Saturn V from Arkansas [Estes #2157]

Discussion in 'Scale' started by Crawf56, Feb 2, 2019.

Help Support The Rocketry Forum by donating:

  1. Feb 11, 2019 at 12:11 AM #61

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    Working on the plastic wraps. Using 3M 77 spray adhesive.

    m_IMG_3962small.jpg
     
  2. Feb 11, 2019 at 12:29 AM #62

    Luzwingnut

    Luzwingnut

    Luzwingnut

    "Everyday... a new adventure!" TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2019
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    9
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Palestine, Texas
    Crawf56, you're doing an impressive job. Thoroughly enjoying your build. Very instructive.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019 at 1:09 AM
  3. Feb 11, 2019 at 1:38 AM #63

    afadeev

    afadeev

    afadeev

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2017
    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    78
    Yeah, I had that happen plenty of times.
    Sometimes, you can still peel the parts apart with minimal damage, but other times, they are set for good.

    Now the real question is: how well does the plastic wrap fit over the paper cone?
    And how much of a "lip" does the plastic wrap create?

    It's even simpler then that - without enough of a "lip" created by paper shroud + plastic wrap, the forward end / "3rd stage" of the rocket would just slide down into the main airframe.
    That will really ruin the look of the rocket, and is likely not what neither you, nor Estes want.

    So, what to do without much of a "lip" from paper conical shroud?
    Perhaps, you can push the plastic wrap out a bit more to create more of a "lip", and then fill the gap between plastic and paper wraps with thick CA (to strengthen the exposed edge of the plastic wrap)?

    Fair point, I'm trying as well, though I keep catching myself wondering where the 2nd stage went ;-)
     
  4. Feb 11, 2019 at 4:47 AM #64

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    Putting the plastic wraps on:

    m_IMG_3964small.jpg


    m_IMG_3965small.jpg
     
    Luzwingnut likes this.
  5. Feb 11, 2019 at 4:50 AM #65

    kuririn

    kuririn

    kuririn

    BARGeezer TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,221
    Likes Received:
    178
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hawaii
    Nice job. I see you've got the tunnels nicely lined up, and did your homework on the adhesive. Looking good.
     
  6. Feb 11, 2019 at 5:11 AM #66

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    Thanks kuririn. And a quick assembly.

    Some days, I am a Bear of Very Little Brain (no amount of education can stop you from being stupid, at times), and I finally understand what you guys are talking about with the 3rd Stage section.

    Fortunately, there is a 3rd Stage Body Wrap Reduction [conical plastic wrap] that I can use to help save the 3rd Stage from sliding into the Main Body Tube. I might also add some stops for the 3rd Stage Section to seat against, inside the Main Body Tube.

    The 3rd Stage section and the LM [Landing Module] section are combined to become the nose cone.

    m_IMG_3968small.jpg
     
    Hey Nike, Luzwingnut and jmuck78 like this.
  7. Feb 11, 2019 at 5:13 AM #67

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    A closer look at the Nose Section (3rd & LM). Note that the conical shrouds/wraps are NOT glued yet.

    m_IMG_3970small.jpg
     
    Luzwingnut likes this.
  8. Feb 11, 2019 at 5:27 AM #68

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    And looking closer at the fit between the Main Body Tube and the 3rd Stage.

    I cut the conical paper wrap [ok, actually called the "3rd Stage Foundation Wrap"] right on the cutting line. If I did it over, I might add 1/8 to 1/4 inch to the lower/wider side of the shroud/paper/conical thingy. There is a little bit of overhang (which I am pointing to......eww, need to trim my nail).

    Any way, there is a plastic wrap that will also fit here, and allow me to add overhang.

    Man, all this 'wrap' make'n me want some Gin & Juice......:p

    m_IMG_3969small.jpg
     
    lakeroadster and Luzwingnut like this.
  9. Feb 11, 2019 at 5:48 AM #69

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    By the way, thanks for the compliments, guys. :)

    The 3M 77 Adhesive Spray is something of a "one shot" process: if you don't stick right, brother, then you stuck it wrong. :confused:

    An important part of the process is sorting out how you are going to lay your tube, in order to apply the plastic wrap. That is why you have seen a series of pics at my kitchen table, rather than at my workbench.

