing causes minute breaks or shorts in the copper foil and current may not reach the pyrogen (igniter) coating at the tip.

Q. How do I use a two lead ignition system with your Copperhead igniters?
A. To convert a two lead ignition system with alligator style clips to work on the Copperhead igniters: Wrap one half (jaw) of each clip with electrical tape. Place one exposed clip on one side of the igniter, and the other exposed side of the clip on the other side of the igniter.

Q. How much voltage is needed to ignite the Copperhead igniter?
A. Copperhead igniters require a minimum of 12 volts at 3 amps to function properly. Recommended battery type: 12 volt car batteries. Remember to keep them fully charged!
 

rklapp

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OK, this is from the AT help page:
Igniter Questions

Q. I can't get my Copperhead igniter to light. What is wrong?

A. Do not crease Copperhead igniters. These igniters are made of a three part copper foil laminate. Creasing causes minute breaks or shorts in the copper foil and current may not reach the pyrogen (igniter) coating at the tip.

Q. How do I use a two lead ignition system with your Copperhead igniters?
A. To convert a two lead ignition system with alligator style clips to work on the Copperhead igniters: Wrap one half (jaw) of each clip with electrical tape. Place one exposed clip on one side of the igniter, and the other exposed side of the clip on the other side of the igniter.

Q. How much voltage is needed to ignite the Copperhead igniter?
A. Copperhead igniters require a minimum of 12 volts at 3 amps to function properly. Recommended battery type: 12 volt car batteries. Remember to keep them fully charged!
Ah, I used masking tape instead of electrical. Apogee used masking tape also. However, I used two 9v batteries in series at 1.4 amps, so I'll have to jerryrig a car battery. My clips have teeth so will need to to find the old Estes clips.

 

kuririn

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You could try using the FirstFire mini or micro initiators. They will supposedly fire at 9v., don't know how many Ah is required.
The micros are what the Quest QJets come with.
Three for around 6 bucks. Probably the most economical solution.
 

BABAR

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Many gorgeous flights on a beautiful (but humid) Hawaiian day...

While most of the mainland is covered in snow, the heat and humidity at the park was kicking my butt. I had to take a break to drink more water in the car to avoid heat exhaustion. Fortunately, it didn't rain on us today. Part of the reason why the video is longer than usual is because the rockets were taking a longer time than usual for the descent, probably due to a humid updraft of hot air.

The Viking had a C6-3 today. This was the same rocket that almost hit my son last week. This time, it was easy to follow the rocket in the clear blue sky. I'm not sure you could get a straighter flight. The Space Cruiser was mostly stable. I inserted a Qualman baffle in the BT-50 which doesn't leave room for the recovery, so I put the chute into the NC. This probably was enough the recover the rocket. Rather comical from the ground camera...

The Sidewinder coulda worked but needs more weight in the nose cone. That's the problem with the Estes Booster. To run the D12-0, more NC weight is needed but without the booster, don't want the added weight. The Spacemonkey V2 worked great on the D12-3 so tried it on the Aerotech D21-4T which uses a weird igniter. I tried following the Apogee video but didn't work so will have to figure out what I did wrong.

After losing two NC from the Odyssey, I decided to try a different one for better luck. It obviously worked and produced an awesome flight video. The Expedition worked great, but I was hoping the flight video would be more impressive. Perhaps if I placed the camera between the fins.

Timeline:
00:00 Intro
00:33 Viking 3pts
02:30 Space Cruiser 4pts
04:43 Mini Fat Boy 3pts
06:14 AIM-9 Sidewinder 1pt
07:01 SST
08:11 Flight video
09:16 V2 0pts
09:37 Odyssey 5pts
10:47 Flight video
11:44 Expedition 5pts
12:55 Flight video
13:40 SWAT 661ft 5pts
16:34 CC Express 5pts
18:15 Total 31pts

Sorry you missed the video of the rocket catch, those are always fun.

had a feeling when I saw the booster on the sidewinder it was going to be an interesting flight. Most boosters on model rockets (since we don’t have gimballing motors like the orbital “real” rockets) Tend to have larger fin surface area than the sustainers. Gotta think, okay, I am adding whole motor mass well posterior to CG, need to add a lot of finnage to make up for it. Probably more to the point, the finnage on the sustainer is now not so far back from new CG, so less effective.

