The Path to Level 1: Acquisition, Build, Test, and Certification Attempt Thread

[smstachwick]

You might think about changing the way you pack the chute. The approach shown above with the shroud lines wrapped around the canopy can either get tangled up and keep the chute from deploying or just delay chute opening long enough to cause problems. I like to fold the shroud lines into the chute and then roll it up. That gives me really consistent deployment.

Alright

I have that 30” one lying around somewhere, I’ll play around with it. The test flight didn’t deploy as fast as I would have liked, at first I thought maybe the payload section fit was a bit too tight or the ejection charge had leaked out of the cap a bit (it felt a bit loose in the charge housing).

How is the white part of the screamer retained, on the pull pin or on a separate tether? I've never used one before.

The pin pulls out a fraction of an inch and then stops. I’ve jerked it around by the clip and gotten it activated with G forces but I don’t know if ejection or deployment forces will be that strong. That’s what the test flights are for, I guess.

 

[smstachwick]

This seems to work in testing, much faster than the Burrito can unravel. I think the tricky part will be keeping it both neat and compact, avoiding tangling of two shock cords, chutes, and sets of shroud lines.

First everything is laid out nice and flat



Shroud lines folded neatly in half



Tucked into a safe-looking spot in the canopy



Canopy folded in thirds



Test:


View attachment IMG_0608.mov

Now that I’ve recovered from my dizziness I might try this a couple times just to see how reliably I can do it.

 

[smstachwick]

Obligatory portrait with the completed rocket

 

[tsmith1315]

Obligatory portrait with the completed rocket

What a fantastic, scenic photo!

What’s your timeline on the test flight?

 

[smstachwick]

What a fantastic, scenic photo!

What’s your timeline on the test flight?

First test flight has been completed prior to decals and scale details, I think I posted the YouTube video. If not, shame on me!

EDIT: I actually posted the file, it’s on the last page.

Further tests and certification attempt anticipated at Holtville Havoc on November 4.

 

[smstachwick]

Even before it’s done the certification attempt, I’m finding myself growing fond of the Astrobee D design.

@Absouloot has a MicroMaxx one, I’ve just stumbled across a 13mm one and now I’m drooling over both.

https://www.asp-rocketry.com/ecommerce/Micro-Astrobee-D-Model-Rocket-Kit.cfm?item_id=3428&parent=8
https://www.asp-rocketry.com/ecomme...t-Kit-13mm-Version-.cfm?item_id=3459&parent=8
I’m also more appreciating the effort that went into the design and production of my 2.6” kit. Every perceived shortcoming, error, or confusion has turned out to be mine, and an excellent learning opportunity.

 

[Absouloot]

Even before it’s done the certification attempt, I’m finding myself growing fond of the Astrobee D design.

@Absouloot has a MicroMaxx one, I’ve just stumbled across a 13mm one and now I’m drooling over both.

https://www.asp-rocketry.com/ecommerce/Micro-Astrobee-D-Model-Rocket-Kit.cfm?item_id=3428&parent=8
https://www.asp-rocketry.com/ecomme...t-Kit-13mm-Version-.cfm?item_id=3459&parent=8
I’m also more appreciating the effort that went into the design and production of my 2.6” kit. Every perceived shortcoming, error, or confusion has turned out to be mine, and an excellent learning opportunity.

I should bring that out the MicroMaxx for HAVOC!

 

[smstachwick]

I should bring that out the MicroMaxx for HAVOC!

Please do!

A MicroMaxx and G74 drag race is exactly the kind of ridiculous I’d like to see.

 

[smstachwick]

I did do a little bit more work last night and today, testing the camera payload (it works!) and printing/filling out my information on the certification packet. Ever the pessimist, I did two.

The remaining F67W is installed in the motor mount and the camera, along with the SD card and adapter, are stowed safely in a plastic bag inside the payload section. I’ll likely do some consolidation and packing for Havoc tonight.

 

[Absouloot]

Well... I put it into Beast Mode last night to push through to get the Zephyr completed. I think I am suppose to let paint dry before putting on decals! It isn't going to win a beauty contest, but I am confident she will fly! Off to HAVOC tomorrow!

 

[NTP2]

I did do a little bit more work last night and today, testing the camera payload (it works!) and printing/filling out my information on the certification packet. Ever the pessimist, I did two.

