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#### Cape Byron

##### The BAR formerly known as Skippy-2
TRF Supporter
You're in Hawaii. You don't have winter. Do you have any seasons at all?
Rabbit Season and Duck Season.

#### SharkWhisperer

##### Well-Known Member
Who brought bunnies to Hawaii???? For sure they're not native. And ducks? Well ducks always surprise me. Usually when their grease starts on fire in the oven. Ducks in Hawaii? Who brought them there?

Serious though. Does weather change much there? I've been to 49 states, Hawaii the sole exception (long swim). I'm a currently-deprived scuba diver and spear fisherman from FL living in the snow, and HI is now a fantasy. I haven't rode a barracuda (or cooked one--super delicious white firm flaky fish) or stabbed a lionfish (super delicious white slightly firm flaky fish--sold in Whole Foods now, ffs) in over a year. In FL we had "perfect" season (apart from tourist invasion) most of the year and then had "soulsuckingly hot and humid" season for about 4 months, which conveniently overlapped with hurricane season. Those were my work abroad months.

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
It averages about 90 in the summer and 84 in the winter. The main difference is the height of the surf in the winter. I used to snorkel often but got tired of it. I haven't been to the beaches (or the rifle range) much this past year. I mostly spend my time in the city park launching rockets. I think there's a lot of similarities between Florida and Hawaii but no deep freeze events except Mauna Kea, et al. Tonight is 65F which is really cold when you're used to 80s all the time.

I don't see rabbits, probably because of the prolific mongoose here. At least we don't have snakes but we do have sharks. Most are friendly reef sharks that are more like dogs in the ocean. Part of the reason why I got tired of snorkeling is because I was always worried that my car would get jacked before I got out of the water.

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
Fixed several flight videos from last October

These videos were captured on the 808 style keychain camera. I converted the audio to constant rate, slowed to half speed, and half sound. Except for the Mercury Redstone which had flawed audio so I extracted the audio and sync'd with the video so runs at full speed. I've since retired the keychain and now using a cube camera. I've decided that a swivel on the shock cord at the entrance to the BT is important to creating a mostly stable decent video.

Timeline:
00:00 V2
00:54 Honest John
01:42 Mercury Redstone
02:08 AIM-9 Sidewinder
03:00 Nike-X

#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Supporter
Fixed several flight videos from last October

These videos were captured on the 808 style keychain camera. I converted the audio to constant rate, slowed to half speed, and half sound. Except for the Mercury Redstone which had flawed audio so I extracted the audio and sync'd with the video so runs at full speed. I've since retired the keychain and now using a cube camera. I've decided that a swivel on the shock cord at the entrance to the BT is important to creating a mostly stable decent video.

Timeline:
00:00 V2
00:54 Honest John
01:42 Mercury Redstone
02:08 AIM-9 Sidewinder
03:00 Nike-X

Nice.
where did you buy the camera?
is it still working well?

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
Nice.
where did you buy the camera?
is it still working well?
$30 on Amazon so nothing fancy. It started doing this thing where it would record until launch and then shut off. Could be a battery or SD card issue. I would get a Runcam2 or similar but it weighs 49g which is too heavy for my LPRs. The cube camera I have now is 17g and doesn't appear to affect the flight. What I need is a camera that's under 20g and records 1080p/60fps. Apparently, the Astrocam can play 720p/60fps. Bill said the Estes Astrocams (non kits) are on the water so should be coming ashore from China in March or so. Probably$50 for the rocket but might be worth a try...

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#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Supporter
$30 on Amazon so nothing fancy. It started doing this thing where it would record until launch and then shut off. Could be a battery or SD card issue. I would get a Runcam2 or similar but it weighs 49g which is too heavy for my LPRs. The cube camera I have now is 17g and doesn't appear to affect the flight. What I need is a camera that's under 20g and records 1080p/60fps. Apparently, the Astrocam can play 720p/60fps. Bill said the Estes Astrocams (non kits) are on the water so should be coming ashore from China in March or so. Probably$50 for the rocket but might be worth a try...
Wish they would sell just the nose cone camera. Kind of like the interceptor and interceptor E nose cones, I think there would be a market for selling them a la carte

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
Wish they would sell just the nose cone camera. Kind of like the interceptor and interceptor E nose cones, I think there would be a market for selling them a la carte
I've tried to figure out where they got the camera from but haven't found it yet.

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
Explosions, Vikings and a perfect Redstone (part 1)

Because of the excessive wind lately, this was a very productive time on a beautiful Hawaiian day. This is my longest video yet. There's so much material that I'm putting the B-roll on a separate video in part 2 shortly including the aftermath of the Cato. My knee is still healing so used a stool to sit on. Getting old sucks...