    After I figured out how and where to apply the plastic wrap, I took the plastic wrap outside (well ventilated), laid the wrap on some cardboard with the inner side facing up, and sprayed the 3M 77.

    Note that you are NOT supposed to immediately apply the wrap on the model. Per the 3M 77 instructions, you supposed to let the adhesive dry until it is 'tacky' (no longer wet), then apply it to the tube. The dry time is about 5 minutes, then you press it on the model.

    I got the 3M 77 at a local hardware store.
     
  10. Feb 11, 2019 at 6:00 AM #70

    Luzwingnut

    Luzwingnut

    Luzwingnut

    "Everyday... a new adventure!" TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2019
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    9
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Palestine, Texas
    Did you use pencil mark indexing while trial fitting these plastic pieces to the rocket tube for alignment prior to final attachment?
     
  11. Feb 11, 2019 at 12:41 PM #71

    JJSR

    JJSR

    JJSR

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2012
    Messages:
    617
    Likes Received:
    15
    If you don't wait that few minutes, you'll be able to move the pieces around for alignment, It'll set just as good.
     
  12. Feb 12, 2019 at 3:01 AM #72

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    Yes. One of the first things you do in construction is draw a line down the side of the Main Body Tube, and mark where the plastic wraps go. [See Post #24 in this thread.]
     
    Luzwingnut likes this.
  13. Feb 12, 2019 at 4:39 AM #73

    BBowmaster

    BBowmaster

    BBowmaster

    Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2017
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    The care and detail you’re putting into your build is impressive... and intimidating. I’m getting scared to start mine.

    I have an April deadline for Discovery Days at our 4H Rocket Club though, so I’ll likely be using this thread as secondary instructions.
     
  14. Feb 13, 2019 at 4:12 AM #74

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    A few thoughts:
    1) Get started!
    2) The Estes instructions are excellent. Pretty much all I am doing is following the instructions.
    3) Be patient. Do some work, and let the glue dry.
    And keep in mind that this is a sport scale model. A lot of the extra strengthening, modifying parts, etc., are not necessary for the basic model rocket, flying on E engines.
     
  15. Feb 14, 2019 at 5:05 PM #75

    captbk

    captbk

    captbk

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    31
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Monkey Island
    Ive been following your build and just want to say great job. Im at the same point with my build (kit #1969). Only thing I did different from the instructions is instead of spray adhesive, I used Gorilla Wood Glue on the wraps. I found there is a little time to adjust the final position of the wrap with the wood glue. Now Im at the point of attaching fins and farings and I am waiting to see how you are going to do yours. Im worried about popping fins off on landings or at the very least crushing the thin plastic fairings. It all seems so fragile at the base of the rocket.
     
  16. Feb 15, 2019 at 12:39 AM #76

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    For the fins & stuff, I am planning to use 5 minute epoxy [Gorilla Glue brand] with microballoons. The microballoons look like powder, and add a little more rigidity to the 5 minute epoxy. The microballoons also decrease the cure time, turning 5 minute epoxy into "3 minute" epoxy.
     
    captbk likes this.
  17. Feb 15, 2019 at 3:23 AM #77

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    Well, some days the bear gets you...……

    I got a bad glue joint when I made the wrap the first time. Going back with another paper splice to make it right. Which is why you should always keep scrap material. ;)

    m_IMG_3971small.jpg
     
  18. Feb 15, 2019 at 3:26 AM #78

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    OK, attaching the shroud/wrap/conic to the LM section.

    I put the 'conical reduction' on the tube, then drew a line to mark location. Took the shroud off, then put the Elmer's All-Purpose Glue on. All told in the instructions.

    m_IMG_3972small.jpg
     
  19. Feb 15, 2019 at 3:30 AM #79

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    You know, these Estes guys just may know what they are doing. :p

    Using what glue, I put a bead around the inside base of the cone (per the instructions). Then immediately slid it over the tube.