The remaining F67W is installed in the motor mount and the camera, along with the SD card and adapter, are stowed safely in a plastic bag inside the payload section. I’ll likely do some consolidation and packing for Havoc tonight.

Well... I put it into Beast Mode last night to push through to get the Zephyr completed. I think I am suppose to let paint dry before putting on decals! It isn't going to win a beauty contest, but I am confident she will fly! Off to HAVOC tomorrow!

Good luck

 

[smstachwick]

Good luck

 

[NTP2]

View attachment 613202

Ok good preparation then.

 

[86mustang408w]

Had my cert flight yesterday. Freak thing happened and the motor ejected about 2 seconds or so in, lol. Putting thin CA inside of the top of the body tube saved it from a worse zipper.

 

[smstachwick]

Had my cert flight yesterday. Freak thing happened and the motor ejected about 2 seconds or so in, lol. Putting thin CA inside of the top of the body tube saved it from a worse zipper.

My flight was not as kind. At least Mindy got a good picture before flight (she’s channeling her inner Neil Armstrong here to get her reflection in my sunglasses).



The F67-4 got it up and separated OK, but the chutes got stuck in the tube and the rocket is basically ruined (but with many components salvageable). Video incoming once I get it edited down.

Crashing a large, pretty rocket like this comes with lots of free advice, which I have evaluated to form a plan.

I concluded that the enlarged booster chute AND the stock payload bay chute could not pull out of the booster while the payload bay was light and empty. I also packed the chutes in a new manner that I’m not as practiced in. John Pacente of TRASD, DART, and VSWR also speculated that the ejection charges for G and H motors might be more appropriately sized for this rocket. I’m open to corrections and I’ll do some homework on this but I can follow the logic there.

Another attendee’s suggestion (whose name I can’t recall at this point) to install a stuffer tube will likely go unused, with Fs being taken off the menu for this rocket instead.

The rebuild will be a single, further enlarged, much more tightly-packed chute with the rocket recovering in one piece. I’m OK with my Estes Burrito wraps taking a little longer to unfurl if they can slide out of the tube freely. I will also be flying the payload section either with my camera and housing installed, or with equivalent ballast.

I also got a hot tip from @fyrwrxz to buy replacement tubes from BMS. He was also kind enough to offer some Fin-Lok units, as the fin detachments had damaged the ones I have installed.

John Pacente opined that despite this failure, the rocket overall seemed to be an OK design. He suggested that I get another one together, get it done ugly if I must, and go for the certification without messing around.

I’ve been thinking about this and I’ve decided that I agree. At a well-organized high-power event with a positive safety culture, the most extreme probable risk I’m taking on any given flight is the destruction of a rocket. The range reminded me yesterday that I take this risk on any new rocket, whether it be powered by an F or by an H, but only the H motor can earn a certification. Therefore the reward better balances the risk with the H motor.

My next task is to cut out/remove the undamaged components and order some new tubes.

Undamaged components include:

• Nose
• Antenna shoes
• Rail guides (simulated and real)
• Bulkhead
• Coupler
• Screw eyes
• Parachutes
• Shock cords
• Labyrinth gas cooling system/aft shock cord attachment point
• Centering rings
• Fins
• Motor retention system

Components I will replace prior to certification include:

• Forward and aft body tubes (punctured, compressed, and torn in various places)
• Fin-Lok tabs (damaged by fin detachment)
• Motor mount tube (will likely need to attack this to redo the Fin-Loks).

I will defer installation of cosmetics at this time.

 

[bad_idea]

Packing problems come to us all. I lawndarted a new rocket this summer on its first flight because I didn't pack tightly or carefully enough; I'd mostly been flying larger and smaller rockets in the few months beforehand, and I didn't take the time to get into the mode of packing for the in-between diameter of the debutante. (Although not a panacea, pistons help, but that build didn't have enough room for one. I keep meaning to try sabots instead.)

Sounds like you have a good plan, including BMS for tubes. I will say that if decoration is important to you, you might be happier to cert with the rocket back to all its glory, not merely rebuilt. I saw a fellow lose a beautifully-finished 4" rocket on his L1 a few years ago when main came out at apogee and the rocket caught a thermal. Six weeks or so later he flew a successful L1 on an exact twin of that rocket, lovely paint and finish and all.