On my previous venture, I lost 3 motors to the rain including the Q-jet B4-4FJ motors. These are the first non-Estes motors I've ever bought. The second motor in the pack suffered minor water damage so wasn't sure if it would work but it did. The two Vikings came from a 12 pack I bought on Amazon Prime for the ridiculous price of \$30. I intend to use them as wind gauges. To give them a remote chance of returning to the park, I packed the NC with clay. This may have done too good of a job. Meanwhile, I'm having trouble getting the B4-4FJ out of the rocket.

Somehow the GoPro8 video for the XF-45 went missing. By the end, both cameras were running low on battery, and the GoPro3 on the ground missed the Cato. I could've launched the Odyssey but figured the cameras might crap out anyways. I rebuilt the Exocet after it was hanging at the apex of a tree for three weeks. There were several gouges in the fins, but the only broken fin was from the fall out of the tree. I lost the fin so built a replacement. The rocket had water in it for so long that the motor mount easily pulled out when I tried to remove the motor.

The second Viking was dramatic because the rocket usually gets lost of C6, except this time when it landed 6ft from my son. The SWAT launch was awesome with a spectacular flight video. It's definitely ready for an E12-4 or maybe an 8. The Spacemonkey V2 with the Apogee conversion kit worked wonderfully. I forgot the D21-4T at home but was hesitant about starting off with the bigger motor anyways. I plan to paint the NC red with silver tip.

After several failed attempts to launch the Mercury Redstone 80 for a second time, the dual deployed chutes worked perfectly. (They tangled during the first launch.) Plus I got a great flight video. For the first launch, I put the larger chute on the rocket and smaller chute on the capsule. This time, I followed the instructions but not sure if it should be the other way around. The D12-0 on the Loadstar did a Cato so will be submitting a report. I bought four D12-0 motors from the LHS. The Cato motor has the date code A031113-1 and the other three are A031113-2. The video was getting too long so I'll put the follow up at the beginning of part 2.

Timeline:
00:00 Intro
00:25 Viking B4-4FJ 3pts
01:36 Super Cruiser 3pts
02:37 XF-45 4pts
04:00 Exocet 420ft 5pts
05:23 Viking C6-3 3pts
07:23 SWAT 5pts
08:48 Flight video
09:37 V2/A4 4pts
12:28 Mercury Redstone BT-80 6pts
13:53 Flight video
14:58 Total 34pts

#### Patternflyer

##### Well-Known Member
I believe this was your best video yet! Billy’s flight was a close second though......... looking forward to Part 2.

Good thing you had a steamer and not a chute on the Viking! And probably a good thing it didn’t deploy all the way...........

#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Supporter
The chill shot at 2:53 is priceless!

weird twist in the viking still on the pad at 0:30

thanks for posting! These are a treat!

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
I believe this was your best video yet! Billy’s flight was a close second though......... looking forward to Part 2.

Good thing you had a steamer and not a chute on the Viking! And probably a good thing it didn’t deploy all the way...........
A lot of posters ask what to put in their payload bays. I often offer Billy as an example...

It helps to find the rockets when the parks dept mows the grass. The park is in the best shape I've seen it all year. Except for the occasional person throwing baseballs, we're the only ones I've seen using the park, but we're there either in the morning or evening.

The weather conditions right now are perfect. Clear blue skies, 63F, and no wind. However, I need to stay home and rest my knee so I don't have a limp when I visit clients this week.

The chill shot at 2:53 is priceless!

weird twist in the viking still on the pad at 0:30

thanks for posting! These are a treat!
The twisting is weird. It could be from the slight water damage the fins got last time causing it to twist. This was the first Aerotech for me. Could it be from the motor?

#### kuririn

##### BARGeezer
TRF Supporter
Good V2 flight. Love the Operation Sandy Hook livery.
My PMCs usually power prang or skywrite.
SpaceMonkeys and Apogee did their homework on this one.
The Viking flew straight without corkscrewing on the second flight, so maybe the QJet motor imparted a twist on the first flight?
Wondering if the CG shifted back with that motor. Is it heavier than the C6?
Loved your sons' reaction when it landed next to him.
Laters.

#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Supporter
I think the second Viking was a different Viking rocket.

the twist on the first I do not think is due to fin misalignment because the twist starts right as the rocket starts to move (before there is much airflow over the fins to cause significant lift forces.)

at first I thought it might be due to the igniter clips imparting a little “English” on it before completely coming off the motor, but it doesn’t really look like it.