    The glue seemed to slightly soften the cone material, allowing it to slide over the top of the Lower Tube. End result was a very good fit (I hope).

    m_IMG_3973small.jpg
     
  20. Feb 15, 2019 at 3:33 AM #80

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    Also adding a center section to the 3rd Stage tube, per instructions. This is one of the center pieces, after a fair amount OD sanding.

    m_IMG_3974small.jpg
     
  21. Feb 16, 2019 at 12:25 AM #81

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    This is for afadeev: Aerotech E15-4W motors from Sirius Rocketry.

    m_IMG_3975small.jpg
     
  22. Feb 16, 2019 at 4:23 PM #82

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    OK, working on the 3rd Stage shroud/conic/wrap/reduction. Note where the glue is applied: along the lower inside of the shroud. I added the glue all the way around.

    Also, my second try at getting the seem glued correctly.

    m_IMG_3977small.jpg
     
  23. Feb 16, 2019 at 4:31 PM #83

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    Here is the shroud in-place on the 3rd Stage. I am pointing to the line that I made when I originally marked the top location of the shroud/wrap.

    After applying white glue, a immediately put the shroud over the tube, and in place.

    The white glue SOFTENED the shroud/wrap a little (at top and bottom), allowing the shroud to slide down a little (and deform a little) to make a good fit on the base of the 3rd Stage.

    NOTE: I had to use my finger nails to push against the top edge of the shroud/wrap to get it to move down that extra little bit.

    m_IMG_3981small.jpg
     
  24. Feb 16, 2019 at 4:39 PM #84

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    Something that I had forgotten, is that most (not all) Estes rockets are designed to use white glue for construction.

    The 'yellow' wood glues (such as Titebond) can be a little 'heavy' on the paper and tubes used to construct Estes rockets. In other words, the wood glues can sometimes cause model rocket components to deform, especially if too much yellow glue is used.

    I have wondered if the best glue for constructing this model is simple Elmer's white glue.

    m_IMG_3978small.jpg
     
  25. Feb 16, 2019 at 4:42 PM #85

    Matt_The_RocketMan

    Matt_The_RocketMan

    Matt_The_RocketMan

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2019
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    9
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Houston TX
    SO was it worth the money to buy this Model? I was wondering if i could purchase one.
    What would be its max altitude with those engines?
     
  26. Feb 16, 2019 at 4:44 PM #86

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    Starting work on the fins.

    Man, I really, really, really considered making these out of balsa wood or plywood. Or purchasing some aftermarket fins.

    But, to stay true to the project, I will use what I have. :confused:

    m_IMG_3979small.jpg

    m_IMG_3980small.jpg
     
  27. Feb 16, 2019 at 4:50 PM #87

    kuririn

    kuririn

    kuririn

    BARGeezer TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,221
    Likes Received:
    178
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hawaii
    I have read that when dry, white glue is as strong as yellow (wood) glue. Just that it takes much longer to "grab" and dry. So it's a better choice for paper shrouds, especially. If you had tried to slide that shroud down with your fingernail using yellow glue, it probably would have resulted in a disaster.
     
  28. Feb 16, 2019 at 4:58 PM #88

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Crawf56

    Pig Soooiiieee!! TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    65
    Yes, it is actually quite a bit of model for the money. But I would recommend the newer release [a re-release of #1969] over this model [#2157, roughly 10 years old].

    The new #1969 has injection molded fins, which means they are completely formed (I think). Hence easier to assemble, and sturdier.

    The Estes website lists the altitude with a E30-4 motor of 350 feet. It recommends a E12-4 for first launch.

    At some point, I plan to purchase an altimeter to check this model.
     
  29. Feb 16, 2019 at 5:01 PM #89

    Matt_The_RocketMan

    Matt_The_RocketMan

    Matt_The_RocketMan

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2019
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    9
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Houston TX

    How much did you get yours for and where did you purchase it? i had several great websites sent for a cheaper price than the $89 one from Estes.
     
  30. Feb 16, 2019 at 5:14 PM #90

    SecondRow

    SecondRow

    SecondRow

    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2019
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    It looks like you have an older version of #2157 with vacuform fins. Later production runs of the #2157 kit came with injection molded fins, which are much easier to put together and, from what I’ve read in this forum, hold up much better in flight. Mine came with the newer fins, and they have held up well. You can order a set of those fins from Estes. https://www.estesrockets.com/073156-saturn-v-plastic-fins
     

Share This Page