My thoughts are 1) you identified the one factor most likely to kill your flight, and you'll remedy it, and 2) you put a ton of work into finishing this rocket because the finish was important to you. Ergo, I think you should put as much work into finishing the rebuild, and you should have high confidence of success on its next flight.

But that's just my notion, feel free to disreagard. My username probably tells you how much weight to give my ideas.

 

[86mustang408w]

My flight was not as kind. At least Mindy got a good picture before flight (she’s channeling her inner Neil Armstrong here to get her reflection in my sunglasses).

View attachment 613818

The F67-4 got it up and separated OK, but the chutes got stuck in the tube and the rocket is basically ruined (but with many components salvageable). Video incoming once I get it edited down.

Crashing a large, pretty rocket like this comes with lots of free advice, which I have evaluated to form a plan.

I concluded that the enlarged booster chute AND the stock payload bay chute could not pull out of the booster while the payload bay was light and empty. I also packed the chutes in a new manner that I’m not as practiced in. John Pacente of TRASD, DART, and VSWR also speculated that the ejection charges for G and H motors might be more appropriately sized for this rocket. I’m open to corrections and I’ll do some homework on this but I can follow the logic there.

Another attendee’s suggestion (whose name I can’t recall at this point) to install a stuffer tube will likely go unused, with Fs being taken off the menu for this rocket instead.

The rebuild will be a single, further enlarged, much more tightly-packed chute with the rocket recovering in one piece. I’m OK with my Estes Burrito wraps taking a little longer to unfurl if they can slide out of the tube freely. I will also be flying the payload section either with my camera and housing installed, or with equivalent ballast.

I also got a hot tip from @fyrwrxz to buy replacement tubes from BMS. He was also kind enough to offer some Fin-Lok units, as the fin detachments had damaged the ones I have installed.

John Pacente opined that despite this failure, the rocket overall seemed to be an OK design. He suggested that I get another one together, get it done ugly if I must, and go for the certification without messing around.

I’ve been thinking about this and I’ve decided that I agree. At a well-organized high-power event with a positive safety culture, the most extreme probable risk I’m taking on any given flight is the destruction of a rocket. The range reminded me yesterday that I take this risk on any new rocket, whether it be powered by an F or by an H, but only the H motor can earn a certification. Therefore the reward better balances the risk with the H motor.

My next task is to cut out/remove the undamaged components and order some new tubes.

Undamaged components include:

• Nose
• Antenna shoes
• Rail guides (simulated and real)
• Bulkhead
• Coupler
• Screw eyes
• Parachutes
• Shock cords
• Labyrinth gas cooling system/aft shock cord attachment point
• Centering rings
• Fins
• Motor retention system

Components I will replace prior to certification include:

• Forward and aft body tubes (punctured, compressed, and torn in various places)
• Fin-Lok tabs (damaged by fin detachment)
• Motor mount tube (will likely need to attack this to redo the Fin-Loks).

I will defer installation of cosmetics at this time.

You flew that with an F67!?

 

[86mustang408w]

My flight was not as kind. At least Mindy got a good picture before flight (she’s channeling her inner Neil Armstrong here to get her reflection in my sunglasses).

View attachment 613818

The F67-4 got it up and separated OK, but the chutes got stuck in the tube and the rocket is basically ruined (but with many components salvageable). Video incoming once I get it edited down.

Crashing a large, pretty rocket like this comes with lots of free advice, which I have evaluated to form a plan.

I concluded that the enlarged booster chute AND the stock payload bay chute could not pull out of the booster while the payload bay was light and empty. I also packed the chutes in a new manner that I’m not as practiced in. John Pacente of TRASD, DART, and VSWR also speculated that the ejection charges for G and H motors might be more appropriately sized for this rocket. I’m open to corrections and I’ll do some homework on this but I can follow the logic there.

Another attendee’s suggestion (whose name I can’t recall at this point) to install a stuffer tube will likely go unused, with Fs being taken off the menu for this rocket instead.

The rebuild will be a single, further enlarged, much more tightly-packed chute with the rocket recovering in one piece. I’m OK with my Estes Burrito wraps taking a little longer to unfurl if they can slide out of the tube freely. I will also be flying the payload section either with my camera and housing installed, or with equivalent ballast.

I also got a hot tip from @fyrwrxz to buy replacement tubes from BMS. He was also kind enough to offer some Fin-Lok units, as the fin detachments had damaged the ones I have installed.