I think it might indeed be a slight defect on the motor nozzle.

there’s a thread out there recently on how harmful a ballistic model rocket could be. I found your first rocket return interesting, NOT that it was a ballistic return, it performed perfectly, but apparently the nose hit just right (or just wrong), as it embedded itself pointy end first in the dirt. Certainly the dirt was probably soft to begin with, but it’s the Vikings and the other small rockets with hard plastic pointy nose cones that scare me the most. The don’t have much mass, but if they come in ballistic what mass and velocity they do have is concentrated initially over a very small surface (the point), which explains how it can penetrate through the roof of a trailer and cause some other injuries I don’t want to dwell on here.

to my knowledge the first featherweight recovery rocket (meaning “meant to come in ballistic, but so small we really don’t care) was the Mosquito, when has a “bald head” for a nose. The later Quark was a bit pointier (which I think was a bad idea) but still relatively blunt.

anyway, looks like you guys had a great time, as usual, nice rockets, great video, and great editing!

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
I half packed the NC with clay to give it a chance to land in the park. I put less in the white Viking than in the yellow Viking. Still struggling to remove the motor.

Finally pounded it out. I wanted to be sure the plastic tube didn’t eject in the air.

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#### Cape Byron

##### The BAR formerly known as Skippy-2
TRF Supporter
Good V2 flight. Love the Operation Sandy Hook livery.
My PMCs usually power prang or skywrite.
SpaceMonkeys and Apogee did their homework on this one.
Indeed. I really need to paint mine and throw it in the air.

#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Supporter
Yeah, I suspected the nose cone was weighted, which is why it went in pointy end first. I really do think that with weight added it is one of the most dangerous cones out there. Just a guess, the second Viking had no nose weight?

not sure if balsa is worse, I think the tip of balsa is more likely to break off on impact than balsa, but i have no empirical evidence.

that said, it is one of my favorite cones for BT-20 models, easily scrounged from the Viking bulk packs.

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
Yeah, I suspected the nose cone was weighted, which is why it went in pointy end first. I really do think that with weight added it is one of the most dangerous cones out there. Just a guess, the second Viking had no nose weight?
It did but not as much. I suspect the Viking is so light that at +1000 feet, it drifts away with the upper winds. I have 10 more kits in the pack so I'll just keep making more. I'm using the left over paint I've collected.

Before the Cato, there was a tube between the centering rings. The outer tube is roughed up because I used grit paper to sand out the remaining burnt parts.

#### Attachments

• 135.3 KB Views: 6

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
Explosions, Vikings, and perfect Redstone (part 2)

This is the B-roll from yesterday's launches, what I call Rocketry After Dark. Not everything went according to plan. Not a lot of action, just interaction between my son and I. The video starts with the Cato aftermath.

#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Supporter
Explosions, Vikings, and perfect Redstone (part 2)

This is the B-roll from yesterday's launches, what I call Rocketry After Dark. Not everything went according to plan. Not a lot of action, just interaction between my son and I. The video starts with the Cato aftermath.

Enjoyed the video, especially as usual the banter. I did wonder why your son looked like he was dressed for a Aussie Brave Heart audition! (Meant totally in fun, I wish I had a kid that would be as much fun and help on my launches!) The “simulated” rocket launch angling was a nice touch.

#### neil_w

##### Mr. Hot Shot Internal Fillet Guy 😎
TRF Supporter
Explosions, Vikings and a perfect Redstone (part 1)
Turquoise paint can strikes again! The Super Cruiser is a nice design.

I was struck by how the first Viking spun around the rod on the way up.

#### mbeels

##### Yes balsa
TRF Supporter
the twist on the first I do not think is due to fin misalignment because the twist starts right as the rocket starts to move (before there is much airflow over the fins to cause significant lift forces.)
I was struck by how the first Viking spun around the rod on the way up.
That was weird. The slow motion makes it look like it starts rotating just as it is starting to move, so I think I agree with Babar. I'd guess a nozzle defect of some kind.

#### David_Stack

##### Well-Known Member
Aloha Ron;

It may only be an instance of 'trompe l'oeil' brought on by the camera angle relative to the rocket/pad, and the shadows cast by the angle of the sun, but it sure looks like the yellow Wizard that took the helical route up is sitting on the pad with the body tube not aligned parallel to the launch rod (as if the launch lug were not straight along the body tube).

Since your builds are usually well done (and goodness knows you do enough of them to stay adept), I find it unlikely that the lug is not aligned correctly but the angle of the rocket does look a bit 'odd' to these eyes. Perhaps there is enough 'slop' between the inner diameter of the launch lug and the OD of the rod, coupled with the fact that the launch lug appears to be located all the way at the eft end of the body tube to allow for the perceived 'tilt'.

Assuming it is aligned along the axis, then it would credence to the other comments regarding a motor anomaly.