I enjoy your on board videos, maybe if you put a wedge between the camera and the body tube you can air the camera out a bit more, and catch less rocket and more more scenery.

Good to have your sidekick back, you guys are quite the team!
 

rklapp

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You could try using the FirstFire mini or micro initiators. They will supposedly fire at 9v., don't know how many Ah is required.
The micros are what the Quest QJets come with.
Three for around 6 bucks. Probably the most economical solution.
I'll try that. The problem with the D21 is that it only comes with one igniter so don't have another to experiment on. I recently ordered more Qjets but probably don't come with extras either. The D20-4W should work well.

I'm still wondering if I shorted the metal strips with the alligator teeth. Unfortunately, I put the motor in a safe place and can't remember where.

I enjoy your on board videos, maybe if you put a wedge between the camera and the body tube you can air the camera out a bit more, and catch less rocket and more more scenery.
In the past, the 808 keychain was pointing away from the rocket. After a few videos, they all started looking the same with the same scenery, so started using the cube camera with the unique rockets. I'm really happy with the Odyssey (after several failed attempts) but was disappointed that the Expedition looked boring. I plan to move it over next time to get more of the yellow in the shot.

Good to have your sidekick back, you guys are quite the team!
My son said the reason why he likes the jacket around his waist is because it has many many pockets but way too warm to be wearing it. I tell him about the kind words you say about our videos.
 

rklapp

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I remembered that I have an extra initiator from the Qjet B4-4FJ that died in the rainstorm. Could this ignite the D21-4T?
 

kuririn

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Only one way to find out.
Estes Sonic ignitors might work too.
I don't like them cuz the gray pyrogen easily flakes off.
 

BEC

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The FirstFire micros might work....D21s are Blue Thunder and so are pretty easy (as composites go) to light. An Estes Sonic will also work....that's really the sort of application they were designed for - White Lightning or Blue Thunder on 9V (PSII controller that has six C-cells in it).

I know that a little 9V will fire the FirstFire micros. I tried a couple that way when Q-Jets were new, just to see if they would go.

If this D21 came with a Copperhead it is quite a few years old....but Blue Thunder ages more gracefully than White Lighting.
 

rklapp

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I made a mini Executioner 24mm. I have the decals from Jimz but it doesn’t have the silver back. I can paint the silver or try to add the background to the decal. Any suggestions?

CBFD9032-8251-4C35-8EC8-F74AEF3CD8A8.jpeg
 

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kuririn

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Measure and mask and paint the silver.
Print the decal on clear (not white) decal paper.
Cut inside the lines and apply.
The decal is cut in half due to the length so you need to match up the letters.
You should be good.
EDIT: You need to downscale the print since the model is downscaled from the original.
 

rklapp

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What I have so far. I cannot figure out how to use paint.net so made it in Paint 3D. I know, heresy...

1613947781783.png
 

kuririn

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Nicely done.
But most printers cannot print silver.
It comes out as gray.
Even if they could it might not match the silver of the spray paint.
If you want the fields to match then you could spray gray instead of silver.
Or spray silver and leave the decal field clear.
Which is what I would do.
Or cut out triangles from silver monokote trim tape and apply the decals (with a clear field) over that.
I have some if you would like to try that.
 

rklapp

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The problem with painting is the trim on the triangles. I think I'm okay with grey instead of silver. I'm not even sure it is silver.

Thanks for the help.
 

neil_w

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For OR models, I've used a silver texture to simulate silver paint. It looks... decent. E.g:
1613952381989.png

I don't know how it would look printed on a decal.
 

BABAR

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neil_w

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put a clear decal Over it?
That is very doable.

Or you could spray some silver paint onto decal stock, then apply a decal over *that*. Silver-painted decal is a bit finicky, but it can be made to work.
1613955613834.png
 

BABAR

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That is very doable.

Or you could spray some silver paint onto decal stock, then apply a decal over *that*. Silver-painted decal is a bit finicky, but it can be made to work.
View attachment 451770
Seems like we’ve had this conversation...
I’m trying to remember, we’re here issues with printer ink printing over paint?
 
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