John Pacente opined that despite this failure, the rocket overall seemed to be an OK design. He suggested that I get another one together, get it done ugly if I must, and go for the certification without messing around.

I’ve been thinking about this and I’ve decided that I agree. At a well-organized high-power event with a positive safety culture, the most extreme probable risk I’m taking on any given flight is the destruction of a rocket. The range reminded me yesterday that I take this risk on any new rocket, whether it be powered by an F or by an H, but only the H motor can earn a certification. Therefore the reward better balances the risk with the H motor.

My next task is to cut out/remove the undamaged components and order some new tubes.

Undamaged components include:

• Nose
• Antenna shoes
• Rail guides (simulated and real)
• Bulkhead
• Coupler
• Screw eyes
• Parachutes
• Shock cords
• Labyrinth gas cooling system/aft shock cord attachment point
• Centering rings
• Fins
• Motor retention system

Components I will replace prior to certification include:

• Forward and aft body tubes (punctured, compressed, and torn in various places)
• Fin-Lok tabs (damaged by fin detachment)
• Motor mount tube (will likely need to attack this to redo the Fin-Loks).

I will defer installation of cosmetics at this time.

I wish you luck man. I really overbuilt mine, I dont have good luck. Being that it didn't come down in pieces, I was extremely happy. And they said that was a testament to how it was bullt which is why he gave me the cert. That zipper is the only damage from what I thought was coming down in pieces.

I started back in 1990, its been a few years of building and launching that helped. Got back into this this past May and haven't launched in over 10 years. Matter a fact had nothing in May and for an Alpha II kit and A/B motors.. But got a small kit and bullt some low, then mid all using high power techniques. Can I ask why you chose an F67?

 

[boatgeek]

My flight was not as kind. At least Mindy got a good picture before flight (she’s channeling her inner Neil Armstrong here to get her reflection in my sunglasses).

View attachment 613818

The F67-4 got it up and separated OK, but the chutes got stuck in the tube and the rocket is basically ruined (but with many components salvageable). Video incoming once I get it edited down.

Crashing a large, pretty rocket like this comes with lots of free advice, which I have evaluated to form a plan.

I'm sorry this happened to you. One more bit of free advice...

I concluded that the enlarged booster chute AND the stock payload bay chute could not pull out of the booster while the payload bay was light and empty. I also packed the chutes in a new manner that I’m not as practiced in. John Pacente of TRASD, DART, and VSWR also speculated that the ejection charges for G and H motors might be more appropriately sized for this rocket. I’m open to corrections and I’ll do some homework on this but I can follow the logic there.

I found (the hard way) that I needed to add a little bit of BP to the ejection charge on 29mm motors when flying them in a long-ish 3" tube. I can look up the exact amount I add if desired, but the end goal is to make the ejection charge more or less the same as a 38mm motor. I had the same failure mode as you: rocket separated but parachute not quite out of the tube. My premise was that the ejection charge didn't quite have enough oomph in the higher volume tubes.

Good luck for next time!

 

[smstachwick]

You flew that with an F67!?

I think it simmed out to about 500 ft or so with an appropriate delay. It got off the pad pretty confidently.

The original sims of this rocket indicated an E28 would be safe (if uncomfortable). That ended up going out the window when the kit was completed and I weighed it. I think liftoff mass ended up being in the 900g region, a bit heavier than the sim file I found.

Part of the reason it looks way too big for that motor is the fact that the pad is so far off the ground. Also my feet are out of frame, downplaying my own height in favor of the rocket’s.

In reality it’s about 5’7” tall or so and the high fineness ratio cuts down on drag. The biggest thing keeping it down is the heavy plastic fins. No electronics or payload of any kind on this flight (unless you count the cosmetic details).

I have a pair of G74Ws I had intended to use at either DART or Havoc (but my packing job obviously had other plans). They’ll keep it under 1000, which is the ceiling at DART. Approaching or exceeding that means you’re going swimming.

I'm sorry this happened to you. One more bit of free advice...

I found (the hard way) that I needed to add a little bit of BP to the ejection charge on 29mm motors when flying them in a long-ish 3" tube. I can look up the exact amount I add if desired, but the end goal is to make the ejection charge more or less the same as a 38mm motor. I had the same failure mode as you: rocket separated but parachute not quite out of the tube. My premise was that the ejection charge didn't quite have enough oomph in the higher volume tubes.