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
I think the helical spiral was from the slight damage that the clay suffered after the rain storm last week. A crack in the clay could cause it to spiral. I don't think it was a safety concern, but now I know. I wish I had a picture of the nozzle before the launch. It was definitely not nearly as catastrophic as the Cato. I imagine the park dept wasn't happy with it if they were watching. I need to start bringing the small fire extinguisher with us.

#### mbeels

##### Yes balsa
TRF Supporter
Well, if that little spiral helped with that unbelievable recovery, it was worth it! I never would have imagined that a Viking with a C6 would plop down at your feet like that. Wow!

Edit: NVM, two different flights, Quest B4 and Estes C6

#### neil_w

##### Mr. Hot Shot Internal Fillet Guy 😎
TRF Supporter
I think the helical spiral was from the slight damage that the clay suffered after the rain storm last week.
Ah yes, I forgot this was one of the storm-damaged motors. That would certainly explain it. If you flew that Viking again with a fresh motor and it goes straight, then that'd be your answer.

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
I have 10 more Vikings in the box to build. I originally planned to use them as wind checkers and litter the neighborhood with the rockets. The problem is that they're easy to lose track of past 500ft. I'll probably put less clay into the NC then hand them out to the kids at the LHS monthly launches. I gave away my Toe Missile last time and the kid didn't want to launch it for fear he'll lose it.

I tore the fins off the Loadstar booster since the tube suffered significant damage. I'll insert the recommended 18mm MM for both the 1st and 2nd stage. Estes is sending me a new pack of D12-0. The motor that blew is coded below. The other 3 I bought at the LHS in the two packs are coded A031113-2. Does that indicate they're from a different lot?

#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Supporter
I have 10 more Vikings in the box to build. I originally planned to use them as wind checkers and litter the neighborhood with the rockets. The problem is that they're easy to lose track of past 500ft. I'll probably put less clay into the NC then hand them out to the kids at the LHS monthly launches. I gave away my Toe Missile last time and the kid didn't want to launch it for fear he'll lose it.

I tore the fins off the Loadstar booster since the tube suffered significant damage. I'll insert the recommended 18mm MM for both the 1st and 2nd stage. Estes is sending me a new pack of D12-0. The motor that blew is coded below. The other 3 I bought at the LHS in the two packs are coded A031113-2. Does that indicate they're from a different lot?

View attachment 449956

View attachment 449957
I’d be cautious about going with the 18mm C6-0 for the booster. I think it is borderline for the full stack rocket mass. (Another exception to the rule, Estes is a great rocket company but unfortunately has a penchant for more than occasionally recommended insufficient motors and providing insufficient size stock motor mounts. Examples: Venus Probe, Exoskell, LoadStar, MIRV, debatably the recent RTF Saturn V.)

if you do go with the 18 mm C, go with a 1/2 A on the Sustainer. It will decrease your mass and increase safety margin and recovery walk if the staging is non vertical.

I’d stick with 24 mm C or D zero delay motors, at least until Estes releases the C5-0 (if ever.)

I think the D motor was a good choice, you Just had a bad D on this one.

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#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
I found out that Estes won't include the rocket in the motor warranty if I don't use one of the recommended motors. Now I'm not sure what to do. I can put the 24mm into the booster and put the heavier NC back on. I needed to order more BT55 couplers so I have some time to decide.

I downloaded the RS file from Apogee for the V2 conversion kit. I had to recreate the fin because OR doesn't like the RS fins. I entered in the overall mass and CG but it's showing as negative stability and unstable flight with D12-3 which is not what I experienced. What do I need to do with the OR file?

#### Attachments

• 130.6 KB Views: 7

#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Supporter
I found out that Estes won't include the rocket in the motor warranty if I don't use one of the recommended motors. Now I'm not sure what to do. I can put the 24mm into the booster and put the heavier NC back on. I needed to order more BT55 couplers so I have some time to decide.

I downloaded the RS file from Apogee for the V2 conversion kit. I had to recreate the fin because OR doesn't like the RS fins. I entered in the overall mass and CG but it's showing as negative stability and unstable flight with D12-3 which is not what I experienced. What do I need to do with the OR file?
See post 36

post on TRF by someone who had real problems with this is two stage motor as underpowered. It is listed on the Estes site as 79 grams, but they don’t specify the motors used for this number. 79 grams SHOULD be easily lifted by a C6-0, but I question the accuracy of the weight, and as a PAYLOADER you may be tempted to add more weight (although a cricket or small cockroach won’t make much difference, at least to the one NOT riding the rocket!)

Most multistage model rockets are prone to weathercocking because they require extra “finnage” to account for the extra motor weight in the tail. Temptation is to add nose weight, but this works against you as it potentially decreases your speed off the rod.

if you can keep the full stack weight with payload under 113 gm, I’d say you‘re okay, but avoid windy days. Otherwise I think you should stick with 24mm mount.

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