Good luck for next time!

I had wondered about adding BP and that looks all but confirmed. The stuff can be hard to find in California and I don’t have a low-explosives user permit but maybe one of the Holtville guys would be willing to make a few grams available “under the table” for one flight.

 

[kjhambrick]

Shane --

Not to beat a dead horse but ...

I don't know if anyone referenced Bob Sanford's post over in the recent 1 gram is not enough for deployment of 2 shoots on Astrobee-D Thread.

Chute Packing order does matter !

-- kjh

p.s. I still have my Astrobee D fin can after it crashed at Ocitillo -- it can be rebuilt and I imagine your can too !

 

[smstachwick]

Shane --

Not to beat a dead horse but ...

I don't know if anyone referenced Bob Sanford's post over in the recent 1 gram is not enough for deployment of 2 shoots on Astrobee-D Thread.

Chute Packing order does matter !

-- kjh

p.s. I still have my Astrobee D fin can after it crashed at Ocitillo -- it can be rebuilt and I imagine your can too !

Bob was kind enough to reach out with some assistance via DM and he made sure to emphasize this. I also found it referenced in the instructions. I did make sure to pack in the correct order, nose chute goes in the tube first!

He’s popped into this thread every now and then with insight into the kit’s design process. So far he hasn’t been wrong. All bets appear to be off though when I go adjusting and customizing things!

Sadly I haven’t connected with him on the range (or if I have, I didn’t know or just forgot).

 

[4regt4]

I had wondered about adding BP and that looks all but confirmed. The stuff can be hard to find in California and I don’t have a low-explosives user permit but maybe one of the Holtville guys would be willing to make a few grams available “under the table” for one flight.

I always pull the ejection charge plug on the AT single use motors. There is supposedly (as reported by ?someone? here) 0.7g of BP in the 29mm motors, but I often measure as little as 0.45g. I had an F67 that barely pushed out the plug on ejection once. It was still in the end of the motor, just tilted a bit in it's bore. (Rocket was small, so it did deploy OK .... barely). I adjust the charge usually to 0.65g and haven't had an issue since.

Hans.

 

[boatgeek]

I had wondered about adding BP and that looks all but confirmed. The stuff can be hard to find in California and I don’t have a low-explosives user permit but maybe one of the Holtville guys would be willing to make a few grams available “under the table” for one flight.

You can buy a pound from Chris Short (which is an awful lot!) and amortize the hazmat fee with a couple more motors. I added something like 1/4 teaspoon to my 29mm motors, so I'm sure you could get that from a local. I'm not sure what the CA legal requirements are for BP.

 

[86mustang408w]

I think it simmed out to about 500 ft or so with an appropriate delay. It got off the pad pretty confidently.

The original sims of this rocket indicated an E28 would be safe (if uncomfortable). That ended up going out the window when the kit was completed and I weighed it. I think liftoff mass ended up being in the 900g region, a bit heavier than the sim file I found.

Part of the reason it looks way too big for that motor is the fact that the pad is so far off the ground. Also my feet are out of frame, downplaying my own height in favor of the rocket’s.

In reality it’s about 5’7” tall or so and the high fineness ratio cuts down on drag. The biggest thing keeping it down is the heavy plastic fins. No electronics or payload of any kind on this flight (unless you count the cosmetic details).

I have a pair of G74Ws I had intended to use at either DART or Havoc (but my packing job obviously had other plans). They’ll keep it under 1000, which is the ceiling at DART. Approaching or exceeding that means you’re going swimming.


I had wondered about adding BP and that looks all but confirmed. The stuff can be hard to find in California and I don’t have a low-explosives user permit but maybe one of the Holtville guys would be willing to make a few grams available “under the table” for one flight.

I was just curious thank you. I simmed my 29mm SBB thats about 500g, with an E9-4 it showed an Apogee of 200 and some. It would have been a successful flight had the motor not failed to eject. I rebuilt it and did a few other things then out it up again on a F23-4FJ, OR said 758ft for Apogee it was probably close but flew great and landed about 20 feet from me, 100 from the pad. I expected you were going to fly that on a H motor? That's why I was confused when you said it was an F...

Either way sorry, how did your chutes get stuck again? I'm really happy with this chute stop and eyelet I put in the middle. It took a hell of a hit, it all did, and came down smiling. When the guy holding the mic to the PA system goes to events all over the country(pretty sure he is an L3), says separation....Things run thru your mind. But I kept cool, I was expecting the unexpected...

 

[NTP2]

You can buy a pound from Chris Short (which is an awful lot!) and amortize the hazmat fee with a couple more motors. I added something like 1/4 teaspoon to my 29mm motors, so I'm sure you could get that from a local. I'm not sure what the CA legal requirements are for BP.

I have a contact in rural NC for mine

 

[86mustang408w]

Bob was kind enough to reach out with some assistance via DM and he made sure to emphasize this. I also found it referenced in the instructions. I did make sure to pack in the correct order, nose chute goes in the tube first!

He’s popped into this thread every now and then with insight into the kit’s design process. So far he hasn’t been wrong. All bets appear to be off though when I go adjusting and customizing things!

Sadly I haven’t connected with him on the range (or if I have, I didn’t know or just forgot).

I watched an Apogee video on YouTube on how to pack the chute a few times and the other night for HP. And a few other guys especially Braden that does RocketVlogs on YT. Practiced it a coupler of times and got the NC fit right too. Then ran some things thru my head about if anything happened how I want the recovery gear to respond and where the chute should be on the quiclink, etc.. I'm really glad I did.

I think it simmed out to about 500 ft or so with an appropriate delay. It got off the pad pretty confidently.

The original sims of this rocket indicated an E28 would be safe (if uncomfortable). That ended up going out the window when the kit was completed and I weighed it. I think liftoff mass ended up being in the 900g region, a bit heavier than the sim file I found.

Part of the reason it looks way too big for that motor is the fact that the pad is so far off the ground. Also my feet are out of frame, downplaying my own height in favor of the rocket’s.

In reality it’s about 5’7” tall or so and the high fineness ratio cuts down on drag. The biggest thing keeping it down is the heavy plastic fins. No electronics or payload of any kind on this flight (unless you count the cosmetic details).

I have a pair of G74Ws I had intended to use at either DART or Havoc (but my packing job obviously had other plans). They’ll keep it under 1000, which is the ceiling at DART. Approaching or exceeding that means you’re going swimming.


I had wondered about adding BP and that looks all but confirmed. The stuff can be hard to find in California and I don’t have a low-explosives user permit but maybe one of the Holtville guys would be willing to make a few grams available “under the table” for one flight.

Oh hey I watched an Apogee video on YouTube on how to pack the chute a few times the other night for HP rockets. And a few other guys especially Braden that does RocketVlogs on YT. Practiced it a couple of times and got the NC fit right too. Then ran some things thru my head about if anything happened how I want the recovery gear to respond and where the chute should be on the quiclink in relation to each shock cord and the chute protector, etc..I'm really glad I did. If you have time check out some of those videos too, it helped me.

 

[tsmith1315]

I had wondered about adding BP and that looks all but confirmed. The stuff can be hard to find in California and I don’t have a low-explosives user permit but maybe one of the Holtville guys would be willing to make a few grams available “under the table” for one flight.

I’m not sure about CA, but these could be an option:

https://www.buyrocketmotors.com/ejection-charge-kit-12-pack/

 

[smstachwick]

I’m not sure about CA, but these could be an option:

https://www.buyrocketmotors.com/ejection-charge-kit-12-pack/

That might be my ticket. They look premeausred and ready to go. I wonder if my kitchen scale can measure tenths of a gram.

I’ll look around for the existing ejection charge specs, I’ve seen them come up here for various motors and I’d be shocked if nobody has posted them for the motors I have. The H flight will be the next but safe F and G flights afterwards would be amazing.

Regarding chute packing: I think one mistake I made was folding the chute in thirds like an Estes chute instead of rolling it as suggested by @boatgeek. Doing that with the lines tucked sounds like a good compromise between compactness and deploy speed. Maybe my Star Orbiter can make one last fling with the 22” chute and test that out.

 

[kjhambrick]

Shane --

As for weighing 4F BP ... I've never actually weighed my charges.

As a 'retired' muzzleloader, I learned to measure BP by volume.

Example: Traditions Black Powder Measure 5 to 45 Grains Brass

At about 15 grains per gram and given the ball-size of 4F, it's real easy to measure consistent weights by volume ...

HTH ...

-- kjh